Cartridges - which type??

[Enzo]

Just recently had SGC land on doormat - at bl@xdy last.

 

So now is the time to ask the collective genius that is P/Watch. These may be stupid questions to the more experienced of you out there, so please be gentle, it's my first time..

 

The gun is a berreta 686E o/u 12gauge, multi choke. (Thanks Reg, you're a star).

 

1.What cartridge would you reccomend for clay target practice. Bearing in mind that I don't want to end the sesssion feeling like I've been hit with a cricket bat in the shoulder.

 

2. Are 1/2 and 3/4 the average choke sizes for this kind of practice?

 

Where can I find info about different cartridge labelling and what they should be used for, either book or net based.

 

Any information either good bad or indifferent will be greatly recieved. :thumbs:

 

Many thanks all.

 

Enzo

[chrisv]

Enzo,

Not sure how basic you want to get with the answer, so forgive me if I tell you something you already know.

First make sure the cartridge will fit in your gun, the 67/70 (mm) number is the length of the fired cartridge. If your Beretta has 3inch (76mm?)chambers like most do then any clay cartridge will fit.

Next look at the weight of shot in the cartridge, usually 28 grams (1 oz). If you are going to shoots loads of cartridges and don't want it to hurt too much, try 24gram ones instead. Recoil also depends on velocity, but as a rule 24g ones hurt less than 28g.

Shot size, most people use 7.5 shot, but smaller 8 or 9 shot give you more pellets in the air. The downside to this is that they lose energy before they get to distant targets.

The 1/2 & 3/4 chokes are a bit tight for sporting or skeet, but would be ok for trap (DTL). Don't worry too much about choke though, it's where you shoot that matters. Try 1/4 & 1/2 if you want to open your chokes a bit.

Make sure you know if your ground allows plastic wads, most do, but some places insist on fibre.

 

Chris

[henry c]

I use gambore xlr 28 gram in number 8 shot with fiber wads, for clays they are a good smooth clean load not too bumpy.

[Cranfield]

Check the Rules at the Clay Ground you are shooting at, many have cartridge load restrictions (usually 28gm max).

[barrie0]

1. Eley firsts 28 gram 71/2 or 8's , they are a good cheap cartridge around £95 per thousand .

 

2. Chokes - on the shotgun world forum a chap has been pattern testing his 686e and reckons the chokes shoot very tight , ie 1/2 in his 686e tends to shoot more like a 3/4 etc compared to his other guns http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=60743 , I have the same gun as you and have noticed it shoots tight so as I have not had it long and need to get used to it I have dropped the chokes to cyl and a quarter . Generally quarter and half should be enough for any sporting clay course .

[Browning GTS]

When shooting clays i always go for the cheapest club cart these will most probable be a 7 or 8 shot size in 28g. When you first start out you will miss just as many as you will hit so go for the cheapist, once you know where you are going then start to experiment. The best shot will hit with a cheap cart, the worst shot will miss with an expensive one.

[Enzo]

Chrisv, Henry c, Cranfield, Barrie o and BrowningGTS, many thanks for all your advice and wise words.

 

Time to get out and practice, practice.

 

Many thanks everyone.

Enzo

[Catamong]

Enzo,

 

Join the CPSA and get yourself along to Southdown GC at Findon near Worthing, speak to anyone of the Peckham family that run the ground, they will give you all the advice you need.

 

Forget about using fibre wads if you are serious about clay shooting, all registered grounds allow plaswads, which throw a better pattern, through 1/4 & 1/2 choke, which is all you will need for general sporting clays.

 

Double H

[Enzo]

Double h, already been to Southdown Gun Club in Findon for a lesson.

As you have stated, really friendly bunch.

Will be going back soon to continue the learning curve!!

Do plastic wads make that much difference then?

 

Enzo

Edited November 20, 2005 by Enzo

[Dunkield]

They used to be a bigger difference than there is now, fibre wadded cartridges have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years. They used to be pretty terrible throwing **** out of the end of the barrel and generally not patterning too well at all.

 

Nowdays good ones are nearly as good as good plastics, I would say the difference is minimal, I stopped using plastics as I do a variaty of shoots - some allow plastic some don't and I got fed up buying both. Having been forced to shoot with Express HV Fibres at a shoot I was so impressed I haven't used anything else since.

 

The theory is that the plastic wad holds the pattern better than fibre, and in most cases you will feel less recoil as the plastic wad has some cushioning in it that a fibre doesn't.

 

Why not give both a try and see how you get on??

[Enzo]

Thanks for that stuartp, I'll give them a go.

 

Enzo

[Catamong]

Enzo,

 

StuartP has hit the proverbial nail on the head and his advice is spot on.

 

The only other bit of advice I can give you, (which comes from 30 years of Clayshooting), is that beginners invariably fail to appreciate how much lead (forward allowance) most clays need, and they therefore consistently miss behind.

 

So, if you do miss a target, give it a bit more lead, and you may get lucky.

 

Double H

[wacker]

I have a 686e & choke cyl & 1/4. Cartridge wise i find that 28gram 7.5 Gamebore Blue diamonds go well & always use fibre wads.

[Browning GTS]

They used to be a bigger difference than there is now, fibre wadded cartridges have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years.  They used to be pretty terrible throwing **** out of the end of the barrel and generally not patterning too well at all.

 

Nowdays good ones are nearly as good as good plastics, I would say the difference is minimal, I stopped using plastics as I do a variaty of shoots - some allow plastic some don't and I got fed up buying both.  Having been forced to shoot with Express HV Fibres at a shoot I was so impressed I haven't used anything else since.

 

The theory is that the plastic wad holds the pattern better than fibre, and in most cases you will feel less recoil as the plastic wad has some cushioning in it that a fibre doesn't.

 

Why not give both a try and see how you get on??

One thing to add i think with fibre, barrel cleaning is easyer than with plastic wads

[Enzo]

Thanks again everyone for all the info.

I did finally manage to get down to Southdown this Friday (25th) and shoot a few clays. 100 sporting.

Used Hull cartridge Sovereign 24gm 8's - breaking my shoulder in gently!

Plastic wads.

Got home and then spent bloody ages cleaning the barrels!! :blink:

Will try fibre next time though. When Iv'e used up the rest of the box....

 

Cheers guys

Enzo

Edited November 27, 2005 by Enzo

[chrisv]

Enzo,

If you're going to be using Hull Cartridge fibre, try my favourite, Pro Fibre. I think Sovereign fibre only come in 28g or more and I find them too punchy. Pro Fibre come in 24 or 28g, I use 24g mostly and they do the job really well.

Chris

[sussex lad]

Enzo,

I run Blue Diamond 28g 7 1/2's fibre wad through my Beretta AL 390 .

They pattern really well with the teauge ported extended 1/4 choke i use and they seem a little bit more open than the standard 1/4 choke that came with it .

Did you take the 391 to Southdown ? When i took my 390 i had to slip it between stands!! no real problem. But i used a breach flag ,but because i couldnt break the gun as such he still made me slip it .

I also shoot Greenfields in canterbury quite alot and had never had any probs there.

Just wondered if was me or a attitude they had toward semi's .The guy in the shop was very anti semi's too he said they were for old men and boys !!!!

 

Cheers,

 

Brian...

[dunganick]

use blue diamond 28g 8's

 

little bit pokey, but they have such great down range perfomance.

 

i used to use chevron 28g 8's low recoil, but having changed to blue diamonds, i can honestly say there is a big big difference (according to the site the velocities are the same in both carts), so i wasnt missing becuase of altered lead, but i would expect to drop almost all 35+ yard birds with the chevrons

 

strange, i can only assume they have their velocities slightly wrong, and i am under leading with the chevrons.

 

blue diamonds all the way for me.

 

gave some express high velocity 24g 8's fibre a go and they are very good as well, good down range performance and lower recoil than blue diamonds, but a bit like hens teeth around my area.

[Dunkield]

Enzo,

 

Cleaning should be a breeze.

 

Use some 303 cleaner or similar and give it real a good squirt down both barrels from the breach end. Twist the barrels round as it runs towards the muzzle end and leave them somewhere flat.

 

Have a cup of tea for 5 minutes and then shove a bronze brush through both, use the solid brush's don't bother with the spiral ones that come with most claening kits.

 

Follow that up with some kitchen paper or lint free cloth if can get any (use to be used for cleaning computer compononts) and shove that through the barrels. They should be as clean as a whistle.

 

If you need to clean the ejectors and oil then slightly, they push and twist out on a Beretta, but be carefull to use a cloth to catch the springs and plunger in as they fly out with some force.

 

Cleaning shouldn't be too hard or too time consuming otherwise it tends not to get done.

 

 

Good luck.

[Enzo]

Crikey, where to start??

 

Brian, I took both the 686E and the 391 to Southdown. They weren't too fussed about the gun being 'slipped' between stands, only that when carried between, it was pointed upwards!!?

I havn't shot anywhere else yet, but I would take the 686 to an 'unknown' ground first anyway. Let me know if you want to go for a shoot sometime, or anyone else for that matter. I could do with the practice. As long as the clay ground isn't too far away!

 

Chris, I will try the Hull pro fibre next time. Thanks for that.

 

Stuart, cheers for the cleaning advice. I'll give that a go, I like the idea of letting something else do the cleaning instead of me scrubbing like an old chamber maid on wash day!!

I'll have a look at the ejectors, listen out for the sound of spring against windows..

 

Do you oil the inside of the barrels after cleaning, or just the outside to prevent rusting? I normally just run a patch through with some soaked into it. Would this increase fouling?

 

I dropped the 391 S/A into Westons today for a full service(?) It was purchased s/hand so not too sure about history. It will be interesting to see what is done and the cost....

 

Thanks all (again) :thumbs:

 

Enzo

Edited November 30, 2005 by Enzo

[Dunkield]

Do you oil the inside of the barrels after cleaning, or just the outside to prevent rusting? I normally just run a patch through with some soaked into it. Would this increase fouling?

Just the outside, I don't oil the inside of the barrels, Berretta's have chrome lined bores so you don't need to, unless you you were storing it for months on end then that might be different.

[MC]

My advice to you would be don't buy too many cartridges at once. And try as many brands as you can. I use Express pro comp in 8's for everything. I have tried most brands and you do notice a big difference with some brands.

 

I had some Winchester Silvers which were very punchy and the gun tended to recoil upwards at hit you in the face.

 

Gamebore XLR's are another very good cartridge.

 

Hull sovereigns are also good but they do pattern very tight.

 

As for chokes unless you are going to specialise and shoot trap or skeet, don't worry about them. I use cylinder and improved cylinder and don't come accross birds at many clay shoots that can't be hit.

 

Just experiment, find a combinatiion that works for you and relax.

 

And most of all don't worry about your scores and enjoy it.

 

Cheers

 

MC

[MC]

Oh, on the subject of cleaning.

 

Buy yourself a Claymate full length mop and a rod with a phosphour bronze brush. Give a squirt of WD40 down each barrel, scrub with the bronze brush and then mop out with the claymate.

 

Job done

 

Cheers

 

MC

[dunganick]

do you mean the white xlr's, becuase i used the green xlr's (as do most when they start out) and they were dogs, didnt pattern, and certainly wernt 'extra low recoil'

 

the white xlrs i am told are very good, if not a little heavy recoiling.