marlin.45 Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) Gems, If you have a link........................... Putting together a letter to go to the FARM manager today. Just need a ref for the home office guidance publication to include. It will outline all arguments and we will see where we go from there. Paul Edited January 4, 2006 by marlin.45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 They keep changing the bloody site, so it took a while to find it- :< http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news-and-p...pdf?view=Binary G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin.45 Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) Cheers Gem's Letter sent today. Attached in text form if useful to others................. Attn. FARM Manager. Dear Sir/ Madam, REF. – Firearms License No. **** – Variation application Late last year I submitted an application for a variation to my existing FAC to include pest control on local farmland. This I have permission from the land lessee to shoot over and this was checked into by your FLO *****. But there are a few outstanding issues that I would be grateful if you could resolve. Now when the application was submitted it included a request for a .243 rifle for both deer and fox control over this land and for zeroing/target shooting. This I received on the updated FAC but with the restriction that both deer and fox use had to be accompanied by an experienced stalker. Now where I can see some reasoning that an accompaniment is useful for deer recognition I cannot see where the same can be said of fox. Deer is also shot in daylight hours whereas fox is normally shot in suitable locations at dusk/night. Therefore if the provision requires that fox can only be shot while accompanied and in the process of stalking deer then if a fox is taken at night then that would be an illegal act in light of my FAC restriction. So my question is as the caliber of rifle chosen meets with section 13.23 of the Home Office Guidance 2002 for both fox and deer what is the aim of the restricted use? If the limitation is placed due to ‘experience’ then target shooting for 10 years on an FAC and an additional 10 years of both target and pest control both here and in the USA obviously has no influence? The current DSC1 contains no training that will improve firearm safety beyond that already followed and deals mainly with deer recognition, health and deer law. I believe this is used as relevant experience but I fail to see how this is relevant. If the deer provision has to be escorted by an experienced stalker can you please let me know where this exists within Home Office guidance. Also would this restriction be lifted when a DSC1 course has been passed? I would be grateful if you could clear up these points for me so I know how to proceed with this issue. Yours faithfully, Paul ********* Ref. Firearms Law – Guidance to the Police. Stationary office ref. No. 011 341 273 8 Though let's see what the result from it is? Edited January 4, 2006 by marlin.45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Thanks Stuart for that. If i say, decided to do a bit of roe stalking in scotland, would i have to go threw the same procedure and apply for a UK firearms licence, or, would my irish licence do? Is their a visitors permit or something in them lines? Sorry Frank I only saw this, I am not getting notifications of post as I am off sick at the mo and they pop up on my work PC I don't know how that would work to be honest I would have thought getting the gun into Scotland would be a hurdle but after you shouldn't have any bother if you were shooting on an estate. This is grey area as they have 'estate rifle' licences that mean anyone can shoot one of their (normally very ropey) guns without an FAC, but I really don't know the full answer regarding an Irish certificate. If you are thinking of going, call up one of the estates in the back of the shooting mags and ask them, they must have been asked this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Thanks again Stuart. Ill check it out. I have been thinking about it on and off the last year or so, but since i have aquired this new land with fallow on it, it wont be for a good while. Prehaps when things go slack over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 You have to absolutely promise on your mothers honour that you will post the reply with big asterisks next to it! Lets see how they like their own medicine!Go on my son! Hi Fister, sorry but i dont understand what you mean mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 on my ticket it says my guns shall be used for shooting vermin and ground game with the management of any estate,other wildlife, deos this cover deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin.45 Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Frank, FARM is the acronym used by UK Police for Firerams licensing dept.s Fister, We'll see what comes back and I will post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) You have to absolutely promise on your mothers honour that you will post the reply with big asterisks next to it! Lets see how they like their own medicine!Go on my son! Hi Fister, sorry but i dont understand what you mean mate. Hopefully I can clear up the confusion Frank... Fister's comments related to the the post from Marlin no to to the post from you, there was a time delay I think. Fister, If the post you want to reply to a post that is up the page a bit use the 'quote' button to show you are responding to that post and not the one directly above, if that makes sense Edited January 5, 2006 by stuartp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargeant Bang Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Marlin My FAC is approaching a year old now. I live in N.E. Hampshire. I have restrictions on the use of my .25-06. I didn't have to do a DSC1 but I had to do a similar but less stringent course with a local well known stalker who runs a training centre and is a big land agent in these parts... only £520 for the residential weekends training! ***!! Even after that I can only stalk with him until he writes them (FARM) a letter to say I'm safe on my own. Once the "supervisory clause" is lifted I can stalk anywhere with land owners permission and on land deemed suitable etc etc. I can also use the .25-06 for Deer or Fox, and it's a pretty pokey calibre for Foxing, far more so than a .243 and arguably a 6.5x55 as well. On the plus side, the guy is on the verge of doing the letter for me, which is just as well as he could in theory bleed me dry for years! Also, I've since been able to have another experienced stalker added to my ticket as a second qualified mentor. Luckily he's a buddy with his own permissions, so that is always there to help "accelerate" the process if needs be. Funnily enough my pal who went on the same course with me but lives in the Thames Valley area was refused a full bore slot on his FAC until he did a DSC1. Our system is B*ll*x. Yet again, it all depends where you live it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Granted sarg, the 25-06 is probably a pokier round than the .243. Unfortunately it’s also more of a barrel-burner. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 You have to absolutely promise on your mothers honour that you will post the reply with big asterisks next to it! Lets see how they like their own medicine!Go on my son! Hi Fister, sorry but i dont understand what you mean mate. Hopefully I can clear up the confusion Frank... Fister's comments related to the the post from Marlin no to to the post from you, there was a time delay I think. Fister, If the post you want to reply to a post that is up the page a bit use the 'quote' button to show you are responding to that post and not the one directly above, if that makes sense Stuart, thanks very much for clearing this up for me mate. I now know what was going on. :( Cheers. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin.45 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 (edited) Well, reply came back from Wilts today Now the aim for this was:- a) get everything in writing now for getting restrictions lifted later get the fox restictions lifted c) attempt to get the deer DSC requirements lifted Now c) was a long shot and I doubted that would happen and that is just Wilts. Every county to their own there then. To summarise what came back basically the DSC1 requirement to lift my escorted by an experienced stalker stands. Could be worse as Mr Bang has found some counties want practical escorted shoots until they feel that you have enough experince. Wilts just want DSC1 plus no specifically named stalkers either. The .243 is to have the restrictions removed for fox so now the .243 will have a primary use for fox and a secondary use for deer where I will require an 'escort' until DSC1 is passed. So a result on a) & c) at least which is more than the BASC thought I would get Sir Bang, Your local'ish to me. Head down the A303 to the first roundabout and that's not too far from me. A Hants based colleague also had to run the letter from a listed stalker route. My £250 for DSC1 seems cheap in comparison But this is where the country is going ***! I can see where their comment that I had insufficient experience comes from though as the application for pest control was only made last October prior to that it was target shooting for 10 years and 5 years shooting all and sundry in the USA. But the latter can't be documented. But if the FAC goes open in 6 months then something is being taken in consideration ? Edited January 16, 2006 by marlin.45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin.45 Posted January 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 FAC back today and the requirement to be accompanied for fox has been lifted !! :( Still require it at the mo for deer but that shouldn't take long as I have found a friendly (FREE) stalker I hope :thumbs: Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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