tomba26 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I am fairly new to shooting clays and until yesterday had been shooting them with the gun pre-mounted. I had a lesson yesterday and the instructor said he shot with the gun down before calling for the target and was encouraging me to do the same. Do most clay shooters that get to a decent standard shoot with the gun pre-mounted or gun down (I am talking mainly sporting and normal skeet)? I can't help but think most of the pros would shoot pre-mounted so as to remove another possible variable from affecting their scores? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I'm still on the steep bit of my learning curve and I was told to call then mount having started pre mounted. Sometimes, at first, you do a bad mount and the gun isn't pointing where you think it is, but it slows things down and make it more like 'real life' shooting. I am a convert for everything but DTL (never tried skeet). Give it a try and see what you think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbiker Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) Don't pre mount but it is imp not to keep the gun pointed down-so when you mount, you would only need to raise it up (ie., parallel movement). Edited November 1, 2009 by Ashbiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I am also new to clays, fortunately I have been lucky enough to shoot with more experienced guns, after the first 4 weeks or so I started to shoot from gun down, it doesn't need to be right down just out the shoulder, the problem i had with having the gun mounted was that I found it focused my eyes toward the barrells instead of the clays, I found you get a much better sight picture with gun down you can pick up on the clay quicker, mount and swing better, I watched a DVD by John Bidwell called Shotgun magic, some on here don't subscribe to his Move mount shoot method, but that aside some good tuition on gun mount, you don't realise how **** you mount is till you watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 In my opinion, it would be better if you can learn to shoot gun down. However, in clay shooting, there are birds that you can hit better from the gun up position, where you have a very brief view of the clay before it disappears behind a tree. Game shooters will try and tell you that it's gay to shoot gun up, and they will bore you with stories about how you can't shoot ducks with the gun up all the time Just ignore this anal tripe, as you're not shooting ducks. Competition clay shooting is about missing as few as possible and if shooting gun up on quick birds lets you break one or two more, then that's the way to go. It can work against you though, on birds which take a while coming. It would be a distinct advantage on these, to shoot gun down, so this is why I'd say learn gun down if you can, but don't dismiss gun up shooting where time and view is limited. I was taught to shoot gun up, I don't shoot game. I've tried shooting gun down now, and it looks like it would take me back to square one to re-learn it, so I tend to shoot gun up. On really slow, floaty crossers and incomers, I have the gun down and eventually mount it and set myself up for the shot. I think if I kept gun up for these long slow things, I would lose concentration before the time came to take the shot. If I was a natural gun down shooter, I wouldn't have to think about the problem of having too much time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toombsy Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 My dad taught me to shoot gun up, but now I shoot with the gun right down. I prefer it that way and I can hit a lot of clays for two reasons... The gun fits absolutely perfectly so I can mount it correctly each and every time, and I hit more when I shoot really quickly and instinctively. That was a natural progression for me, and I'm sure you'll do the same. Don't get hung up on how you shoot - there's no rules unless you're competiting in FITASC or ISU Skeet, so just do what you feel is best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1966 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 i prefer to shoot gun up, except when the clay is coming from behind, i then find it easier to look for the clay gun down then mount and shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbiker Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I am unsure re. previous comments on shooting gun down esp the one mentioning game shooting! It would be unsafe if it was driven game shoot and the guns were pointed down (you don't want to accidentally shoot the beaters!). The correct way, I am told, is that on the pre mount , the gun should be slightly down but still pointed parallel to the position you would take when you shoot. On beat shoots of course the gun needs to always be higher. Ash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfa taf Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I always shoot gun down , I feel I have mastered a good mount every time as my gun feats and I have spend hours on Dry Shooting.!! But that is only me, you shoot any way you think it will give you the beat results and most of all enjoy your shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I can't hit a thing gun mounted I just can't seem to get the gun swinging. For me the mount is part of the swing I'm into the move mount shoot school even then if the gun is in my shoulder for too long I start measuring and miss ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I am unsure re. previous comments on shooting gun down esp the one mentioning game shooting! It would be unsafe if it was driven game shoot and the guns were pointed down (you don't want to accidentally shoot the beaters!). The correct way, I am told, is that on the pre mount , the gun should be slightly down but still pointed parallel to the position you would take when you shoot. On beat shoots of course the gun needs to always be higher. Ash. "Shooting gun down" doesn't mean aiming at the ground. It means starting with the gun out of the shoulder (like all game shooters do) rather than ready mounted (which is a clay shooting thing). Neither method would be a health risk for beaters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I shoot gun down for everything, I feel really uncomfortable starting the shoot with the gun in my shoulder. I also agree 100% with Chard that competitive shooting is about about doing exactly the same thing time and time again. If having the gun in your shoulder to start with helps then do it. I also do an awful lot of wildfowling and game/pigeon shooting when I get the oopurtunity so perfecting a mount when sitting in a ditch etc is vital. If you only want to shoot clays then do whatever you feel comfortable with, if you want to be proficient at game/pigeons etc then learn to shoot gun down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have always shot gun down, and feel comfortable doing it. BUT... if (through lack of regular shooting mainly) my mount gets a bit erratic, I take a few shots gun up just to check all is OK and then drop it just out of my shoulder for the next shot and then a bit for the next etc. I find gun up is useful only for very quick going away birds, but other than that gun down for me. I would imagine if you shot gun up for too long it would be fairly hard to change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I would imagine if you shot gun up for too long it would be fairly hard to change? That's exactly right, this is what's happened to me after only 5 years I tried shooting gun down a few times, with poor results. If I'm ever going to try and change, I think it'll take a long period of bad (even worse ) scores and back to basics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Gun down man myself . When out pigeon shooting and I see a bird coming into the decoys I have to have a look around to see were I last stood the gun . Normally I have to run 10 yards to were the gun is ,stood up against a tree in the hedge row were I last left it ,run back into the hide ,mount and shoot . I guess I am a gun down man . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Gun down and muzzles on line with the target at pick up point, standing up right, feet at five past two and about 6/8 inches apart for clays. Gun up if time is very limited. You can`t really shoot gun up on game/pigeons or rough shooting because you might be holding the gun up there for a long time, and you tend to think too much and stop the gun swinging resulting in a miss behind, when you need to rely on your instinctive swing. Every one should dry mount from the gun down position at home as much as possible. The gun mount is very important to good shooting. Bring the gun to the cheek and then shrug the shoulder into the gun butt while swinging. (moving gun mount) It makes for accurate mounting because you don`t drop your head on to the stock and the gun goes to the correct spot in the shoulder, giving good eye alignment up the rib. It also gives less recoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Gun down on most sporting stands, but some are easier gun up depends on the stand, gun up stands for me are going away birds , especially low ones. so I agree with Chard, depends on the stand (sporting) and your preference. DTL then gun up always ! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Used to shoot gun up as I didn't have the confidence. Thought the clay would be long gone by the time I'd mounted. I now shoot gun down as it make you shoot more instinctively, which is when you hit the birds. Don't get me wrong, I still hit F all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutey Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Your question has been answered well by the guys. Basically at the clays whatever's comfortable for you, and depending on the discipline, DTL D/Trench and such like, best with gun pre mounted. National skeet and sporting either, or a bit of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 The point of gun down is that it is easier to see ( visual target acquisition) the target initially to establish speed and direct ion with the gun out of the way. Its also easier to move the gun when its down to initiate the swing. Gun down is less fatiguing than gun up. The downsides are that unless you are well practiced at perfect mounting you may well mis-mount and consequently miss. If working gun down, do not make the classic mistake of vertical mounting, then chasing. The whole gun should point at the clay through the mounting process, so as it comes up parallel to the flight line, you are also turning the body torso to match the clays progress in the air. The gun should hit the shoulder and face at the same moment, with the body and head set to receive it for perfect eye alignment. If it hits the shoulder and you then drop the head or re-align the eye, then either the mount is not good or the gun has fit problems. Gun up has advantages for certain targets, trap shooters will prefer it. Note also that many top ESK shooters prefer gun up to gun down, citing that they cant afford a mis-mount, and bear in mind that FITASC and OSK both force gun down to make it more difficult - no pre-mounting, and a low heel start. If you are gun down, dont raise the barrels and see-saw the gun, keep them flat to the flightline. Only push the barrels away from the face enough to see clearly over them - and use reverse dry mounting to get everything perfect ie, pre-mount at the intended kill point, imagine and fix the planned forward allowance sight picture in you mind - wind back down the perceived flight line slowly dropping the gun to gun hold position - DO NOT RELAX, you are now in the perfect stance to repeat the process as a muscle unwind ensuring a perfect mount. Gun down for the novice is a bit like the progression from an auto g'box to a manual for a car-learner. Makes some sense to get proficiency on brakes and steering, then bring in the complication of the clutch a stick shift. Same with shottie learners, its generally thought that the novice should learn basic technique gun up, and when that is sound, then add gun down. Always think of both gun-up and gun-down as choices. Every clay is different, and never be talked into believing there is only one way to shoot. Always be skilled at different ways and apply the best way for you to the target regardless of what others might say/think. Just because some-one else shoots a particular target gun down maintained lead, does not mean you must - you may be better off with gun up pull away on that particular target. Ultimately, you should know your own limitations and abilities at 5 ways of addressing a target, and be able to do them both gun up and gun down. Swing through / Pull away / Move-mount and Shoot / Maintained lead / Spot shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 An article that goes well with clayman's excellent post. http://www.clayshootingusa.com/html/archiv...0Gun%20Down.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 first step on shooting a target is seeing it. (you dont need a gun for that.) i have always shot gun down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 To echo previous responses On a slow target I have gun down .Mounting too early has me looking at the bead and rifling looking for lead which leads to a miss . On those fast going away targets that don't require much swing i simply have the gun just sitting out my shoulder so leaving not much work to do in mounting . Some good advice given in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I think both are ok but I prefer gun down as I swing better that way move mount shoot I like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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