Criminal Justice Act 1988

[MPT1]

My issue is that I also own an assisted opening Kershaw knife (longer than 3 inches) and a 15" machete, which I also keep in the car. The knife sits in the cubby hole next to the steering wheel and the machete stays behind my seat.

 

Please can someone help me on this, as I want to keep a knife (at least) in my car, as they're extremely handy when you need them and a nightmare if you don't have one! (Possibly a lifesaver too!)

 

Do you keep a knife in the car and have you ever been stopped?

 

I'm sorry but this sounds like utter muppetry.

 

There is no sound or sensible excuse for this and I would expect that the police would support this opinion.

Why not lock them up, or put them away out of reach?

[MC]

I have to add to this as well that in the 22 years I have been driving I have never been stopped and searched and also I cannot ever remember thinking "I could really get out of this scrape if I had a knife"

[gixer1]

I'm sorry but this sounds like utter muppetry.

 

There is no sound or sensible excuse for this and I would expect that the police would support this opinion.

Why not lock them up, or put them away out of reach?

 

 

Why muppetry?? most game keepers have a machete or parang in the car, have you ever walked through woodland with brambles and nettles to get to a feeder? they also keep, wire cutters, rope, an adj spanner, bolt cutters, a hammer, a hatchet....

 

Most of the above tools are also used in car theft, Assult, Burgulury (spelling?)....

 

The point I make is it should be taken on a case by case...

 

if a 50 year old man, wearing olive green in a L200 with straw and feathers in the back and these tools in the truck was stopped in a rural area the copper who did him for a lock knife being there would be a total ****...

 

Now if it's disco joe in an saxo with a burberry base ball cap in a town centre is stopped with a lock knife then by all means there is a suspision...and so it should go to court and the story be told...

 

Gixer

[Vipa]

"I'm inclined to agree but how do you police it. We need to come down very heavy on the ***** who think that carrying a blade is cool and who have no intention other than to use it in a fight or intimidate with it, at the same time we need to ensure that it isn't a problem for someone with a legitimate need for a knofe to carry it."

 

So it is all about using that illegal knife in a crime which is not allowed anyway so the law is already there to deal with such a situation.

 

"The ideal would be to say that just because you're a sportsman and do sportman stuff where you need a knife that you are OK to be carrying one even if you are not at that point indulging in said stuff, however, not all knife crime is commited by black, burberry wearing adolescents living on inner city housing estates. How do you know that the guy with all the fishing gear in the back of the car, that he hasn't used for a month, along with the knives isn't just as happy to use the knife on some old dear as the fish he supposedly catches. The only way to do it is to outlaw the carrying of knives without PROVEABLE good reason. The only PROVEABLE good reason is to be going/returning from fishing/other legitimate activity or the shop from where the knife was bought. It is made very clear that carrying a knife 'just in case' is absolutely no defence."

 

 

So let me understand your point: Some idiot uses a knife in a bad malefic way: Solution - banning of all knifes by all peopel carried even though evidence suggests they don't have a criminal record and are not likely to carry them for an ilegal reason. Good one. You would love LABOUR or is it LIEBOUR?

Ban Ban ban everything.

 

 

"The whole thing is very difficult and I sympathise with the Police as they can't be expected to be able to judge and catagorise people just on age/looks/occupation etc.... Yes it's a pain in the bum for us but, the way it's working at the moment is the only way it can work... NO GREY AREAS, YOU ARE EITHER BREAKING THE LAW OR YOU AREN'T AND THE LAW IS VERY, VERY CLEAR IN THIS INSTANCE!"

 

OK guys another lesson, terrorists come in nice clean defined stereotypes. If a guy has a big beard and speaks a foreign language, ********* terrorists call National guard to send the guy to an airport that is going to send him to Guantanamo Bay. America, *******

 

You have COMPLETELY miss-understood my post and twisted it to suit your bitchin' & moanin'

 

The law states it is illegal to carry a knife that locks or is fixed with a blade of more than 3" in a public place. Your car, on a public highway, is deemed to be 'a public place.'

 

There is a defence available in that you are OK as long as you can show good reason for being in possession of the knife at the time. 'Just in case' is not good reason, on way to/from a stalk is good reason, or any other legitimate activity, any other time is not. Just because you indulge in activities where the legitimate use of a knife is called for, does not give you the right to be in possession of a knife all the time. If that were the case we could all use the excuse of 'possibly needing to carve a joint of beef' for having the 10" carving knife in the boot! The same sensible logic also applies to firearms...... do you leave your gun or rifle in the boot 'just in case you need it?'

 

This particular law is very very difficult for the Police to Police, we all need knives in our daily lives, at the same time we need to get them off the streets. Unfortunately, and please Plod (that IS a term of endearment BTW) members, correct me if I'm wrong, part of the training for the Police DOES NOT include developing psychic abilities so they can pre-determine the motives of everyone they come accross in the field (Minority Report was only a movie, it's not real!!!) and so, the only way they can do thier job is to view everyone with the same level of suspicion or not. Just because you have hunting gear in the boot does not automatically mean you are a very good boy and have no intention of using the knife in a manner other than that which you are claiming it is used for!

 

At the end of the day, if you are not on your way to/from the activity the knife is used for, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE CARRYING THAT KNIFE and deserve everything you get. And before anyone pipes up and says 'but I need a knife in case I break down/need to cut a seat belt/etc...etc...' buy a <3" non locking, folding knife and keep it locked away in the boot of the car. That will do any job a 5" fixed or 3" lock knife will do and it will keep you well within the law!

[Vipa]

The point I make is it should be taken on a case by case...

 

if a 50 year old man, wearing olive green in a L200 with straw and feathers in the back and these tools in the truck was stopped in a rural area the copper who did him for a lock knife being there would be a total ****...

 

Now if it's disco joe in an saxo with a burberry base ball cap in a town centre is stopped with a lock knife then by all means there is a suspision...and so it should go to court and the story be told...

 

Gixer

 

Sadly life isn't that easy and this is one law that really needs to be black and white. If it is left open to interpretaion or left to the Police to draw the line then the grey area gets bigger and the rules get muddier and more difficult to apply! Yes common sense comes into it but at the end of the day if we all treat our knives as we do our guns, i.e. get them out when we need them, put them away when we don't, we will all be fine and can live happily ever after!

Edited April 20, 2010 by Vipa

[MC]

Gixer,

 

Absolutely spot on,

 

However Harfordwmj isn't a gamekeeper and the fact is he is breaking the law by leaving these blades in his car.

[gixer1]

Sadly life isn't that easy!

 

 

 

But that doesn't overcome the fact that the law is applied stupidly sometimes but the people enforcing it...

 

As we are told about our firearms - ignorance should not be an excuse...and police officer or judge who allows the 50 year old wearing olive green to be done for carrying a knife is being ignorant...

 

we can push all the laws to the extreme but it doesn't make it correct, it was better in the days when the coppers gave you an ear bending or kids a clip round the ear...instead of the nanny state of "shop a mate" where basically the police have been given the job of revenue collection...

[fatjoe]

They SHOULD NOT be within reach of your driving position!

 

In the boot for your reasons stated should be fine

agreed all items that can be classed as a weapon should not be in easy reach of the occupant of the vehicle keeping a knife/machete in the passenger compartment is just asking for trouble ..........my advise keep it all in the boot and there shouldn't be a problem

[RC45]

They SHOULD NOT be within reach of your driving position!

 

In the boot for your reasons stated should be fine

 

 

I best put the baseball bat in the boot then... :(

[gixer1]

So what about motorcyclists, with a lock knife in there pocket? that's "in reach" :(

[Bloke]

So what about motorcyclists, with a lock knife in there pocket? that's "in reach" :(

I dont know who you mix with, but in 25 years of biking, rallying etc, I don't know many 'motorcyclists' who carry lock knives in their pockets, unless you class a leatherman as a lock knife, (which it technically is). Yes there are people who ride bikes who are *****, just as in any other ways of life, and some ******s will always want to impress the girls with their weapons , but just as with shooters, not all bikers are the same, besides, there is no boot on a bike to put things in.

 

I have been pulled a couple of times on routine stops and the police were always fine with the leatherman, I was going camping and the tool was seen as appropriate, and more importantly, I didn't give the officer 'attitude' for just doing his job. But if I was carrying the same thing around on a night out in town, I would expect the same police officer to ask some serious questions about intent, this is a no-brainer. If the tool and the circumstances are appropriate - no problem. If not - you only have yourself to blame. Anyone who starts giving a police officer serious attitude is just asking that officer to find a reason to give you grief back, you are always guilty of something, even if it is only of stupidity!

 

I mean no disrespect to anyone here, you take the decision on your own bat, I just feel that just as I keep my gun and other equipment out of sight in the boot and take them out and clean them at the end of the day, I would do the same with a knife, or keep it in the boot in a toolkit out of easy reach, even then I wouldn't keep a fancy lock knife there.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Bloke

[happypig]

This thread is going round and around.

 

Its been said before unless its a non locking sub 3in or 7.62cm folding blade, have good reason or leave it at home

 

If you are worried about coming across a burning bus full of nuns and school children then google "seatbelt cutter glass breaker" and for £3.50 you can have the right tool for the job which will not upset anyone.

[bicykillgaz]

keep it in your decoying bag in the bucket seat bit, then its not to hand if you get stopped, i can't see it been an issue. keeping it by your seat might look like your planning a bit of road rage.

[vampire]

You have COMPLETELY miss-understood my post and twisted it to suit your bitchin' & moanin'

 

The law states it is illegal to carry a knife that locks or is fixed with a blade of more than 3" in a public place. Your car, on a public highway, is deemed to be 'a public place.'

 

There is a defence available in that you are OK as long as you can show good reason for being in possession of the knife at the time. 'Just in case' is not good reason, on way to/from a stalk is good reason, or any other legitimate activity, any other time is not. Just because you indulge in activities where the legitimate use of a knife is called for, does not give you the right to be in possession of a knife all the time. If that were the case we could all use the excuse of 'possibly needing to carve a joint of beef' for having the 10" carving knife in the boot! The same sensible logic also applies to firearms...... do you leave your gun or rifle in the boot 'just in case you need it?'

 

This particular law is very very difficult for the Police to Police, we all need knives in our daily lives, at the same time we need to get them off the streets. Unfortunately, and please Plod (that IS a term of endearment BTW) members, correct me if I'm wrong, part of the training for the Police DOES NOT include developing psychic abilities so they can pre-determine the motives of everyone they come accross in the field (Minority Report was only a movie, it's not real!!!) and so, the only way they can do thier job is to view everyone with the same level of suspicion or not. Just because you have hunting gear in the boot does not automatically mean you are a very good boy and have no intention of using the knife in a manner other than that which you are claiming it is used for!

 

At the end of the day, if you are not on your way to/from the activity the knife is used for, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE CARRYING THAT KNIFE and deserve everything you get. And before anyone pipes up and says 'but I need a knife in case I break down/need to cut a seat belt/etc...etc...' buy a <3" non locking, folding knife and keep it locked away in the boot of the car. That will do any job a 5" fixed or 3" lock knife will do and it will keep you well within the law!

 

Very well put and clear in its message. :(

[Kent Militia]

The whole thing is very difficult and I sympathise with the Police as they can't be expected to be able to judge and catagorise people just on age/looks/occupation etc.... Yes it's a pain in the bum for us but, the way it's working at the moment is the only way it can work... NO GREY AREAS, YOU ARE EITHER BREAKING THE LAW OR YOU AREN'T AND THE LAW IS VERY, VERY CLEAR IN THIS INSTANCE!

 

I still think you would have a very hard time convincing plod or a judge that it was ok to have a firearm in your vehicle when you weren't actually on your way to or from a shoot / stalk / gunsmiths etc.

 

So let's criminalise everyone who has a knife on them. Unfortunately you talk about policing, however what I imagine is: Pre-crime, stopping someone or threaten to arrest somebody on something that they are carrying for something they MIGHT do is just utterly wrong. You surely understand the point I am making?

[DSPUK]

What a sad state of affairs this country has come to when law abiding can't even carry a knife for whatever reason - I have had a pocket knife of one sort or the other since I was a cub scout in 50's and we never carried it to "stick" someone - all this is due to lily livered politicians and crime gangs that have no relation to us but we suffer the catch all legislation these scheming snivilling politicians force upon us.

 

Dave

[Kent Militia]

And I'm sorry but calling Dirty Harry a tyrant is a disgrace. So, after reading a few words in his post, you've decided he's an oppressive, harsh, arbitrary person, just because he's done his job and nicked a few idiots ....which is what the public are always screaming at the police to do in the first place!!

He's given practical advice, as have many others, to be sensible and keep it in the boot.

Seems like a reasonable chap to me!

 

I didn't want to insult anyone, just the impression I got from the post in question.

[Kent Militia]

I'm sorry but this sounds like utter muppetry.

 

There is no sound or sensible excuse for this and I would expect that the police would support this opinion.

Why not lock them up, or put them away out of reach?

 

What happens for example if god forbid you were to encounter a very bad road accident where a person is trapped in their car by their seatbelt and you need to take quick action. Good luck on chewing the seatbelt off.

 

I agre better have a knife and not need it than not have one at all.

[Kent Militia]

At the end of the day, if you are not on your way to/from the activity the knife is used for, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE CARRYING THAT KNIFE and deserve everything you get. And before anyone pipes up and says 'but I need a knife in case I break down/need to cut a seat belt/etc...etc...' buy a <3" non locking, folding knife and keep it locked away in the boot of the car. That will do any job a 5" fixed or 3" lock knife will do and it will keep you well within the law!

 

"You have no right" does not mean that I would use the knife in a malefic way. Also it doesn't just apply to knives but also any other sharp object, so you'd betetr come back and think very hard what "sharp" object you might have in your boot that you could get arrested for and make sure you take it out.

[Kent Militia]

What a sad state of affairs this country has come to when law abiding can't even carry a knife for whatever reason - I have had a pocket knife of one sort or the other since I was a cub scout in 50's and we never carried it to "stick" someone - all this is due to lily livered politicians and crime gangs that have no relation to us but we suffer the catch all legislation these scheming snivilling politicians force upon us.

 

Dave

 

Yes and some people on here who act moronic and think that there is no reason to carry a knife, so maybe there isn't, doesn't mean you are going to do something bad with it. Unless you have broken the law it is not the police's job to regulate what you have on you.

[J@mes]

it is not the police's job to regulate what you have on you.

 

 

well yes, it is if you are not allowed to carry the item.

 

a 10" "I think I am crocodile dundee" bowie knife is going to cut a seatbelt the same as a 2.5" swiss army. so why the need to carry anything more?

Edited April 21, 2010 by J@mes

[Kent Militia]

well yes, it is if you are not allowed to carry the item.

 

a 10" "I think I am crocodile dundee" bowie knife is going to cut a seatbelt the same as a 2.5" swiss army. so why the need to carry anything more?

 

A good example of the whole: "you're not allowed culture". Not because it can be proven that it was used in a crime but because we Are the LAW and we say so.

[gixer1]

A good example of the whole: "you're not allowed culture". Not because it can be proven that it was used in a crime but because we Are the LAW and we say so.

 

 

Totaly agree...nanny state...

[Cranfield]

What happens for example if god forbid you were to encounter a very bad road accident where a person is trapped in their car by their seatbelt and you need to take quick action. Good luck on chewing the seatbelt off.

 

I agre better have a knife and not need it than not have one at all.

 

A good point. :blink:

 

This happens to me all the time.

[happypig]

For goodness sake get a life hamer and seatbelt cutter combo........... it will work one handed.

 

Leave your knives at home. If you do not like it or do not want to comply then fine but the Police will come looking for your shotguns and licence when you get arrested.

 

And i support that if you can not or will not comply with the rules.