Can using rimfire or FAC PCP ruin 12ft/lb shooting

[Axe]

I went out last night with the experienced owner of the rimfire. It was truly an eye opener. He came to one of my shoots that is total pest control, as most of them are. It was fairly quiet and very hard to get near the rabbits with my 12ft/lb.

 

After discussing in detail, how rimfire shooting should be approached i.e backstops, valleys, open fields, roads, footpaths and the like, we set off. In all he took 6 rabbits most out to ranges of 70 yards. It was truly inpressive. We could lay up comfortable in the knowledge that at that distance we would not scare them back in the burrows and simply pick out the perfect shots. That is exactly why I am considering the rimfire.

 

What reassured me the most, was the uncompromising way in which the rimfire drops the rabbits. There is no quibble about it, every shot counted and every shot stopped the rabbits instantly. It certainly put the limits of the 12ft/lb rifle into perspective. What surprised me the most, was how many second shots were available. Peering through the scope on my Logun I could see one drop and another within feet just lay still and continue to eat away! This truly is the tool for pest control.

 

I have learnt alot in the last 6 months and have gained a wealth of experience and knowledge in shooting, wildlife, the countryside and conservation. It has truly turned my way of thinking around and for the better I would like to think.

I now feel I would like to take the next step and gain yet further knowledge and experience. Every rabbit that I have taken so far has been for conservation and pest control, a vein in which I will continue. I do enjoy this but will never take a shot without just cause or simply for the sake of it. Does that make me a sporting shooter?

 

With the land limitation for use of rimfire, I can honestly say that I will maintain my 12/ftlb shooting. I gained an additional 20 acres last night with most of the rabbit population around residential buildings and stables, 12/ftlb territory.

 

As for the main reason of this poll is concerned, I will discuss in greater detail, the requiments for permission with each applicable land owner. Then discuss the right course of action with my shooting colleague/s. If there are any grey areas I will decline the shoot and seek additional land permission. It does not bode well to have greys areas with freinds but more inportantly, land owners.

 

Thank you to everyone that has replied. :(

 

Sincerely,

 

Malcolm.

[dunganick]

glad the outcome has been a good one, sounds like you enjoy the long shots as do i, cant beat watching a bunny drop stone dead from a shot which you calculated the holdover for.

 

but at the same time its still possible to stalk, as you need to make the shot safe, and more often than not this means moving around to a different side of a rabbit, possibly exposing you as a siloet or him getting scent of you, but a safe shot is a must, and this is half of the challenge.

 

what rimfire you getting.

 

i can recomend the cz varmint with the brooks trigger kit, with the standard spring installed, will shoot just as well as a sako finfire, but its half the price, down side is the trigger will never be as good as the finfire, but the kit does get it damned close.

[ROB REYNOLDS UK]

i said yes ..you give me a rimmy and i will clear up in no time ..better at range ,more stopping power .chest shots ,head shots even up the **** and out through its head shots not that i do them as i do pride my self on shooting small bore :( but it can be done ..you will kill far more with a rimmy ..

[Axe]

what rimfire you getting.

I have to be honest, I am quite unfamiliar with the abundance of choice. I had considered the CZ but at the moment the strong contender is the Anschutz 1417 Carbine Bolt Action with thumbhole stock.

 

Its the rifle we took out yesterday. It shoulders like it was designed for me alone and the thumbhole stock fits like a glove. The bolt action is smooth and the trigger is firm but true. I never really imagined me getting so passionate about a rifle but there you go. I'll be posting a thread "wheres the best place to get a custom walnut stock" before you know it :(

 

Anyway, I have plenty of time to choose, perhaps the Sako is worth a look in eh?!

 

Regards

 

Axe.

Edited August 12, 2005 by Axe

[dunganick]

i too looked at exactly those 3 rifles, and in the end the wallet made the decision for me, as for the price difference over the anshutz yet alone the sako could pay for bullets for years.

 

the anshutz is very nice, if not a little short, i have to say i do preffer the wood on them, and that the stock is longer, however the other main problem i found (which owners will argue isnt a problem) is that if the bolt lifts at all the shot wont go off.

 

owners of this rifle say that this can be solved by placing your thumb over the bolt or simply checking it before the shot, but its just one more thing to be thinking about.

 

sako is bloody expensive and has plastic on it, its going to be as accurate as the other 3 rifles (mashed 1 holers at 50) but in my opinion apart from the wood its not worth the money you pay for them.

 

the cz, has a useless standard trigger, which can be sorted by the brooks kit, (which some shops fit as standard) the american and heavy barrel are considered slightly more accurate than the other models, but for field use the others still pass with flying colours.

 

disadvantages, trigger needs the upgrade, the action isnt blued just matt finish, the magazine is plastic (can buy a metal 5 shot replacement or 10shot plastic) the wood is not always amazing and the stock is too short for someone like me (just about 6ft) however are these disadvantages £200 worth as most of them can be sorted.

 

i will get some groups up of my rimmy next time im bench resting for a cheap gun its v impressive

[Axe]

Yeah the groups would be good too look at. The Anschutz is short, and thats probably what I like about it as im only 5'8" and my arms are short.

 

Hmmm the no shot, well it actually happened in the field last night. The trigger was pulled click went he spring but no shot fired. On inspection the cartridge had not been given a full strike. If this is what you refer to then I might be a little concerned but only a little, but then I am used to the S16 and you really have to learn to remember where your at with it.

 

Not sure about the Sako I havent really looked at it. Synthetic stock maybe better for me, though not as pretty it'll be easier to clean and maintain. Price though is inportant, im not gonna scrimp on this as I do beleive in spending money wisely. That means i'll spend what I need to in order to get a good reliable gun.

 

regards,

 

Axe.

 

Edit=Forgot to add, im not sure I want to start playing around with different triggers this different stocks that , at the moment.

Edited August 12, 2005 by Axe

[Sergeant]

I aggree, both have their places, I went down the route of the rimmy first, having had a few times out with a shotty (and lots of range experience with different rifles). I did consider the air rifle but decided against it due to it not having much more range than the shotty.

I too have used the anschuts and can confirm the bolt slippage thing.

I now own a CZ452 American, excellent bit of kit, and cheap.

[Axe]

Okay so this bolt slipping thing, is it down just down to the bolt not being closed enough. If so, is this caused by accidentally knocking the bolt when closed?

 

Regards

 

Axe.

[dunganick]

must point out that the brooks kit is 12.50 to buy and fit yourself, or 30 to have the shop fit it and it really does improove the trigger by about 200%. no 1st stage or creep.

 

have a look around, might be worth starting a topic and a poll, i would think your options would be, 10/22 :( , 597 remington, cz 452, sako finfire, anshutz of some type, or maybe the bolt action remington or ruger.

 

personally i would go for a cz varmint (but then im biast B) ) anchutz and sako probably both 2nd options, both have their niggles (bolt in the anshutz) and the plastic on the finfire)

 

see what others have to say,

 

NICK

[Axe]

Incidentally Nick, what do you think of the Sako Quad.

 

I know one person in particluar would be interested in your response.

 

Thanks,

 

Axe.

[deadeye ive]

Axe

Whatever gun you decide on the biggest drawback to long range accurate shooting with a rimmy is the ammo.

For example : Myself ,Ruger 10/22 and eley std using a harris by-pod can't get consistant (1 1/4") groups much past 80yds as that is the maximum CONSISTANT potential of this rig out and to date i've put nearly 5000 rds up the barrel.The gun however as the potential for a humane kill on a rabbit alot further .

Things to consider

Buy with the barrel already screw threaded for a silencer

Semi autos are Ok but the trigger pull as to remain a certain poundage and normally feels quite heavy (adjust to light and you could end up with a full auto :*) )

Knowing what i know now suggest bolt action

 

 

Cheers Ive :(

[dunganick]

i personally dont think the quad is a good idea, for the money of each barrel you can buy a brand new cz 452, so just buy a cz 452 in 22lr and 17hmr, and call it a day.

 

the idea is well put together, and with the import of the multi point zero scope that will be here soon it will work, but the price of the barrels is too high to make it worth while.

 

not to mention that 17mach 2 has an effective max of 100yard, which the rimfire can cover, and 22mag is a useless round, and the 17hmr can do everything it can and have a flatter trojectory.

 

so no need for 2 barrels that sako would offer.

 

just my opinion, if its sako it will be very well made, fautlessly reliable and very ergonomic, but i would rather have 2 guns. :(

[Evilv]

and 22mag is a useless round

I had a Winchester underlever in .22 MAG about twenty years ago and I loved that rifle and the round really. That was before .17 hmr of course. Put the cross on the target, squeeze and down it went - right out to a hundred yards... Maybe nostalgia is at work here, but no rabbit ever got up after I put the cross on it, even though plenty of them were smashed to a pulp by those jacketted hollow points. More expensive to feed than .22lr mind, and a LOT louder.

 

I'd like to try out the hmr round mind. They do sound great, but I doubt I'm a good enough shot to take advantage of its range.

 

Once we'd cleared out the shoot, which we soon did with two rimmies, we used to fill old beer cans with water and explode them with the .22 MAG at a hundred yards. When I say 'explode' I mean it. Looked like they'd been shot by a tank shell. I wish I had some video of those games. Wish I still had that gun - Ah - the folly of youth and avarice...

Edited August 12, 2005 by Evilv

[dunganick]

yeh i know what you mean mate, dont get me wrong becuase i also used 22mag for a long time, when it was the largest thing me and my dad had, and it was a good gun for what we wanted. but now it becomes clear that the round is inherantly inaccurate and noisey, and suffers from the same issues as the 17hmr, apart from that it dosent fly anywhere near as flat and you dont get expanding projectiles for it. so in short it makes nearly as much noise as a centerfire, dosent shoot as flat, costs a bomb (the 22mag always did) and isnt accurate enough for head shots.

 

and if you wana see a bottle explode try a stoked up 243 at 150 yards, were talking a big bottle, the kindas u buy engine oil in. now thats impressive :(

[Evilv]

LOL - Yes, I suppose a .243 would make an oil bottle explode impressively.

 

I do remember the cost of the .22MAg was frighteningly high. As I recall, it was more than five times as much as its little brother (LR). I bought 500 german hollowpoints which expanded bigtime. They were better than the American ones - can't remember whether they were Winchester or Remington. Anyway - I'm all out of date on this stuff since the hmr came out. Its 25% faster than the old .22MAG. I remember getting it on the ticket as well as the .22LR because a farmer asked me to shoot foxes. In fact though I only used it on rabbits, beer cans and the odd pigeon. I sold it for a song with 300 rounds of ammo and spent the money on a rubbish computer - blo*dy fool! It was around the time of Michael Ryan and the whole sport had a sort of nasty wiff about it as far as the public were concerned.

[SNAKEBITE]

Having got quite strong feelings on this I took a step back and tried to put it all in perspective.

Here is what I have come up with ..................

 

The original question was "can a rimmy spoil it for a 12lb'er" (or words to that effect!)

I have listened to the evidence put and feel that people are comparing them instead. They are 2 different tools with different uses (albeit to the same ends!) It is like comparing a pin hammer with a sledge hammer. Both hammers, different uses.

I am NOT knocking rimfires, quite the opposite. Infact all this talk about them has fired an intrest :( However I don't want them to spoil the land I have at the moment.

(Although pest control is the aim, I want to emphasise the word CONTROL. Driving them to extinction on the land will take away my "hobby")

 

Just curious but after hearing the "once you have a rim fire you won't go back to a 12lb'er." theory how many people have tried to shoot the "rimmy" land with a 12lb'er? And if they haven't how do they know it doesn't spoil it?

(NOT WISHING TO PROVOKE AN ARGUEMENT, INFACT I WANT TO BE PROVED WRONG SO IT PUTS IT ALL TO REST, I CERTAINLY DO NOT WANT TO BE PROVED RIGHT BECAUSE IT IS TOO LATE BY THEN!)

 

THe most important thing I did come up with though was that we have enough people who don't shoot having a pop at us without any discent in the ranks.

It is a big enough world with plenty of room for all tastes and styles, just got to learn to get along with it all.

[deadeye ive]

All i can say Snakebite is that when your friend gets his rimfire give it a go as you might be surprised at the fact that you still need a reasonable about of fieldcraft.

Do you shoot at night ?

 

On a Golf course where i have shot for the last 8 yrs using a AA410 35ftlbs i find the rabbits to be more skittish each year.This is also not helped by the fact that there is some illegal coursing activities occurring on which there is nothing i can do about as they carefully stick to the footpath that crosses over this land and the greenkeeper as asked me not to upset them for fear of reprisals to his greens.

 

As a result i am now in the process of trying to get the land passed for me to use a 17hmr (150-200yds )to make me more effective but i emphasise the word control and not decimation as i too want to be able to have some sport next year and for years after that.............JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE PROGRESSED TO A HIGHER POWER GUN DOES'NT MEAN YOU HAVE TO SHOOT EVERYTHING THAT AS A PULSE THAT HAPPENS TO BE IN RANGE. :(

 

If the rabbits started damaging the greens the committee would soon hire another shooter to control them and with a 12ftlb gun you could soon end up losing your permission to someone more effective.

 

 

Before you set your mind Snakebite give the rimmy a go

 

 

 

Cheers Ive B)

[hawkeye]

Ive read all the replys to this question and i think it is a load of bull that once you have used a rimmy you will not want to use 12ftlbs.

I started of useing 12ftlbs on most of my shoots i then went on to .22 rimmy and .17hmr as well as shotguns and i still have quite a few sessions with the 12ft. Its ok useing the rimfire's for the rabbits ect on certain days usually when i feel a bit lazy.

But i still get a lot of fun with the 12fter.

You still need fieldcraft but not as much with the rimmy.

So you will still get fun out of 12ftlbs as well as fun out of the rimmy.they are both useful on the day. B) :( B)

Edited August 13, 2005 by hawkeye

[hill billy]

ever since i got my .22 lr i have hardly used my air rifle as much as i used to but there is places you can shoot with an air rifle were you can't shoot with a rim fire

[deadeye ive]

Ive read all the replys to this question and i think it is a load of bull that once you have used a rimmy you will not want to use 12ftlbs.

Mike ,You sound just like my dad and he was born 1945 :( B) .Us younger lads like a bit of power ,i must confess i hav'nt used a 12 ft lb in years although i could had done with one recently to shoot a nieghbours rat ,so they do still have their uses .

On a lighter note it takes alot of SKILL ,alot of time and alot of patiance to kill HUMANELY with a std air rifle .Although there will be FEW exceptions these traits only come with old ******* :*) like yourself and old rooster

 

I still stand by the fact that a rimfire will make a 12 ftlb airgun obselete on the same piece of OPEN land .

 

 

All the best Ive

 

Hope i'm not causing any offence as it's saturday night and it's late :*)

[hawkeye]

Quote Deadeye

 

(On a lighter note it takes alot of SKILL ,alot of time and alot of patiance to kill HUMANELY with a std air rifle .Although there will be FEW exceptions these traits only come with old ******* like yourself and old rooster.)

 

 

Ive

iI bet us old ******* like rooster and myself could teach you young pup's a thing or two about field craft. :( B)

 

Every gun has it's day mate the 12fter isnt dead yet by a long way. By the way no offence was taken and for the record your old man is older than me (not by much though)

B)

 

PS i like a bit of power as well :*) :*) :*)

Edited August 14, 2005 by hawkeye

[Lord Geordie]

Well i have voted NO as i find it's more technique than brute force.

 

If you use what cover you have and guage the wind so your approaching from downwind etc you can quite easily get into range for most rabbits or other quarry.

 

Most times if you spook a rabbit and it dives for cover just set up and sit it out. I find in 7 out of 10 cases within 10 to 15 mins he's back out.

 

Closest i have EVER got to a wild rabbit was less than 6 feet but that was a complete fluke. Popped my head over a Hill and there he was. I saw him n he saw me. He went prone but i just took him out anyway.

 

Mostly i get within 20 to 30 yards some times a little closer as in normal conditions i don't like to take shots further than that. When there is a Wind free day though i can go to 45 with devestating results B)

 

I remember taking my mate out shooting one day and the **** had just put aftershave on :(

 

Still got a bag of rabbits though as i left him in the car

 

Zeb

[deadeye ive]

Ive

iI bet us old ******* like rooster and myself could teach you young pup's a thing or two about field craft. :( B)

Only trouble is Mike at your age the joints start creaking and give the game away

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers Ive B)

[hawkeye]

 

Ive

iI bet us old ******* like rooster and myself could teach you young pup's a thing or two about field craft. :(  B)

Only trouble is Mike at your age the joints start creaking and give the game away

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers Ive

Ive

In my mind im only in my thirties but as you said i have to admit the old joints tell me otherwise.So i have to oil them good enought excuse for a drink now and then.

 

right im of to do some bunnie bashing with the 12fter so there. B)

Edited August 14, 2005 by hawkeye

[Axe]

I've very little experience with live rounds as you all know. This being my first venture in to it. I went at 4:30am on Sunday with the guy who has been showing me the ropes. He brought along a 3 different rifles a 410, .22LR and .223, to demonstrate there capability and position in the field.

 

It was the .223 that impressed me the most. He was laid up facing a shot of 172yards (according to his range finding gismo), 1 squeeze of the trigger and down the rabbit went. When we finally managed to climb half way up the steep bank it was taken on, I just stared in amasement at what the round had actually done. The entry point was inside the left shoulder and very hard to find, the entry point, well you can guess, was very easy to find and about 5 inches in length. The round had literally ripped through the rabbit and completely smashed the spine.

 

It certainly has put things into perspective for me. It really does make you wonder just what this 'little' round could stop. I certainly get the impression now, that size is not so inportant (not sure the wife would agree ) but more over the amount of charge set behind the projectile. Truly impressive.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

Edited August 15, 2005 by ernyha