fieldwanderer Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Right, I'm going to start needing help from you guys soon so I thought I'd keep it all in one place. I'm now the proud owner of a 10mth old springer bitch called Daisy (yes the one that was on here), she's great and everyone's over the moon to have her in the home but she is going to need a little work (as turk said). First problem is she'll do odd things most times you tell her to like "sit" but only for a second or two, is there anything I can do to get her used to staying for longer? I've got a feeling I'll be needing her to learn to stay put a bit better before I can get her doing other things... The next is pulling on the lead, she's got bags of energy which is great and once she's used to coming back to me when required I'll be happy with letting her fly around the local playing field to her heart's content - but not just yet so I need her to stop strangling herself I've just read online that I need to stay put until the lead goes slack before I move and if she pulls I need to stop (so, in effect, she learns that pulling gets her nowhere but a slack lead means she can walk as much as she likes) That sound like a good plan to you? I'm going to take it easy for the first few days though (unless told otherwise) and give her a chance to settle in a bit better before I start ordering her about too much Oh, last but not least - correcting her, how do I go about letting her know something I say means she's done wrong? (not badly wrong, just when she's not getting it quite right). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 easy way of getting a sit for longer. Treats get some cheap, low salt, sausages. in a dish with little water and chuck in microwave until cooked. brake up tiny tiny bits, i use pea sizes, tell daisy to sit, as soon as bum touches the floor give treat. this will speed up the time it takes her to sit. after a while you can tell her to sit but this time let her see the treat but dont give it her. count to 3(in your head) and give treat. then one she is sitting there for the count of 3 without moving then count to 5, then 10 and so on until you get her to stay there, you can then try walking around her then going to her and treating , then out the room and back. in time you can faze out the treat and just praise her most dogs will do anything for food, its just the timing you need to get ring so that you rewarding the right behavior. hope this helps All the best Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 fieldwanderer, Have a look through here: http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...showtopic=47072 NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Thankyou very much fellas, went out before reading your replies and seemed to be getting somewhere - she seems keen to please / learn and seems to have worked out who's boss already. The one concern is when she got it wrong I was telling her "NO" in a dissapproving voice (rather than an all out telling off) but I think I need to save NO for real problems and find a new word for other times. nttf; I've briefly read through your 8 week obedience course before I picked her up - I'll have a proper read tonight and may well have a load of questions for you in the not-so-distant. Thanks again, I'll keep you posted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom&Dexter Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) Get some pics up Try AHa said aa instead of NO if that would help (hope that makes sense) only if she is being a pest not if she has not done something quite right just carry on untill she has and reward her when she does good . how much training has she had prior to you getting her Edited January 17, 2010 by Tom&Dexter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Honestly, I don't really know what she's had in the way of training - I get the impression she got the basics but was then spoiled for a month or so and lost some of it. A-A sounds good to me, and I'll make a point of changing to it in the morning when she has a walk. One new, unexpected problem - she had a wee accident (literally) in the living room earlier and didn't seem to give any warning, I'm ashamed to say I wasn't quick enough to "tell her off" but that's besides the point, any suggestions if this carries on? she's been good as gold sofar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom&Dexter Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Honestly, I don't really know what she's had in the way of training - I get the impression she got the basics but was then spoiled for a month or so and lost some of it. A-A sounds good to me, and I'll make a point of changing to it in the morning when she has a walk. One new, unexpected problem - she had a wee accident (literally) in the living room earlier and didn't seem to give any warning, I'm ashamed to say I wasn't quick enough to "tell her off" but that's besides the point, any suggestions if this carries on? she's been good as gold sofar clean it up and take her outside only check her if you catch her in the act Praise her lots when she is doing her business out side. ive traind my dog to pee/etc on comand bussy boy and get clean. She is still youn and in a new place accidents will happen Stick at it What she like to the wistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thanks again all. T&D; I've not tried a whistle as yet but as far as I know she's not had any experience of them. Had another accident earlier but I was out at work so couldn't've done anything. Last night I saw what was happening but wasn't sure what to do about it (and missed the chance), I'll make sure she's praised outside from now on. She's still doing quite well; she's pulling at the lead a lot less now and will stay put most of the time for longer than when we started especially if she gets some input from me - eye contact and a raised finger, held in sitting position gently with the lead or a treat on the way (the latter often has the opposite effect) though I'm fairly sure I'm wrong to do any of these and don't do it often, it's worth mentioning I suppose. I've even got her sitting until I release her with "okay" most times, she seems to forget and / or get distracted pretty easily.... Next questions; Sit - If I say sit, she doesn't do it there and then - she has to either come to me and sit or more commonly she comes to me and doesn't sit - but if she's close by she'll sit on command a good 8 out of 10 times - opinions/suggestions? Do I just ignore her being ignorant? e,g; I tell her to sit but she's busy watching a crow and ignores me, do I pop the lead and repeat the instruction or do I pretend it never happened and move on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 By my reckoning you've only had her a few days? I would be giving her time to get used to her new family and surroundings before issuing any commands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 By my reckoning you've only had her a few days? I would be giving her time to get used to her new family and surroundings before issuing any commands. You're right - and that's exactly what I was going to do but she just gives the impression she wants to learn, she enjoys it. So, naturally I've started her off with a couple of basics to make walks more interesting for us both. Nothing major and not proper training sessions but she seemed to "want" something to get on with if you see what I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom&Dexter Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Go back to total basics find a local trainer doesent need to be a gun dog trainer. PM Sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 And replied Tom, thankyou. I don't think I can afford a proper trainer at present but I'll look into it, I seem to be getting somewhere with what I've been doing though (especially given the time she's been here) so I'm quite hopeful about the future. She's doing well I think, thanks for the help sofar - I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mec 9000 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 You really need to get a good book and learn about dogs. A good trainer can get the dog to obey him but he cannot get the dog to obey you. You must get the respect of the dog and the best way to learn how to achieve this is by learning about dogs and how to train them so a book is by far the best as you can re refer to the chapters as you go and adapt it to yourself and the dog. You hav'nt tried the whistle yet, ok, so what is a whistle, nothing more than a means of communication that serves several purposes. it's range can be heard better than voice at distance, it is easier to be calm with it than an increasingly irate voice, I bet you can tell when an owners dog is giving trouble by the words and tone of his voice when you hear but can't see the owner, so too the whistle, go to a shoot and listen to the quiet and calm toots and watch the dogs respond, I also bet that without seeing the owner or their dog you will pick out the one who is problematic just by hearing the whistles. If you can do this then the dog can also. What I'm saying is with the whistle it is easier to control yourself. Regards letting a Spanial run till it's hearts content in the local park is a sure way of undoing any steadiness in the dog unless you can trust it 100% I would never do that, all free running is with a purpose and a means to an end. even out of shooting season the dog does in play what I expect it to do when the season starts again. Everyone on the site will do their best to help with various ways they have overcome certain problems but I urge you to pick a good book, study it well and put it into practice. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Gerry, thankyou for that - I'll get searching for a book. O.k. fair point about letting her run, I did say not just yet though. Daisy's taken to me really well, I know it takes time but I'm surprised how well she's settled in already. Anyway, I'll get a book sorted and carry on for a bit but I'm sure I'll find more to quiz you all with..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Book in the pipelines "training spaniels" can't think who the auther is but it's aimed at working dogs. Also got a halter, she's not too keen on it but it's working really well; instantly no more pulling on the lead and she responds more regularly to commands and to praise so I can see how having it will have a positive effect and even after three sessions she's starting to accept it. Still not doing anything too chalenging, sit, wait, come and usually reward 50/50 but always praise. How we're getting on? well, I'm her bestest friend (I feed, play and walk ) but she also accepts me as boss - at least most of the time . She's not very good with "heel" but I'll work on that when she's used to not pulling on the lead. Found another problem; I had a bit of time out earlier and went out after some pigeons - Unfortunately, when she saw the shot gun she seemed nervous and wouldn't come to me I had the gun out the other day and fired onto snap-caps a few times and she seemed fine but she certainly seemed un-nerved today - but that's something to worry about at a later date I suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Is it Joe Irvine training Spaniels book.. I dont use a halty i just use a normal slip lead but once over the dogs head i twist the loop again and this 2nd loop is then placed over the dogs nose to form the halty.. Ref shooting go careful you dont want a gun shy dog..... you maybe better off getting a starting pistol and fire this well away from the dog to start to get her use to the noise, before moving onto the shotgun Good luck with the training Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Spaniel; that's the book All I've done sofar is the click of the fireing pins on snap-caps, I can't vouch for the previous owner though. She'll not come to me if I'm holding a gun, even a hair-drier But, as said, I've got plenty of other things to work on before I get to guns, it was more an observation than anything. I may move onto a loop in the lead to form a halti before going back to a normal lead but I'll stick with the halti for now in the hope she'll get used to not pulling on the lead. She's retrieving balls etc quite well (only in the garden sofar), would it be an idea to throw a dead pigeon instead of a ball yet or would you wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) Hi I would still wait a bit longer before introducing cold game to her. But when you are ready i think i introduce mine at around 12 months, i placed the pigeon in a stocking. What i did was to throw a couple of retrieves out for her with a dummy, trying to throw them at the same spot each time, then on the 3rd retrieve i changed the canvas dummy to the pigeon in a stocking and again throwed it out to the same spot as per the earlier retrieves as soon as she picked it up i gave her the whistle command and loads of praise called her back took it from her and ended the lesson.. Pigeon feathers stick in their mouths and they dont like it....if you read the book Joe train his dogs on fur first (Bunnies)and leaved the pigeons until last, but after 4 years of owning a springer i am only now looking at some land with bunnies on, so the only game mine have been used on is Pigeons and now this season Pheasants. Training i use tennis balls great when you have them quartering, canvas dummies and rabbit fur covered dummies . You could also place some pheasant wings onto the dummies before moving onto the cold game which will help the dog get use to mouthing something a little different. I think with the gun situation i use to bring the shotgun down into the kitchen and sit on the floor and let her climb about over me, sniffing the gun etc...i then used a starting pistol and while she was quartering i would get some one else to fire it and then giver her the whistle command to sit....then moved onto firing the shotgun at a distance, again me with the dog sitting at my feet and someone else firing the gun at a distance, just watched the dog was not frightened of the noise and decreased the distance between the dog and the gun, until i have her sitting next to me while im pigeon shooting Edited January 24, 2010 by Spaniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mec 9000 Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Try to make the introduction to a gun part of the natural progression of things. When out walking I use a stick and every now and again swing it onto passing birds as I would a shotgun, the idea being to get the dog used to such a happening and when all is well I progress to the gun, no bangs at this stage. I have left the gun where the dog can sniff it if it's curiosity gets going and on an odd occasion have fed dinner from the stock. It's all a case of trying to build the dogs confidence through planned progressive stages. You have to remember that your dog should have a natural instinct to hunt and you want to harness that into hunting to be within the range of the gun, allow it to do nothing that might lead the dog into thinking it can hunt wherever it wants whenever it wants, to do this without curbing it's instinct takes thought and patience. From the moment I start training a pup every game and every outing is planned with the out come of a shooting dog in mind. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Well, nothing much to report but a quick update; I'm an agency H.g.v driver, which means I only work when and where I'm needed - which is why I can spend so much time with daisy - trouble is; sometimes I do have to go - and truckers often sleep in the cab! So, since I left her yesterday morning, my parents and brother have been looking after her until this evening and she's misbehaved! she's taken to chewing things she shouldn't - any advice? I'm not sure why but I notice when I've not been about for a while, her progress goes backwards a bit - 2 steps forward, 1 back if you see what I mean? Another concern is she's really nervous, she's scared of people she doesn't know, walking in really dark places, strange/unexpected sounds, other dogs and anything that moves when she doesn't expect it to - any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom&Dexter Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 She is still settling in mate Whats the history with her she may just be a nervous dog she is still young and a whole new routine and home will be a big thing for her, if you are having doubts or questions can you not contact the previous owner you need to make sure you leave her alone at times aswell when you arnt at work to prep her for the times you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Tom, that's pretty much the answer I was looking for - i.e. it may just be that she's not quite settled in yet - yes I can contact her old owner but, given your answer, I'd rather not worry him unless I have to. I'll see how she goes, maybe she's just testing what she can/can't get away with. Is there anything I can do to help her with nervousness? I've been getting her to sit when other dogs are nearby so she can watch them walk past and hopefuly see there's nothing to worry about, a few have come and sniffed her and (though she doesn't look keen) she does really well to stay put and I hope she'll learn eventually. She does get a decent amount of time to herself/with other people when I need to do other things but good point. No book yet though (out of stock) so if anyone's got a copy of the book mentioned above that I could buy / borrow I'd be very grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mec 9000 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Best advice I can give at this stage is to buy a dog cage and put it in an area where the dog can retire to, it will save your furnishings for a start. Dogs need their own place to rest, where they can reflect on the days happenings and be at peace, they will come to regard it as their pad. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliespaniel Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 my bitch belle is 10 month old but she lives with her half brother shadow 5years old she is learning to hunt by following him but doing what shes told is something else she is wild but she will grow out of it she was intoduced togun fire at six month sat in a hide with kenny boy 30 banging away missing pigeons but she never batted aneye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) I've just made my first real mistake; She's ended up off the lead a few times, accidently etc and though she's not great with "come" she doesn't stray far really and will "come" eventually. So, as we both seemed to be bored this afternoon I took her over the playing field for a game of fetch (I make her wait to be told before I let her fetch). So, let her off the lead and she went mad for a bit which was fine - she probably needed to let off some steam. started playing fetch, still fine - until she spotted the worlds biggest puddle (more like a minging marsh) and decided on a different game Not really a problem, took her home and chucked her in the bath (she needed one anyway), baths don't really seem to bother her but I must've given her the impression I wasn't happy (well, I wasn't really but I wasn't angry or nasty in any way). She seems to have lost trust in me now though, as though she's expecting somthing bad to happen whenever I go near her or vice-versa, just hope I've not caused a lasting problem - knowing her though, all will be fine again after our evening walkies Edited January 28, 2010 by fieldwanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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