AAs410

[Evilv]

No worries Ive.

 

I'm always getting the wrong end of the stick and shooting off advice / criticism / diatribes (LOL - I just typed DOatribes) only to realise I've dropped a clanger later.

 

Cheers

 

Hey but isn't it surprising how much energy that 30 foot pound pellet still has after 50 metres. Pity we didn't have less gravity here on earth, then all our guns would be flat shooters and we could take rabbits at 200 yards knocking them ten feet into the air! Of course, we'd also be knocked off our feet by the recoil....

 

I wonder what the air gun rules are on Mars?

Edited September 4, 2005 by Evilv

[deadeye ive]

Hi Evilv

Gravity certainly makes shooting interesting to say the very least and some of the newcomers to hunting are going to find out shortly that no matter how good you are on the range ,or lying in wait next to a warren(distance worked out ) ,it's going to count for absolute nothing where lamping on the move is concerned.I expect the topic questions to change addressing the problems that we as experienced hunters have overcome.

 

At the moment i seem to be more focused on my .223 and could tell you all about energy drop per target range till the cows come home ,but as for the Fac airgun i have'nt a clue so i thank you for the 17 ftlb at 50m as i have learnt something new

 

 

Don't go to Mars ,Jupiters better but you need agood pair of Heavy boots and a decent BA kit

 

 

Cheers Ive

[Evilv]

But the drop on a fac airgun there would be enormous!!!

 

 

I got that energy figure from Chairgun. You've probably got it already, but it's quite useful if you're a 'Rainman' type like me...

[deadeye ive]

Can't pull the wool over your eyes hey old fella

 

 

Although i've heard of chair gun I've never found a need to use it ,basically I like to keep my airgunning as simple as possible as that what works well for myself.

 

 

Right its the big hit on the golf club tonight

Guns fully charged

Batteries fully charged

I'm Half fully Charged

 

 

 

Cheers Ive

[deadeye ive]

Doh AGAIN

It should have looked like this

[SNAKEBITE]

Although i've heard of chair gun I've never found a need to use it ,basically I like to keep my airgunning as simple as possible as that what works well for myself.

Sound advice indeed.

Keep it simple. I just let things worry me for reason!!

 

EDITED .......

 

Of couse that should have said "NO reason" :yp:

Edited September 6, 2005 by SNAKEBITE

[Axe]

Ive found chairgun fairly useful, especially using it for my 12ft/lb'er. Though it may not be perfectly accurate it does provide you with good guidance of where your pellet will go. In addition, if you use a laser for range finding, you can also use chairgun to determine the best range to set at etc.

 

I particularly like being able to see the changes in the pellet trajectory when setting zero for different ranges. I have been able to determine the best zero for my setup, close guidance for the holdover pattern and set my laser for range finding. All this without having to use too many pellets!

 

This certainly has helped me to maintain 40 yard shots with no problem. But of course, you have to be able to shoot in the first place. :yp:

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

Edited September 6, 2005 by Axe

[SNAKEBITE]

No doubt about it CHAIRGUN is useful......... BUT looking back it is no substitute for putting up targets at different distances and seeing what the pellet does "in the real world" Still it is a starting point for different "calculations", but I guess we are back to the "keeping it simple " bit now :yp:

[deadeye ive]

No doubt you've probably sussed this already. :yp:

Now's the time to set these targets up at night and judge your distance under a lamp (the more powerful the better ) .When you can remember the sight picture of 40m ,,,,,,,,,,Then apply a strong red diffuser , and then start the procedure over again .(40m looks like 20m under a bright light) and with a red diffuser applied it's different again.

Changing Colours will in most cases confuse them Rabbits

I welcome ANY HUNTER that uses all the technology and shooting aides at his disposal ,for the primary aim is to ensure clean ,humane and Quick kills .

The raw basic approach suits my style and no two shooters are the same.Whether people have an 100% record in this area is highly doubtful

 

 

 

Cheers Ive

[SNAKEBITE]

No doubt you've probably sussed this already.

Now's the time to set these targets up at night and judge your distance under a lamp (the more powerful the better ) .When you can remember the sight picture of 40m ,,,,,,,,,,Then apply a strong red diffuser , and then start the procedure over again .(40m looks like 20m under a bright light) and with a red diffuser applied it's different again.

Changing Colours will in most cases confuse them Rabbits

I welcome ANY HUNTER that uses all the technology and shooting aides at his disposal ,for the primary aim is to ensure clean ,humane and Quick kills .

The raw basic approach suits my style and no two shooters are the same.Whether people have an 100% record in this area is highly doubtful

 

 

 

Cheers Ive

You have just about said it all there mate.

It is so easy to get carried away and not know the basics. Then when you think you have got it sorted in daylight lamping puts you back at 1st base again! :yp:

[Axe]

One of the best approaches I have adopted to distance judging, is comparing the size of the target in the recticle. MY 30/30 recticle is great for this. This can be done on a rabbit that you have already despatched.

 

Place the rabbit so you have a good clear view of the head. Walk out to your nominal distance, in my case 30 yards. Take a note of the magnification, I use 9, then view the head size inside the recticle. Repeat these steps at 20 and 40 yards and the head should get bigger or smaller. If you take a mental note of these images you will be able to estimate your true target range better at night and day!

Yes, yes, I know this doesnt compensate for the baby rabbits but you should be able to determine this from viewing the target outside of the scopes. Using these methods and learning how many paces I take to 10 and 30 yards etc has helped me to become very good at determining ranges in the field. I was out last week with a colleague with a range finder and paced out what I thought was 30 yards and was justy over a yard out. Speculating at other ranges up to 50 yards I have never been more than 3-5 yards out, without pacing.

 

I generally use the horizontal line and place this directly on top of the head and compare wear the bottom jaw/cheek is located on the vertical line. Anyway, thisa works very well for me.

 

As for keeping it simple, yes its fine to do this and yes you do need to verify this with paper targets. But the difference his how much time and the number of shots it takes to do this. Of course those who have been shooting and gained the experience will not need to mess about anywhere near as much as those who are reading these posts looking for help and advice. :yp:

 

As for chairgun, those of you who can get to grips with the techy way in which it works, will be amazed at the differences that ft/lb'age and inclination can make. It certainly gave me insight when I firsted started out.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

Edited September 6, 2005 by Axe

[deadeye ive]

Yes, yes, I know this doesnt compensate for the baby rabbits but you should be able to determine this from viewing the target outside of the scopes.

 

 

As for keeping it simple, yes its fine to do this and yes you do need to verify this with paper targets. But the difference his how much time and the number of shots it takes to do this.

The technique i use and suggest is basically have your partner set up a target and light it up with a lamp,you approach it as if it were a rabbit and adopt your desired stance and shoot ,

Then pace out to the target to see how much you've missed by and how far you were away from it .

Distance is best judged with both eyes open using your prohipheral vision and outside the scope as you have mentioned and it is an aquired skill ,there are no short cuts and pacing your targets out first at night won,t really help .You need to visualise it by approaching towards it until you feel you are within your desired range.

I am certainly not critiscising your technique Axe especially if it works for you but it does seem somewhat complicated especially for lamping on the move where speed is the escence once a rabbit has been spotted.

 

 

Cheers Ive

[SNAKEBITE]

I supose it really is a "what suits you best" approach :yp:

Whatever way you choose to do it practice is the key.

 

Anyway getting back on topic.............

I am going to look at a AAS410K tonight. Apart from the obvious what should I look for when buying secondhand? Any less than obvious foibles with this beast?

[Axe]

I am certainly not critiscising your technique Axe especially if it works for you but it does seem somewhat complicated especially for lamping on the move where speed is the escence once a rabbit has been spotted.

Didnt take it as criticism Like you say, what ever works best. I will add, that I am no expert on lamping. This winter will be my first forray into lamping and expect i'll might well be asking additional questions. :yp:

 

I do expect that this is where my laser will be resighted to my maximum range. This will certainly help with range estimation. Out on a shoot last night, (which was very enjoyable) I spent the passing moments checking my range estimation in the dark. I think I can safely say, i've got this in the bag. But thats another story.

 

Snakebite, good move mate you'll certainly enjoy the AAs410. I would check the stock for abuse and make sure it fits where it is supposed to. Look for tell tale signs of missuse and wear etc and plink it out at 30yards, if you can, to check the grouping. Also check for modifications and make sure it has never been on ticket!

 

Hope it works out buddy.

 

Axe.

Edited September 7, 2005 by Axe

[SNAKEBITE]

Also check for modifications and make sure it has never been on ticket!

Brian (Sussex Lad) has just tipped us off that the carbine model cannot be uprated to FAC as the air cylinder is too small. So no worries there!!

If I were to go FAC air rifle in the future then I would still keep this one. And the springer

All bases covered then!

(Thanks for the warning though Brian!!)

[Axe]

Good luck with your quest Snakebite, just dont let the 'I wants' get a hold. :yp:

 

Axe.

[SNAKEBITE]

Good luck with your quest Snakebite, just dont let the 'I wants' get a hold.

 

Axe.

Too late for that.

 

Couldn't sleep a wink last night :yp:

[roblade]

think the only question i would have about an S410K would be the price, and what you get for your money LOL £280-300 would be a fair price for a rifle on its own with a beech stock

 

silencer+25

basic 3-9x40 mildot +30

mounts +10

bag +10

 

so be looking at a price of about £400 for the complete set up

 

just curiouse have you seen the career 707 i have up on the sales section?

 

ROB :yp:

[sussex lad]

just curiouse have you seen the career 707 i have up on the sales section?

 

ROB

Rob,

Sorry but thats about the ugliest rifle i have ever seen!!!! :yp:

I,m sure its very good but !!!!boy thats ugly!!!

 

Cheers,

 

Brian...

[roblade]

LOL if you think thats ugly, have you seen a gunpower stealth or a hw100???LOL now those are two ugly rifles LOL

 

ROB :yp:

 

PS i dont think it would win any beauty awards either but it shoots pretty damn good and got to say its probably one of the most fun rifle i have ever owned

[Dave-G]

Hi Guys,

You've got me a bit worried about the 12ft lbs /plod thing...

Being new to this - and with a farmers consent - I have found that the 5 rabbits I have killed take several point blank headshots (behind the eyes/under the ears) before they stop kicking. Magpies seem to be equally tough!

In fact it's quite distressing in a perverse sort of way - since I did want a kill - but a cleaner one where I,and my companion/s dont hear their small grunts,or cries.

So much so that I've had a bit of a fiddle with the adjuster on my AA S410 carbine.

I subsequently Got the supplying (it was a used one) dealer to chrono it - and he upped it to 11.8 for me - but it's still not killing humanely in my opinion - so I upped it a bit more...then more...etc... AND LOST TRACK!

 

My thinking was to up it for the farm - then make it legal before I get back to my car.

The thing is - one of my permited shooting areas is,of all places,near a police station!

:blink: Yes - I feel a muppet :*)

 

I THINK I have put it back to about the right place - but could any of you guys confirm that about one turn open is likely to be within the lawfull 12ftlbs ?

would you be able to screw yours in to see how many turns it has?

I will be selling it soon - as soon as I get my FAC, and I'd rather it was well under rather than too close or over.

Please Feel free to pm me if you prefer not to go "on air" so to speak

I've tried the search feature without succes on this tricky subject. Thanks in advance Dave

[SNAKEBITE]

DAVE,

 

 

Are you sure they are being hit in the right place? Sorry to ask but that is the obvious place to start. Sometimes the rabbits do struggle a bit when hit. This is down to nerves and as been discussed at lenght on this forum as to the exact reason, and we still haven't got a definative answer!! Behind the eye is perfect.

 

Get the rifle re-chrono'ed and stick with it at the legal limit.

 

Good luck sorting it out.

 

EDITED BECAUSE I DID NOT READ DAVE'S POST PROPERLY AND A COMPLETE A**E OF MYSELF THE FIRST TIME AROUND!! :blink:

Edited September 12, 2005 by SNAKEBITE

[Axe]

Dave,

 

The only way you can 100% sure that the rifle is set correctly, is to get re-chrono'd. 'Guesstimating' is not something that should be relied on for leghal limits. Also consider the poor chap who will eventually buy tour rifle.

 

As for the clean kills, well placement will help alot, but will never stop a rabbit kicking necessarily. Each rabbit will react differently to the same shot. I always go for the base of the ear or if not seen to well, i'll go for the rear corner of the eye. Both of these areas will allow the pellet to get where it needs to be, the brain. Either way, you'll always get to see the aerobatical antics from time to time.

 

If your unsure of your pellets POI then set targets in the field at 20,30 & 40 yards, put your scope on full mag, then work out your correct holds. I have learnt to pace my distances in the field after each shot to check my range estimating. Also, if your shooting on a regular permission, look for range markers where your shots are taken. A tree, bush, stone, post, etc, all can paced out form your position in advance, allowing you to estimate the range better when taking the shot.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

[Dave-G]

Thanks for the replies thus far guys

 

I guess I'm a bit underwhelmed with pcp 'cos I've been spoiled a bit...

 

After giving up airshooting over 20 years ago - I recently got the opportunity to accompany a rimfire shooter several fine nights over 200 acres of grazed fields while on holiday in cornwall...

 

I'm not admitting I used it but - you can see where this is coming from now?

 

Yip - clean efficient kills 70 yds+ with only an occasional escape - or yell

 

:( My thinking was that the airsporter I used those 20 years ago was probably nowhere near as powerfull as a modern legal pcp - and the multi shot would despatch them swiftly once disabled - not so unless the ones in leicester are tougher than average :blink:

 

I'm off out now to have a go at magpie deekin - with a single deek with fishing line twitcher - and some cherry staked tomato's. tips i picked up searching on this forum

 

ttfn B)

[Axe]

I know what you mean about rimfire. I'm about to apply for my FAC, but know that i'll be keeping my 12lb'er. Even with the stopping power of a rimmy a fluffed shot is still a fluffed shot. If you can master you 12lb'er imagine how you'd be with the rimmy. Well thats my thinking anyway.

 

Plink Plink Plink.

Regards,

 

Axe.