CPSA - why

[Yellow Bear]

As requested by another on PM I have put this up as a new topic from the depth of another thread, not to start a flame war but to answer a question no one has satisfactotaly answered to me in the past.

 

This is a genuine question - what do CPSA do, or have they done, for the run of the mill /social shot who is not interested in competitions or will never be good enough (for whatever reason) to crawl out of the lower classes, or even for shooting in general.

 

D

[MC]

I'll move this as well then,

 

Yellow Bear,

 

I will amswer your question, The CPSA does nothing at all for the run of the mill/Social shooter. They are not interested in your views or your opinions, They only want to take your money and give nothing in return.

[Nicky T]

It's a good question and one that obviously causes some contention amongst shooters whether they are past, present or possibly future members of the CPSA or not

 

As a relative newcomer to the sport I don't have all the answers but my personal point of view differs from both Yellow Bears and MC's in the fact that I'm not currently looking at what the CPSA aren't doing for grass roots shooters, shooting in general or anything else for that matter, but am viewing things from the perspective of "what can we help the CPSA to do" for all of the above (and more potentially).

 

Like it or not, having a united front is the best way (in my opinion) that we can start to make a difference. Getting involved in that organisation and pushing it to start proactively developing shooting is the route that have chosen to take rather than standing by and waiting for something to happen....

[MC]

It's a good question and one that obviously causes some contention amongst shooters whether they are past, present or possibly future members of the CPSA or not

 

As a relative newcomer to the sport I don't have all the answers but my personal point of view differs from both Yellow Bears and MC's in the fact that I'm not currently looking at what the CPSA aren't doing for grass roots shooters, shooting in general or anything else for that matter, but am viewing things from the perspective of "what can we help the CPSA to do" for all of the above (and more potentially).

 

Like it or not, having a united front is the best way (in my opinion) that we can start to make a difference. Getting involved in that organisation and pushing it to start proactively developing shooting is the route that have chosen to take rather than standing by and waiting for something to happen....

 

That is the way it should be Nicky however as I am sure that Cat will tell you the CPSA has hardly been interested in the views of Registered sporting shooters so why on earth they should be interested in the grass roots of the sport I do not know.

 

From what I understand they were not interested in helping the shoot at Offton when they had a noise complaint despite the ground owners being trade members.

 

Why should the grass roots shooters do anything to help the CPSA when they get nothing in return?

[Nicky T]

The CPSA does nothing at all for the run of the mill/Social shooter. They are not interested in your views or your opinions, They only want to take your money and give nothing in return.

 

I think you'd be surprised how willing the regional committees are to actually listen and take on board feedback that will help them improve things in their area - as a total newcomer to regional CPSA politics I was pleasantly surprised at how willing their were to listen to my points and are already acting on some

 

When we've got the North sorted I'll get you a nice Premier Plus Ground in Essex

[beretta]

cpsa does nothing for the run of the mill shooters if they are not members. obvious.

 

if people want to join they will.

[MC]

Regional committees are one thing they may listen but what clout have they got to ACTUALLY get anything done? How much do the powers that be listen to the regional committees?

 

Maybe Essex doesn't want a premier plus ground, just a few registered shoots would do.

[Nicky T]

That is the way it should be Nicky however as I am sure that Cat will tell you the CPSA has hardly been interested in the views of Registered sporting shooters so why on earth they should be interested in the grass roots of the sport I do not know.

 

In my book they SHOULD be interested purely because the grass roots shooters represent the vast majority of shooters in the UK and the more that they can develop that percentile into CPSA members the better!

[MC]

cpsa does nothing for the run of the mill shooters if they are not members. obvious.

 

if people want to join they will.

 

 

Far point B,

 

But I am a member and a grass roots shooter so what do they do for me?

 

Thats it still nothing

[MC]

In my book they SHOULD be interested purely because the grass roots shooters represent the vast majority of shooters in the UK and the more that they can develop that percentile into CPSA members the better!

 

Absolutely correct,

 

You can see it, I can see it, the only problem is the CPSA can't see it.

[Catamong]

Yes, well said Nick, glad you've made the commitment to try and put something back into the sport.

 

I'll answer Yellow Bears question with another question, "What do BASC do for the ordinary shooter who is too dumn / lazy / ignorant to become a paid up member of BASC..??"............................................... Answer - absolutely nothing, why should they..??

 

Surely the same analogy applies to the CPSA, they're not there to represent the interests of the "straw baler" who'd rather spend his money on fags and scratchcards than join a recognised shooting body, what a waste of money..!!

 

Here's an extract from the CPSA website, it doesn't say anything about looking after the interests of non-members, I think it's a case of "join up, or shut up".

 

The Clay Pigeon Shooting Association is the national governing body for the sport in England. It is recognised by Sports England, The Department of the Environment, The Home Office, Police etc., and it is a constituent member of the International Clay Target Shooting Council of Great Britain and Ireland.

 

It's main roles are to promote and encourage the development of the sport, to liaise with government departments and police to represent the interests of CPSA members, to regulate and develop all aspects of the sport (technical and otherwise); to promote and organise national competitions; and to select England teams for major international events, some of which are staged by the CPSA.

 

Membership of the CPSA is open to the general public and offers an extensive package of free benefits which include insurance, magazine, information, publicity, advice, classification, badges, etc.

 

You pays your money, and takes your choice.

 

Cat.

[Nicky T]

Regional committees are one thing they may listen but what clout have they got to ACTUALLY get anything done? How much do the powers that be listen to the regional committees?

 

Maybe Essex doesn't want a premier plus ground, just a few registered shoots would do.

 

Without the regions have their affairs in order what chance do we have of sorting out the UK as a whole?

 

For example how come the National Intercounties is so poorly attended? As far as I know Lancashire didn't even have any sporting selection shoots or send a county team last year. As a Lancashire Sporting shooter this iritated me to the point that I wanted to do something about it. It's at a regional level that changes can be made and eventually I truly believe that these will filter through across the board until they happen on a national scale

[beretta]

15 years ago the intercounties shoot was packed out every year. down hill since then.

[MC]

Then surely Cat they should change their name to The association for registered clay target shooters because as I have already said I am a member and a "Strawbale" shooter and they do nothing for me either.

 

When approached for insurance for a "Have a go" stand at a local country fair they were not interested saying it was too dangerous. This was said without any questions asked.

 

So how did they know it was too dangerous? How did they know that it wasn't going to be staged in the middle of a 300 acre field with dozens of CPSA approved safety officers and coaches on tap and also how was this "promoting and encouraging the development of the sport"

 

A good friend of mine has an air rifle range in the back of a trailer that he takes to a lot of country fairs etc to introduce people into the sport of target rifle shooting and the BASC support him all the way.

[Catamong]

For example how come the National Intercounties is so poorly attended?

 

I'm afraid it's not a popular event, they always seem to put it on during October half term week when a lot of people are away, and by that time in the year, a lot of people are suffering from "Competition Fatigue", (as PDLM would say).

 

Some Counties can't even raise a team, I think Herts struggles, (I've had to turn down a few requests, you can't be in two places at one time, if it's a choice between the Canaries or a 100 birder at Doveridge, I know where I'd rather be. ).

 

Cat.

[Mungler]

Yes, well said Nick, glad you've made the commitment to try and put something back into the sport.

 

I'll answer Yellow Bears question with another question, "What do BASC do for the ordinary shooter who is too dumn / lazy / ignorant to become a paid up member of BASC..??"............................................... Answer - absolutely nothing, why should they..??

 

Surely the same analogy applies to the CPSA, they're not there to represent the interests of the "straw baler" who'd rather spend his money on fags and scratchcards than join a recognised shooting body, what a waste of money..!!

 

Here's an extract from the CPSA website, it doesn't say anything about looking after the interests of non-members, I think it's a case of "join up, or shut up".

 

The Clay Pigeon Shooting Association is the national governing body for the sport in England. It is recognised by Sports England, The Department of the Environment, The Home Office, Police etc., and it is a constituent member of the International Clay Target Shooting Council of Great Britain and Ireland.

 

It's main roles are to promote and encourage the development of the sport, to liaise with government departments and police to represent the interests of CPSA members, to regulate and develop all aspects of the sport (technical and otherwise); to promote and organise national competitions; and to select England teams for major international events, some of which are staged by the CPSA.

 

Membership of the CPSA is open to the general public and offers an extensive package of free benefits which include insurance, magazine, information, publicity, advice, classification, badges, etc.

 

You pays your money, and takes your choice.

 

Cat.

 

 

 

 

Yeah Cat, it's going oh so well for the CPSA whereas the BASC are just out there struggling to......

 

I think the CPSA should be left to its members - as Cat says it's there just for its members - they will get the organisation they deserve

 

Poor old Cat, just can't bring yourself to say that the CPSA is failing grass roots shooters and hay balers, and then you wonder why it's flat on its botty and the regionals are flopping and folding.

[Catamong]

Yeah Cat, it's going oh so well for the CPSA whereas the BASC are just out there struggling to......

 

I think the CPSA should be left to its members - as Cat says it's there just for its members - they will get the organisation they deserve

 

Poor old Cat, just can't bring yourself to say that the CPSA is failing grass roots shooters and hay balers, and then you wonder why it's flat on its botty and the regionals are flopping and folding.

 

Why should the CPSA pander to the "hay balers", who can't be bothered to join, as I said before, "join up or shut up"..??

 

Cat.

[Nicky T]

15 years ago the intercounties shoot was packed out every year. down hill since then.

 

what changed?

[Mungler]

Why should the CPSA pander to the "hay balers", who can't be bothered to join, as I said before, "join up or shut up"..??

 

Cat.

 

 

 

Erm and you wonder why the regionals are failing and the comps emptying out?

 

The two minutes before the CPSA shuts it's doors you can be rest assured that you and the half a dozen remaining competitive shooters are or rather were well represented by the governing body

 

In the meantime the hay balers will be and will remain "banged out"

Edited January 26, 2010 by Mungler

[Catamong]

Don't worry, the CPSA will still be around long after you and I have departed this earth, and here's another prediction, membership will be pretty static at around 20 - 25,000 paid up members.

 

Unless of course we get another gun outrage like hungerford or Dunblane, (Heaven forbid), then both CPSA and BASC will see a significant rise in member numbers.

 

Cat.

[Mungler]

Don't worry, the CPSA will still be around long after you and I have departed this earth, and here's another prediction, membership will be pretty static at around 20 - 25,000 paid up members.

 

Unless of course we get another gun outrage like hungerford or Dunblane, (Heaven forbid), then both CPSA and BASC will see a significant rise in member numbers.

 

Cat.

 

 

Means nothing without the support of shooters, the ground owners and the regionals

 

It's a downwards spiral.

 

I would check your figures on current full paying members.

[Chard]

I must confess that I don't look much further than what the CPSA does for me

 

I don't really care what it does for people who won't join it. I don't consider that that's relevant.

 

There's nothing wrong with being a "competitive shooter" and I don't really see how you can be one without being a member. It is them that administer the classification system, which, as I've said before, is even used in non-registered competitions .

 

If a shooter decides, like I did, that banging about at social shoots doesn't do it for them any more and they want to take it further and start competitive shooting, I don't see much wrong with the idea of the CPSA and registered shoots. It's a sound idea. However, there are currently many faults and I don't really know enough about the people in charge to point specific fingers of blame, but I can see that the set-up needs looking at fairly urgently. Whilst I understand the need for the CPSA to set standards at grounds for registered competitions, I can see that they must be going about it wrongly, purely because grounds are leaving the organisation, voluntarily or otherwise, in increasing numbers.

 

If the CPSA were to fade away, I would be looking for there to be a replacement, to administer competition shooting, set standards, classify shooters etc etc etc. In fact, just what the CPSA do now, so why bother with a new organisation? Interested shooters should work towards bringing about change where it's needed, which with a few more people like Nick, could possibly happen.

 

If you don't bother with competitive shooting, don't want to join, then no, the CPSA do **** all for you - why should they? But why do you want to **** it up for those who do want to shoot competitively?. If you want to shoot haybales, shoot haybales. The last time I checked, CPSA membership wasn't compulsory.

[Catamong]

I would check your figures on current full paying members.

 

Again, from the CPSA website, "membership numbers at the end of November 2009 were 25,052".

 

If you think we've got a problem take a look across the pond, the American version of the CPSA, (which covers only Sporting), the NSCA, is also experiencing static membership levels, and they've only been shooting Sporting for a few years.

 

Cat.

[Mungler]

I must confess that I don't look much further than what the CPSA does for me

 

I don't really care what it does for people who won't join it. I don't consider that that's relevant.

 

There's nothing wrong with being a "competitive shooter" and I don't really see how you can be one without being a member. It is them that administer the classification system, which, as I've said before, is even used in non-registered competitions .

 

If a shooter decides, like I did, that banging about at social shoots doesn't do it for them any more and they want to take it further and start competitive shooting, I don't see much wrong with the idea of the CPSA and registered shoots. It's a sound idea. However, there are currently many faults and I don't really know enough about the people in charge to point specific fingers of blame, but I can see that the set-up needs looking at fairly urgently. Whilst I understand the need for the CPSA to set standards at grounds for registered competitions, I can see that they must be going about it wrongly, purely because grounds are leaving the organisation, voluntarily or otherwise, in increasing numbers.

 

If the CPSA were to fade away, I would be looking for there to be a replacement, to administer competition shooting, set standards, classify shooters etc etc etc. In fact, just what the CPSA do now, so why bother with a new organisation? Interested shooters should work towards bringing about change where it's needed, which with a few more people like Nick, could possibly happen.

 

If you don't bother with competitive shooting, don't want to join, then no, the CPSA do **** all for you - why should they? But why do you want to **** it up for those who do want to shoot competitively?. If you want to shoot haybales, shoot haybales. The last time I checked, CPSA membership wasn't compulsory.

 

 

 

But people would join it and would want to join it if it offered something for them.

 

Why is the CPSA just about competitive target shooting of CPSA registered events (end of)?

 

As you say, the CPSA collects scores and organises shoots. Well shoots get organised for every weekend regardless (and would be organised if there was no CPSA) and so that just leaves "the scores".

 

So, we have the nub and pure essence of the CPSA - they collect scores.

 

Excellent. And a top job they do

Edited January 26, 2010 by Mungler

[Catamong]

Excellent. And a top job they do

 

I'm afraid you've not been a member long enough to form an objective opinion on that one, what was it, all of 12 months before the dummy came out of the pram, how many CPSA shoots did you attend, was it one or possibly even two.??

 

I'll be the first to admit that there's plenty wrong with the CPSA, there always has been, and there always will be, I'm just glad that there's guys like Nick who are prepared to give up their spare time to try and put things right, instead of crawling around wingeing like a yellow belly..!!

 

Cat.