groach1234 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Well here it goes, opening myself up to some attacks i think but any way i must know these things So when i got interview by my FEO he said he personaly had taken foxes with head shots out to 100 yards with one and i have dispatched one the was wounded when they came foxing and it was a runner i found the next day. So if i was out shooting rabbits quite possibly under a lamp and a fox came along within 100 yards or less (most likely less) i wound be kicking myself for not taking the shot if it was safe. I know people do use the hmr for fox and they say take a head shot so what would be the ideal placement? between the eyes? what are your views? (helmet on for a barrage of abuse :blink: ) George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I've shot a fair few with it and 100 yards is fine, the crucial thing with the HMR is its very accurate at that range. between the eyes is good but they will stop them with chest shots, don't stretch the range and don't take shots you're unsure on as though the round will kill it may not drop them on the spot. The other thing to mention is the 20 grain hollow points go straight through foxes without putting enough energy into them to put them down straight away (with chest shots) so though they will be dead they will run a bit. Touch wood I've not wounded one with mine but its usually cubs we get with them in early summer when they're a bit naive and will come good and close easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 My personal opinion of the HMR and Fox debate is that it is possible, but far from ideal! If you really feel the need, then a boiler room shot inside 50 yards (follow a line up the back of the front leg around the joint to about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the body) can work, or a head shot (I put the vertical crosshair on the ear and the horizontal hair on the eye) is ok too but 100 is pushing it. I should add that I have stopped shooting foxes with the HMR unless they nearly walk into me. I had a few runners in a short space of time and don't think it's fair on them. I have bigger guns so just use those. For that reason I rarely take the HMR out, which is a shame because it's a wonderful bunny calibre. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 As above, have chest shoot many with the .17 hmr Vshock no problem, good practice as you have to call them in, I would like to think I keep all my shots on foxes with this round to less than 100yds, so far no wounded escapers. keep all the long range stuff for the 223 etc. I think my farmer would be very unhappy if I didnt take them out Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 if you're out on the rabbits with the .17hmr and a fox presents itself, then fine in my book. but don't specifically go after them with it, stick to CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 My personal opinion of the HMR and Fox debate is that it is possible, but far from ideal! If you really feel the need, then a boiler room shot inside 50 yards (follow a line up the back of the front leg around the joint to about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the body) can work, Similar to the kill zone on roe then? (not that i am taking them with a hmr) George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 if you're out on the rabbits with the .17hmr and a fox presents itself, then fine in my book.but don't specifically go after them with it, stick to CF. Dont worry its not a specific foxing rifle i am going to put in for a variation for .243 for fox and deer after 6-12 months and a few thousand rounds :blink: George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 My personal opinion of the HMR and Fox debate is that it is possible, but far from ideal! If you really feel the need, then a boiler room shot inside 50 yards (follow a line up the back of the front leg around the joint to about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the body) can work, or a head shot (I put the vertical crosshair on the ear and the horizontal hair on the eye) is ok too but 100 is pushing it. I should add that I have stopped shooting foxes with the HMR unless they nearly walk into me. I had a few runners in a short space of time and don't think it's fair on them. I have bigger guns so just use those. For that reason I rarely take the HMR out, which is a shame because it's a wonderful bunny calibre. :blink: realistically if you can put the bullet in an inch square which at 100 yards is perfectly possible then its no problem out to 100 yards and the Vmax rounds don't tend to exit a fox so thats a hell of a lot of energy to absorb, with the runners I would suggest they didn't get very far and is very similar to shooting deer where its usual for them to run a short way. I've had a few but I've also got a dog with me most of the time and runners don't go far, I had a few when using the 20 grain bullets on some dodgy advice, entrance and exit wounds on chest shot foxes followed by about 50 yards running then drop dead. If they made cover then without a dog you don't really know they're dead. its fine if you don't have to get rid of foxes and can afford to just shoot for pleasure but if you're on a pheasant shoot or got lambs then foxes tend to get it with whatever comes to hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 if you're out on the rabbits with the .17hmr and a fox presents itself, then fine in my book.but don't specifically go after them with it, stick to CF. :blink: Also agree with alex if you are rearing game birds or protecting livestock then foxy gets it by whatever humane means possible - that said, in that situation the fox is normally the intended quarry so the CF would be out anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 i've shot a few with 20 grain hollowpoints and not had a runner, must have just been lucky then, they do punch straight through rabbits though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Speaking to a visiting head keeper from Suffolk at our pheasant shoot on Sunday he tells me that HMR is an approved round for foxes in his county (and a perfectly appropriate one in his opinion). For long range though he favours the .22-250. If you can consistently shoot sub 1" groups at 100 yards with an HMR then what's wrong with a head shot? The ones I have shot when alone have been looking at me head on and shot through the chest. Have chosen to leave more than I have shot under these circumstances. Not had a single runner. When shooting in pairs they get one in the bolier room and another in the head simultaneously - job done :blink: Surely it's all about shot placement - hitting it in the leg with a .223 is no better than doing the same with any other smaller calibre. If you are not confident of delivering the round to the intended spot then don't squeeze the trigger - not rocket science... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Surely it's all about shot placement - hitting it in the leg with a .223 is no better than doing the same with any other smaller calibre. If you are not confident of delivering the round to the intended spot then don't squeeze the trigger - not rocket science... Innit. If you've zeroed at 100 yards, then surely this is the range that you're most confident to shoot at. I have always been apprehensive about using the HMR on fox, and so far have not. But as you lot all say it knocks em down, I'll go for it. :blink: I occasionally chest shot bunnies, when they are all hunched up at range, and the V-max punches holes straight through too. I'd have thought that the Hollow Points would make a right mess, like hollow point .22 does. I shall get a few and try them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 they're a smaller diameter so just go straight through, theres a surprising amount of energy in an HMR round couple that with a V max bullet and they pass the energy on well. Of course foxes vary in size a lot there's a big difference between taking on a cub as opposed to a full grown adult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 al4x has a good point there. When I said 100 yards was pushing it (and that's only my opinion) I was basing that on an adult Fox. If you want to shoot a half grown cub at 100 i'm sure that will work fine, they're not that big. Get a big old dog though and they will take some knocking over. If you can hold an inch group at 100 and are confident of a head shot then fine. Personally I always base my opinions on how I find the round. On a less than still day holding an inch at 100 with a HMR is tough so if you miss the brain you've possibly just shot up his face and he'll starve. I don't think it's worth the risk. It is true that if you hit a leg with a .223 the Fox will get away with nasty injuries. However, if you hit 6" back from the heart or hit the leg joint high up the .223 will still kill with ease. Hit a bone or go a bit far back with a HMR and you've got yourself a badly hurt runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Thanks all i shall keep this all in mind and i am not going out looking for Charlie but if he pops up... George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rec-baller Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 probably the reason Lancashire police won,t allow HMR for fox controll, bad shot = wounded fox shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) Years ago "when oi were a lad" foxes were always shot with a .22. Never thought of using anything else. You just have to wait for a good shot. Don't under estimate the old .22. My uncle Harry used to shoot decoyed pigeons with a .22 as well because they "weren't worth a cartridge" Its funny how times and opinions change. Now I read about people using .243s for foxes and it makes me wonder why. Mind you the ranges and the techniques are entirely different now. Edited October 21, 2009 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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