SirFox Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 They can't and don't fly off when hit in the shoulder. You must have missed. Yes, but not all shots bird will act the same after collecting a chest shot. If it is alert when shot then it will most likely fly, be your aim perfect . Ideally you wan't the pellet to penetrate and then expand all its engery into the quarry. That's what makes for humane kills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james w Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 It's not penetration that kills humanely! It's the transfer of the shocking energy. With sub-12ft I'd got head and neck shots only. Chest shots at close range, but If I was shooting at close range the head/neck would be an easier target. well amusing that you are talking about through the breast not the wing to go through the breast meat, the bone and then make it to the heart/lungs, your going to need a lot of penetration. using .22 i havent managed to kill a wood pigeon by shooting it through the chest or wing... at all... ever... in my life you dont seem to understand how powerful 11/12 ftlb is against a pigeon, weather it is .177 or .22. next time you shoot a pigeon, leave half of one breast on and shoot it from 15/20 yards and see the damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covlocks Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 ...........of course it also depends on what pellet you are using as to whether it flies or stays on the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFox Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 well amusing that you are talking about through the breast not the wing to go through the breast meat, the bone and then make it to the heart/lungs, your going to need a lot of penetration. using .22 i havent managed to kill a wood pigeon by shooting it through the chest or wing... at all... ever... in my life you dont seem to understand how powerful 11/12 ftlb is against a pigeon, weather it is .177 or .22. next time you shoot a pigeon, leave half of one breast on and shoot it from 15/20 yards and see the damage In an earlier post I said that shooting a a pigeon in the chest with any caliber wasn't ideal. I was alos saying that .22 packs more of a punch than .22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 now now girls, put thee handbags away i agree with the body shots at .177, couldnt say for .22 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downie Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 In an earlier post I said that shooting a a pigeon in the chest with any caliber wasn't ideal. What about No.6 shot then? It's very much lighter than a .177 pellet, but a single bit of shot to the chest can kill a pigeon in the air, at 30yds. That's all penetration - very little 'shock'. And I'm pretty sure that when birds are flying at 30yds out, 12g shooters don't only go for head shots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFox Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 What about No.6 shot then? It's very much lighter than a .177 pellet, but a single bit of shot to the chest can kill a pigeon in the air, at 30yds. That's all penetration - very little 'shock'. And I'm pretty sure that when birds are flying at 30yds out, 12g shooters don't only go for head shots! Actually I shoot shotguns and I mainly use no.7 for pigeon It provied betetr patterns at sub-30yards. What I'm saying is that when using a rifle it is the shocking energy that is the main killer. For instance, I would not use no.7 shot when shooting duck or pheasant. The lack of penetration afforded by that shot size would lack the penetration and energy transfer. I wouldn't use no.3 either as you would get over penetration and therefore less than clean kills. Anyway you can't compare shotguns and rifles! They work on completly different principles. And how do you know that a single no.6 shot would kill a pigeon? What part of the chest? At exactly 30 yards or slightly under? What postion is the bird in when hit? Your reply is too broad and too vauge. If a pigeon was hit with a single piece of shot then I doubt it would be a clean kill, though the initial smash up on ground would proablly finish it off. We are normally looking to get around 120 pellets in a 30icnh circle, therefore we will get at least 20 pellets on the bird, or around there about. If your only putting one pellet on the bird, which is doubt full within a 30 yard kill zone, I would review your cartridge/gun combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downie Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I guess the point I was trying to make is just that MANY pigeons are killed by a single piece of No.6 shot (even more are missed entirely!), and very few 12g shooters will only take shots that they know 100% will be clean kills. Most hope for the best and are happy with a 50% kill ratio. So I'm wondering why air rifle shooters get in such a giant fuss over the morality of 'the perfect shot' and the rights and wrongs of .22/.177. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I once shot shot one straight through the head, checked to see that it was a good hit which it was - in one side and out the other. I left it and went to peep round the corner, where I spent a short time stalking other feeding pigeons. Came back to the one I'd shot and it's chest was still moving as it was breathing. I think it was totally brain dead but I didn't like it. Had a simialr thing with the shot gun, where a pellet had passed through the head, went to pick it up and it flew away! Went round in a small circle and flew straight at my head, had to duck and it went over my head and flew into (as in crashed into) a bush, laying there with it's wings open hanging in the bush, which was all very odd. Gave it another blast which sorted it out. Again must have been brain dead. Generally successful with head shots but will start doing more body shots, which I normally avoid as you shoot through the meat and there is a chance of grazing the breast. Back shots sound like a good idea as there is less to shoot through - can't say I'd thought of this before! Will try it next ive hit a fair few pigeons in the head with the shotgun and it amazes me how they can still fly away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwelchy Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS go for head shoots,not fair on the quarry if you dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLeic Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) I guess the point I was trying to make is just that MANY pigeons are killed by a single piece of No.6 shot (even more are missed entirely!), and very few 12g shooters will only take shots that they know 100% will be clean kills. Most hope for the best and are happy with a 50% kill ratio. So I'm wondering why air rifle shooters get in such a giant fuss over the morality of 'the perfect shot' and the rights and wrongs of .22/.177. i would argue against this i think every reasonable shooter trys to make 100% (or as near to) sure that the shot will be a clean kill but with shot guns you are talking about a random scattering of shot in a 30 inch circle and having to guess the lead aswell so in these cases most are happy with a 50% ratio (in terms of carts to kills). Now if they knew a certain number of pellets would be in an exact place they would want 100% thats why we "point a shotgun" and "aim a rifle" my shotgun would through enough pellets for me to be looking at around 20 - 25 pellets either in the bird or near as damn it at the ranges i shoot i cant gaurantee where they will be in relation to the head of the bird at 30 yards but id expect multiple vital hits such that id be very confident of it dieing cleanly but sometimes it just doesnt work out that way (random chance half might hit the wing for instance ofr a non leathal part of the body where it doesnt stop it automatically)but id say i have more reason to be confident of a body shot kill with 20 peices of 6 shot than you have with one peice of .177 im sure there are a few flukes where a pigeon dies of a single shot of no.6 but thats not what is intended or aimed for when it was shot its maximum vital hits with minimum breast meat damage. Edited February 17, 2010 by JamesLeic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFox Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I guess the point I was trying to make is just that MANY pigeons are killed by a single piece of No.6 shot (even more are missed entirely!), and very few 12g shooters will only take shots that they know 100% will be clean kills. Most hope for the best and are happy with a 50% kill ratio. So I'm wondering why air rifle shooters get in such a giant fuss over the morality of 'the perfect shot' and the rights and wrongs of .22/.177. 50% kill ratio? Are you joking? What you mean by kill. Hit or miss, or kill or wound? You should be shootign targets and not game if you can only get a 50% kill ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFox Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS go for head shoots,not fair on the quarry if you dont. Well said that man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLeic Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well said that man Ive always used head or neck with an air rifle or between the shoulders if they are facing away and ive got some elevation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Have shot pigeon from 20 feet away in the chest with a 177 pcp and they have flown away, so I'll be having no more of that - Head is always preferable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFox Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Have shot pigeon from 20 feet away in the chest with a 177 pcp and they have flown away, so I'll be having no more of that - Head is always preferable Chest shots do work, yes, but the OP asked what would be better. To wait for a head shot ot take a chest shot. Wait for the head shot of course. The thread has been taken out of its natural context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 head shots only. theres a chance of the brid flyingoff with a cheast shot, theres no chanc of that happening with a head shot. dont take the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFox Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 head shots only. theres a chance of the brid flyingoff with a cheast shot, theres no chanc of that happening with a head shot. dont take the risk. Hear, hear. Well said, aaron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFox Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I guess the point I was trying to make is just that MANY pigeons are killed by a single piece of No.6 shot (even more are missed entirely!), and very few 12g shooters will only take shots that they know 100% will be clean kills. Most hope for the best and are happy with a 50% kill ratio. So I'm wondering why air rifle shooters get in such a giant fuss over the morality of 'the perfect shot' and the rights and wrongs of .22/.177. I understand the point you're making though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 It's not penetration that kills humanely! It's the transfer of the shocking energy. With sub-12ft I'd got head and neck shots only. Chest shots at close range, but If I was shooting at close range the head/neck would be an easier target How many pigeons have you ACTUALLY shot with airguns? Ive shot hundreds and hundreds, and ill take my shot where i can get it, at 30 yards with a .22 or a .177 if you dont kill it....YOU ARE ****....go back to targets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 How many pigeons have you ACTUALLY shot with airguns? Ive shot hundreds and hundreds, and ill take my shot where i can get it, at 30 yards with a .22 or a .177 if you dont kill it....YOU ARE ****....go back to targets! Baz - I disagree mate - I have shot pigeons 30 feet away in the chest (not from the back where there is less armour) 'cos they wouldn't present with a headshot and they have flown off seemingly unaffected (albeit i would assume that they are fairly affected with a bit of lead in their chest). Would love to agree, but i can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) nope. big puff of feathers came from the shoulder. although the day after that i did find a pigeon carcass about 20 yards away from where i shot so i think it must have flown and then went down and some time in the night charlie got a nice surprise. The clue is in the puff of feathers you mention. That indicates that the pellet went straight through and therefore didn't hit the shoulder. If it had the pigeon would not have been able to fly. Also, if the pigeon was only 20yds away then that's as near a fatal shot as enough. My dog locates pigeons and squirrels that have made off on adrenaline but died within seconds. Without the dog I might not have found them. I drop more stone dead withbody shots using my .177 than I get clan kills with 30g of 6's out of a shotgun. Anyone who seriously thinks that a chest shot with a 12 ft/lb air rifle of any calibre at 30 yds won't kill a pigeon either hasn't shot many pigeons or is using the wrong pellets. AA Fields & JSB Exacts stay in the bird and transfer all their engergy into it. That's in .177 and even more so in .22. As for meat damage - Rubbish! One pellet? How many pellets do you find in a pigeon shot with 30g of number 6's? They're still edible. The original question:- I would take a body shot at 30yds because a) It kills them and b ) I have more chance of success than trying to hit the smaller and more mobile head. I seriously doubt that many people could actually hit a pigeon's head at 30yds in field conditions. Edited February 17, 2010 by UKPoacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) Hear, hear. Well said, aaron. has no one here ever skimmed a pigeons head? -they still fly off and this can happen with a number of things-a sudden gust of wind,a flinch,the pigeon moving its head or a dodgy pellet like i said before ive never had a pigeon at 30yds fly off when ive shot it directly in the chest/neck area! and i shoot a .22 12lbft Edited February 17, 2010 by tomhw100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downie Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 theres a chance of the brid flyingoff with a cheast shot, theres no chanc of that happening with a head shot. dont take the risk. But there's a chance that you'll not get a shot at all if you wait for the perfect, clean head shot. If we agree that we're talking about pest control, I reckon it's better to knock 'em down any way you can, even if that means going forwards to despatch them immediately after the shot, than to faff about waiting for the pigeon to present its head properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downie Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 My dog locates pigeons and squirrels that have made off on adrenaline but died within seconds. Without the dog I might not have found them. I'd love to be able to take my cocker out with the air rifle, but I can't imagine he'll ever be any use where stealth or patience is required! What kind of dog d'you have, and how do you work him (or keep him quiet!) when you're stalking or laying up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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