Help required Spanish 12g side by side

[BLUESUNSHINE]

Hi all ,

 

i might be asking the impossible but here goes ..................

 

Ive just bought a cheap spanish side by side in very good condition . Theres no makers name on it , all ive got is the serial number .

 

Im now curious as to what spanish company might have made it . Does anybody have any idea where i can find out who made it and how old it is ??

 

Thanks

[Fatcatsplat]

How do you know it's Spanish ??

[BLUESUNSHINE]

I was told it was spanish by the gunshop i bought it off but he said he didnt know the make . Hes also entered it on my shotgun cert as a spanish 12g

[Andy H]

Can you describe all of the proof marks on the gun and I will see if I can tell you when and where it was proofed

[BLUESUNSHINE]

Ill have a look now and get right back to you

[BLUESUNSHINE]

Just had a look at the symbols. According to a spanish proof website it has the proofing station mark of Eibar and smokeless powder proof marks .

Edited October 20, 2009 by BLUESUNSHINE

[Andy H]

Look for one letter on its own or a combination of one letter and one number that is the date code , Also look in the proof marks on the receiver for a stamp not shown in the spanish proofmark list this will be the manufacturers stamp ie: ZH in a shield = Zabala Hermanos

[BLUESUNSHINE]

Ok , had another look and i found the letteres MG stamped with an oval surround . There are some other letters/numbers that i cant quite make out . I'll have to borrow a magnifying glass for those .

[BLUESUNSHINE]

I think i may have found the makers name . Looked on a spanish shotgun site and i think MG denotes ZUBIAURRE, JUAN (antes MIGUEL GARAGARZA) .

 

Do you think this is right ? ( the MG is only stamped on the barrels )

Edited October 20, 2009 by BLUESUNSHINE

[Andy H]

That may be the barrel maker and that is why it is only on the barrels but I may be wrong about that , 90% of the Spanish shotguns I have seen have the makers stamp on the barrels and action .

[BLUESUNSHINE]

I cannot find any other markings on the action . The only other thing i can see is stamped on the barrel and as far as i can make out it says 5 v c s , or it could be 5 m c s , or even S m c s , or S v c s.

 

Any ideas

[mattslaptop247]

can you post a pic of the gun, see if one of us might have one similar?!

[AIRARMSTX200]

ive just sold this spanish s/b/s

 

it was an aigle

 

 

 

 

 

last pic shows aigle

 

[Andy H]

Does the MCS follow straight after a 4 figure number if so that is the weight of the barrels also does the mg look like this http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/sty.../attach_add.png if so it is Miguel Garagarza.

[BLUESUNSHINE]

Heres a pic of the action.......................http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/meteors_2009/

 

 

sorry the link doesnt appear to be working

Edited October 21, 2009 by BLUESUNSHINE

[Andy H]

Does the MCS follow straight after a 4 figure number if so that is the weight of the barrels also does the mg look like this http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/sty.../attach_add.png if so it is Miguel Garagarza.

[BLUESUNSHINE]

Yes the mcs does follow after some numbers and the M G does look like that. Who is or who was Miguel Garagarza ?? Any ideas on the approx date of manufacturer ?

 

Thanks for all your help so far

[Andy H]

Here is a copy of a post on shotgun world

 

"It was a cottage production and guild guns were the norm, not the exception. These guys would buy parts and pieces from others, assemble the guns and finish them and put their names on them. It wasn't uncommon for someone to produce a lock and engrave it and leave the banner blank, sell the pair to someone else that had bought a set of barrels and fitted them to a receiver then stock the gun and sell it. Equipment and supplies were in very short supply and things were cobbled together. It was very uncommon for an outfit to make a gun "Lock, Stock and Barrel" (in fact where that saying comes from if you do the whole thing....which indicates that in most older gun communities doing the whole thing WASN'T the norm) In the Basque Country, if the man's name is on it, displayed for all to see, you can rest assured he made the gun (just not all the pieces...each piece would have a marking by who made it). It was a very small community and you didn't survive, literally, by using another man's name.

 

 

Also the letter and number code is needed to date the s/gun.

[BLUESUNSHINE]

Thanks for all your help Andy . I'll have to go over it again to see if i can find any date codes . Is it possible that it might not have a date code stamped on it ?

[Andy H]

For example K1 on my Zabala gives you 1965 , This will give you all the dates and codes for Spanish guns.

 

http://personales.jet.es/rafa/b_punzones_eibar_fecha.html

[Vince Green]

Just a long shot but look at the part of the breech where the firing pins come out to strike the back of the cartridge. Are there two discs set into the action for the firing pins to come out from, each disc will have two holes in them so they can be unscrewed with a special tool?

 

If it has the action is a Ugarchia. They made actions like that in the white and sold them to other makers for finishing.

[BLUESUNSHINE]

Hi Vince ,

 

ive had a look and there is indeed two discs but there are three holes in each disc . The holes surround the firing pin hole in a triangle pattern . Any ideas ??

 

Also i cannot for the life of me find a date code . All i can find is 12-70 in an oval surround with one open end . Anybody any idea what these numbers could mean ??

[arjimlad]

Good luck with your quest.

 

12-70 means it is a 12 bore with 70mm chambers (or 2 3/4 inch if you prefer).

[BLUESUNSHINE]

Thanks for that Arjimlad

[Andy H]

Where are you in s/derby as I may be able to come and have a look