jasper3 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 just found out yesterday ..a customer of mine has closed down one of her LTD buisiness..... and started up another... she owed me 10k...my solicitor rang me to say ..it aint worth chasing it as she has moved all her assets to the new company..he said I would win the court case but without the assets i wont get a penny....... I know there are many worse off than me..but boy do i feel gutted at the mo onwards and upwards jasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rover Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 That's really, really poor. If your solicitor was sure she would have to pay any costs, I would take her to court anyway. Failing that, could you or a family member order £10,000 worth of business or goods from her new company then not pay?? I don't think I could sleep until I had repaid the compliment in some way. I have had to suffer bounced cheques and the like but never anything of that value. I feel for you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robc89 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 When you read the headlines and see wats on the box 10k isnt a great deal compared to the billions that some companys are in debt for. BUT to the smaller business these amounts can end up puttin you through. The company i work for and am now a director, we were took for 50k buy a builder we wer working for. When we went to HSBC (the local bank) asked if they could add 50k on to our overdraft, they came up with a better plan. They actually asked for the overdraft back! Since then we have had enormous trouble, changed bank and hopefully now on the way back. We are doing alot of work for a PLC company now but they basically decide when they pay us and not when they are supposed to but as they are plc company we hope they wont be going under anytime soon! Through all this we have kept 30 plumbers and electricians in a job and they have been so helpfull, even waiting a few days later for us to get payed so they can! They have always got their money in the end! I am young and have a lot to learn but if I have learnt one thing its this Government and the Banks do not and will not do anything to help the small business!!! Jasper you may not see your money again but hopefully someone one day will cover the front of her house with a muck spreader!!!! Understanding your anger Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 just found out yesterday ..a customer of mine has closed down one of her LTD buisiness..... and started up another...she owed me 10k...my solicitor rang me to say ..it aint worth chasing it as she has moved all her assets to the new company..he said I would win the court case but without the assets i wont get a penny....... I know there are many worse off than me..but boy do i feel gutted at the mo onwards and upwards jasp Make enquiries and see if you can find any other companies/individuals who are also owed money, find out what action they intend taking, with a view to joining forces. Whilst not wishing to question the legal advice you have received, trading whilst insolvent can lead to the Directors of a company becoming personally liable for the debts of the business. I recovered money in the past by this route, even making two Directors bankrupt. Sometimes even the threat of some further investigation, or legal action, can provoke an offer to settle all, or part of the debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 your accountant was right its not worth chasing. Basically what you'll find is liquidators have been appointed and the assets sold to the new company which she won't be a director of so you have no rights over the assets or goodwill etc. You'll be an unsecured creditor in a long list behind the tax man and the bank and get nothing back, been here so many times now I don't even bother filling the paperwork out as I've never had anything back. Going after them for trading while insolvent is fine but you never get the proof you need and what you'll find is it was a corporation tax demand or the bank refusing more lending that forced them to put the company into liquidation. I've on about 3 occasions had the new company wanting us to work for them again on one I've done it payment up front at highly inflated rates but now if I get asked to quote for one thats gone bust on us I just add on the previous debt to the quote as it gives me some satisfaction. Did it the other day got asked for a quote which would normally be about £20 and I quoted £684.63 when the guy picked himself up and asked what the hell it was about I just said you don't expect to stiff us for that amount and just start trading again do you? his reply well this is a separate company so I just said is it **** and hung up. One things for sure once they've done it to you once they have a horrible habbit of doing it again if you let them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Check out what the man said...she closed down one of her LTD businesses...that's not to say it went into liquidation so the directors may not have been trading insolvently. Also when debts are smallish (if 10k can be called that) the cost of solicitors to take any action is likely to amount to that sort of figure (ask Mung the millionaire lawyer) and it's unlikely (even if you win) that you'd be awarded costs. It's a tough lesson but learn from it and in future watch the credit you extent to companies, even the biggest can stuff you! A story; many years ago as a very small business I was asked to do a particular job for Vickers (then they owned Rolls Royce) not worth much but it was a job they couldn't get anyone else to do (highly specialised). I sent them the bill payable in 30 days and when it came time to chase it they politely said 'don't you know we don't pay any bills for 90 days'. I took out a winding up order against them and they paid in 3 days. I also received a rather nice letter from them saying they'd never do business with me again...fine who needs it! When push comes to shove everyone and I do mean everyone in business will shaft you so tread carefully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Yet another example of the laws/rules being heavily stacked against the honest, hard working types of this country - it is totally unfair that you should get shafted like this - I hope she chokes on her extra large turkey on Crimbo day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 thanks lads.... i did look down every avenue..and I have talked with some of the other firms who are owed..we all seem to be in the same boat.. her Brother is listed as the new director on the new firm. I might just have a quiet word with him.... I know I wont get the money back..but as they say..There is more than one way to skin a cat .... I have mentioned it to the hospitals that gave her the work in the 1st place... they wern't pleased also have let other firms in the flooring trade know..some had said they have been asked to quote for jobs..... they seem to have changed thier minds now your all right about the backup for small buisiness..there aint none jasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliebrown Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 thanks lads.... i did look down every avenue..and I have talked with some of the other firms who are owed..we all seem to be in the same boat..her Brother is listed as the new director on the new firm. I might just have a quiet word with him.... I know I wont get the money back..but as they say..There is more than one way to skin a cat .... I have mentioned it to the hospitals that gave her the work in the 1st place... they wern't pleased also have let other firms in the flooring trade know..some had said they have been asked to quote for jobs..... they seem to have changed thier minds now your all right about the backup for small buisiness..there aint none jasp Thats all thats possible, Spread the word, wont help with getting the money back but atleast you might stop it happening to anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Jasper this is where you might just find it gets interesting, ok she seems to be getting contracts that will be via the government procurement and tendering system hence the health service contracts. Now with them you have to submit company accounts etc and bid from there, i'd be asking to speak to the head of procurement at the places you've done the work and explaining how she's able to win the bids presumably on cost as she doesn't pay her subcontractors. Word it right and you should be able to get her company blacklisted for the future and you never know if there is money outstanding to the old company they may withold payment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colchesterhomebrew Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I had a customer TRY go under on me about 2 years ago. Having done some work for one of his customers whilst he was attending the birth of his first child, I issued the invoice only for him to be taken ill and stop working. I played along, being considerate about his health, only to find that he wasn't recovering and hadn't returned to work. Eventually, he issued the cheque, which then bounced. He then re-issued the cheque and promised, in writing, to personally cover the cheque if it failed to clear a second time. It bounced. When I finally got him to answer the phone, he advised that due to "stress", he had decided to give up work and had passed all his shares in the business to his father in law. When I contacted the F.I.L two days before Christmas, he was as useful as a chocolate fireguard. He knew nothing about the debt, nothing about the business, no idea what money was due in, no idea what was due out and casually informed me that he had applied to have the company dissolved and struck off. I waited till the new year and then recontacted the original debtor. His wife (the former company secretary) advised that the company was being wound up, that they were no longer involved and that if I continued to harass them, they would report me to the police. I tracked down their accountant, who advised that some three months earlier, he had advised them that the company was insolvent and that they should put it into liquidation. They decided they couldn't afford this and instead transferred the shares to the F.I.L and told him to apply to have it struck off. I advised Companies House and got the dissolution process stopped pending further investigation. I then issued a claim via the local small claims court for the full value of the debt, interest under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 and All court costs on the basis that the three directors (my contact, his wife and the F.I.L) had acted illegally in their attempts to have the company struck off and in that my contact had fraudulently issued a company cheque AFTER he had already transferred the business to the F.I.L and was thus no longer an authorised signatory of the company cheques. The local court agreed and awarded me my full claim against the three directors PERSONALLY rather than against the company they were trying to close down. It came to around £1800 in total so they made an offer to pay at a rate of £50.00 a month. I accepted. Two weeks later, and just before the date the total claim would have been registered against them as a CCJ, a cheque arrived for the FULL value and, best of all, it cleared. So, just because the company has been closed down, it doesn't mean that the correct procedure was followed and if it wasn't, you may well have a case to hold the directors PERSONALLY responsible. I'd check with companies house to see when the dissolution petition was issued and ask for a copy of it. If the company has claimed that there are no undischarged outstanding debts, which is the only way they can "close it down" rather than liquidate it, you stand a good chance of being able to pursue the directors. Good luck Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Post the name address up and we'll all send them jiffy bags with "presents" from our dogs. Theres thousands of members on here, thats one hell of a stink through the letterbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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