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It's called diversionary feeding, putting a few split rabbits and other tasty morsels around the release pens to try to stop them eating my pheasants. Anythings worth a try and some people have some success with this method.

 

Believe me they can and do tackle much larger prey than a partridge so I don't see why they can't tackle a dead paunched rabbit when they can take a live adult pheasant.

 

Had you bothered to read my post you will have read that I see that particular buzzard perched on that post every day and it would be apparent to anyone that I enjoy seeing it.

 

I am always amazed that some will never acknowledge that buzzards do cause economic loss to shoots, particularly when they abound in very large numbers. Personally I love to see them about and I am prepared so subsidise their existence with money from my own pocket and together with a little habitat management the damage they do can be mitigated by the pleasure they give me. However, I am not so blinkered to believe that all they eat is carrion and slugs.

 

Do you really think that if I was of a mind to shoot one I would advertise the fact on here.

 

I am astonished that you think game keeping has a bad name, I was of the opinion that game keeping, particularly to those in the know like yourself, achieved an awful lot for conservation and habitat. Our keepers put out dozens of owl, bird and mammal boxes, many in their own time, which together with the conservation seed mixes on headlands and in odd corners round the farm together with vigerous vermin control helps a vast amount of wildlife.

 

Surely you don't believe all the rubbish the RSPB spouts.

 

Apologies first and fore most! I do not think for one second that you would shoot one, but there are people out there that would.

I do know what diversionary feeding is but I think it has been shown to have limited success rates, That said it does work.

I aggree that in some instances that raptors can cause a financial loss to a shoot but foxes etc.. cause far more damage.

Gamekeeping has had in the past and still gets some very bad publicity. Yes! there are pleanty of achievements with regard to habitat management and conservation efforts by estates. Indeed the etsate where I live has one of the highest densities of upland birds I have seen in a long time. I am sure that this is down to the efforts of the keepering team. Well done boys! :blush:

I am well aware of the c**p that the RSPB spout and to be honest I haven't got the time for them. If anything is ever found dead or goes missing then it is usually the Keepering,Shooting or Falconry fraternity that gets the blame. For instance : Hen harriers in the Trough of Bowland went missing a few years back and the RSPB immediatley blamed the keepers, only to find all the cacasses in the nest of an Eagle Owl. This year an Eagle Owl was actually filmed be the RSPB's own CCTV system taking a Hen Harrier. Peregrine Falcons go missing from a nest in anywhere in the country, Falconers get blamed. Enough said! BUT it is the poisoning issue which is the greatest cause of ill feeling towards Shooting and Gamekeeping. SOMEONE is responsable and this needs to be addressed. We all need to stick together.

I would like to congratulate you on your conservation efforts. :lol:

Edited by Eskdale hawks
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anyone had any problems with buzzards killing polts?

We have more problems with buzzards than the fox. Then again we can control the fox. I tend to drop pigeons and bunnies for them on stubble away from the pens. Anything trapped in fenns is left for them as well. It tends to be the young ones you have the trouble with and once they taste pheasant meat you havea problem. Thousands of easy dinners in and around pens is too much temptation for them. Edited to say that I have seen buzzards leaving the pen with poults and feeding inside release pens. I've also seen them with newly released partridge (on one occasion a live but injured one was dropped yards from me) so this isn't theory.

Edited by rowey
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We have more problems with buzzards than the fox. Then again we can control the fox. I tend to drop pigeons and bunnies for them on stubble away from the pens. Anything trapped in fenns is left for them as well. It tends to be the young ones you have the trouble with and once they taste pheasant meat you havea problem. Thousands of easy dinners in and around pens is too much temptation for them. Edited to say that I have seen buzzards leaving the pen with poults and feeding inside release pens. I've also seen them with newly released partridge (on one occasion a live but injured one was dropped yards from me) so this isn't theory.

 

Thankyou! You observations have just backed up what I have been saying all along. Buzzards can and will take poults up a certain size. They are not really equipped to deal with anything much bigger than a partridge. You are correct in that it tends to be the young birds that hang around the pens. I to have witnessed thismyself. My old house was in the middle of a wood less than 50yrd from the main release pen, so I used to see this on a daily basis for 16yrs.

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I often wonder how many of the people who claim buzzards take game see the bird kill it or is it more likely they come across a dead individual and feed on it. I have spent the past 15 years studying buzzards for maybe 400 hours a year. Its part of my job. In Norfolk we now have a lot of common buzzards and on my shoot I have 13 pairs nesting yet I have yet to see one take a game bird of any sort.

 

I have seen them feeding on dead pheasants after a shoot and on road kills , but never seen one kill a pheasant. Apart from watching the birds hunt I also sort through their pellets and half eaten kills at the nest. I find about 50% of their diet are voles , 10% frogs and about 30% rabbits including fully grown individuals. The bulk of the remainder of the diet is made up on beetles and other large insects. Once I saw a buzzard with a half grown coot . However there is one exception. One pair seen to specialise on catching crows and jays. By the time the young fledged In mid June , I found the remains of 24 crows and 2 jays under the nest. I am not saying they might take the odd gamebird chick\poult , but its not a common occurrence in my experience. As they can fly well with full grown rabbits how is it we do not see them flying about with pheasants in their talons.

 

For any keeper who loses a few pouts its easy to blame the buzzard. Correct sighting of a release pen and having the correct habitat \ cover for the young gamebirds once they are released should stop any problems that might occur. One of the estates I survey have 3 pairs of marsh harriers , 8 pairs of common buzzards .plus a number of kestrels , hobby and sparrowhawks on their wild bird shoot. Yet they still manage 10 days shooting a year with most days having 100 + bags and a couple of big 400 bird days. Get your habitat and management right and birds of prey are not usually a problem to lowland game. The one exception to this is the goshawk. They cant tackle a cock pheasant , but are well able to take hen birds, indeed will target them as I found out this summer when a pair moved onto my shoot. But the sight of such a great bird hunting the woodland rides more than makes up for the loss of a few dozen pheasants. The answer to the problem is simple - rear a few more pheasants.

I'm afraid you are talking **** friend. I have seen buzzards taking poults out of a release pen as well as feeding in them and roosting on the pen posts. JUST LAST NIGHT 4 were at one of my pens with newly released poults. There were 15 kills on the perimeters. 2 were eaten and the rest killed. Rear a few more ? Site the pens better ? You obviously know little of the work or costs involved in rearing. To see weeks and months of hard work ended in seconds is heartbreaking and maddening.I can stand the odd loss and don't begrudge them the odd poult but make no mistake they are efficient and ruthless killers of LIVE prey. Just because you've not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen it with my own eyes over several years. 20 years ago we never saw them. Now they are everywhere and it's not a good thing. That said its the situation we are now in and theres nothing we can do about it. Go and study some more. Nature hasn't given them talons and hook beaks to feed on wheat and barley! Pigeons, grown partridge and pheasant poults. They can and will take them all.

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I'm afraid you are talking **** friend. I have seen buzzards taking poults out of a release pen as well as feeding in them and roosting on the pen posts. JUST LAST NIGHT 4 were at one of my pens with newly released poults. There were 15 kills on the perimeters. 2 were eaten and the rest killed. Rear a few more ? Site the pens better ? You obviously know little of the work or costs involved in rearing. To see weeks and months of hard work ended in seconds is heartbreaking and maddening.I can stand the odd loss and don't begrudge them the odd poult but make no mistake they are efficient and ruthless killers of LIVE prey. Just because you've not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen it with my own eyes over several years. 20 years ago we never saw them. Now they are everywhere and it's not a good thing. That said its the situation we are now in and theres nothing we can do about it. Go and study some more. Nature hasn't given them talons and hook beaks to feed on wheat and barley! Pigeons, grown partridge and pheasant poults. They can and will take them all.

 

But it is their right to be there and not their fault that we provide them with a fast food outlet. I do know the cost and work involved involved in rearing, and I'm afraid my friend that it is you that talks ****. It is just this sort of attitude that gives the bunny cudddlers the ammunition that they need to put pressure on our sport to be banned. Where would you be then? Pushing trolleys in a tesco car park.

We must remember that what we do IS a sport, it's got **** all to do with conservation, we just use that mask to make ourselves look better. The only thing that I see being conserved is the bird that is worth £29 or whatever you charge.

Let's for arguements sake remove it from the buzzard issue, as in my area we dont have to much of an issue with those. Lets look at the Marsh Harrier. Many millions of pounds have been spent fortifying the population of these birds in the east. With much success. But now the locals are going against this bird, why, because they claim the snipe shooting has been affected. And yes these are being shot. What for? a bird that barely covers a round of toast, and that actually deserves protecting as well.

Well we could all sit there and say that they will never ban shooting, it's a multi million pound business. But what with the recent goings on with guns, licensed and not, plus the negative public attitude, our sport is facing an uphill struggle to prove it's worth. Look what happened to the hunt, I was in London on those marches, I saw the bigger picture, where were you. Worrying about bloody buzzards.

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But it is their right to be there and not their fault that we provide them with a fast food outlet. I do know the cost and work involved involved in rearing, and I'm afraid my friend that it is you that talks ****. It is just this sort of attitude that gives the bunny cudddlers the ammunition that they need to put pressure on our sport to be banned. Where would you be then? Pushing trolleys in a tesco car park.

We must remember that what we do IS a sport, it's got **** all to do with conservation, we just use that mask to make ourselves look better. The only thing that I see being conserved is the bird that is worth £29 or whatever you charge.

Let's for arguements sake remove it from the buzzard issue, as in my area we dont have to much of an issue with those. Lets look at the Marsh Harrier. Many millions of pounds have been spent fortifying the population of these birds in the east. With much success. But now the locals are going against this bird, why, because they claim the snipe shooting has been affected. And yes these are being shot. What for? a bird that barely covers a round of toast, and that actually deserves protecting as well.

Well we could all sit there and say that they will never ban shooting, it's a multi million pound business. But what with the recent goings on with guns, licensed and not, plus the negative public attitude, our sport is facing an uphill struggle to prove it's worth. Look what happened to the hunt, I was in London on those marches, I saw the bigger picture, where were you. Worrying about bloody buzzards.

No arguments with most of what you say however;

 

1.) It is more than a sport. It is a legitimate business with people and families dependant on the income.

2.) The previous post stated that buzzard predation doesn't happen. That is simply untrue.

3.) It is my right to earn a living.

4.) Read the post. I know theres nothing can be done but don't sit there on your high horse expecting me to smile and be happy about it. Get a life.

5.) I wasn't worrying about buzzards at the march as there weren't any.

 

HAVE A NICE DAY!

Edited by rowey
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Reading one of the above posts the writer mentioned our sport has **** all to do with conservation, that is not the case, it is a well known fact that managed shoots have a more varied and abundant wild bird population.

But the so called tree huggers don't want to admit that for obvious reasons.

It is all about predator control, just leave the true country people manage the countryside, there are far too many protectionist groups poking their beaks into something they know sod all about, but still claim to be experts in every field.

True country people that make a living from the countryside will quietly go about predator control, and yes, they do contribute to the conservation of wild birds, contrary what some may wrongly think.

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No arguments with most of what you say however;

 

1.) It is more than a sport. It is a legitimate business with people and families dependant on the income.

2.) The previous post stated that buzzard predation just happen. That is simply untrue.

3.) It is my right to earn a living.

4.) Read the post. I know theres nothing can be done but don't sit there on your high horse expecting me to smile and be happy about it. Get a life.

5.) I wasn't worrying about buzzards at the march as there weren't any.

 

HAVE A NICE DAY!

 

1. Yes to us I agree that it is more than a sport, with many people dependant on the revenue created, but to joe public it is just a sport, and one which the majority are not in favour of. The hunt was just a sport.

2. My standpoint is regardless of whether predation occurs or not, it's that we need to look at how we are viewed by the outside world. Any lobbying for BOP control is just going to create dissent with the great unwashed.

3. Earning a living is not a right it is a privelege, and can be lost in the blink of an eye.

4. I do not expect anyone to be happy with it, but think of the public perception. With the ever increasing flood of townies into our villages and things like the CROW act we are more open than ever to public scrutiny. Present company accepted we all know what goes on behind closed doors so to speak, and it is this that infuriates me. I am far to busy to get a life, and although owning horses would never consider getting on one, bloody things terrify me.

5. :hmm:

 

Good morning to you, sir.

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Reading one of the above posts the writer mentioned our sport has **** all to do with conservation, that is not the case, it is a well known fact that managed shoots have a more varied and abundant wild bird population.

But the so called tree huggers don't want to admit that for obvious reasons.

It is all about predator control, just leave the true country people manage the countryside, there are far too many protectionist groups poking their beaks into something they know sod all about, but still claim to be experts in every field.

True country people that make a living from the countryside will quietly go about predator control, and yes, they do contribute to the conservation of wild birds, contrary what some may wrongly think.

 

Yes I agree, but this is a by product of what we do rather than the intention. The aim is to provide birds for guns, the knock on benefits are increased wild bird populations. Certainly in my area the days of country people getting on with it are over, ramblers, dog walkers, picnicers etc etc. People seem to pop up all over the place, in areas where you'd least expect it.

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1. Yes to us I agree that it is more than a sport, with many people dependant on the revenue created, but to joe public it is just a sport, and one which the majority are not in favour of. The hunt was just a sport.

2. My standpoint is regardless of whether predation occurs or not, it's that we need to look at how we are viewed by the outside world. Any lobbying for BOP control is just going to create dissent with the great unwashed.

3. Earning a living is not a right it is a privelege, and can be lost in the blink of an eye.

4. I do not expect anyone to be happy with it, but think of the public perception. With the ever increasing flood of townies into our villages and things like the CROW act we are more open than ever to public scrutiny. Present company accepted we all know what goes on behind closed doors so to speak, and it is this that infuriates me. I am far to busy to get a life, and although owning horses would never consider getting on one, bloody things terrify me.

5. :hmm:

 

Good morning to you, sir.

 

Think a truce is called for as I think we're on the same side or we should be at least. Buzzards are, and always will be an emotive issue. No man has all the truth, but between us we have to find a way forward. I have no desire to see them destroyed or eradicated but I am in favour of a licensed cull for rogue birds. The Royal Society for the Protection of Buzzards (sorry birds) watch us like hawks if you'll pardon the pun and I know the bad press we get better than you know but joe public wouldn't be happy if keepers **** gold nuggets so lets agree to disagree. This morning again there were five around my pen. 6 more fresh kills and poults scattered all over the place. Understand friend this is frustrating as they are targeting a main pen. You would feel the same frustration trust me.

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Think a truce is called for as I think we're on the same side or we should be at least. Buzzards are, and always will be an emotive issue. No man has all the truth, but between us we have to find a way forward. I have no desire to see them destroyed or eradicated but I am in favour of a licensed cull for rogue birds. The Royal Society for the Protection of Buzzards (sorry birds) watch us like hawks if you'll pardon the pun and I know the bad press we get better than you know but joe public wouldn't be happy if keepers **** gold nuggets so lets agree to disagree. This morning again there were five around my pen. 6 more fresh kills and poults scattered all over the place. Understand friend this is frustrating as they are targeting a main pen. You would feel the same frustration trust me.

 

There never was any animosity, just good healthy debate. Thats all, and yes, I too would like to consider us to be on the same side. I do not pretend to have the answers, for instance, it's not like the cormorant issue, whereby the birds have changed their habitat and methods to create the problem for inland fisheries. Licences are issued for these birds on a limited number per year, but with no policing in place due to lack of resources, these licences are so open to abuse, and they do get abused.

I do feel for you and the loss of your birds, and do understand how frustrating it can be. Last year we lost a whole pen of partridges to a fox that had slipped through the net. He didn't do it a second time :hmm: So believe me when I say that I understand, but what the answers are, I don't know.

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Hi, I have just joined this forum and have been interested to read some of the posts concerning Buzzards.

I have been involved in country sports for around 30 years. Never in that 30 years have I found predation of Game Birds to be as bad as it is now.

I have tried numerous methods to dissuade Buzzards and other raptors from taking my young polts. Even at 12 weeks old Buzzards are still killing them on a daily basis. They are sitting in the trees at the edge of the fields or clearings, stalking unsuspecting polts to leave the safety of cover in to the fields of now cut crops and killing them in large numbers.

I have found that during this rearing season there appear to be more Buzzards than I have ever seen before. Young Buzzards have been using my polts as training aids to hone their killing skills, regularly finding several carcases that have barely been touched albeit this in the first couple of weeks after releasing at 6 weeks old. By this time, the damage has been done and polts are sufficiently spooked and many have left the area to hopefully find safer habitat.

 

In an area of about 1km square, I have counted in the region of 13 Buzzards. I have tried shooting rabbits and leaving them for the pests to eat. I found that this only encouraged more to come in to the area. One evening I counted 7 Buzzards sitting in trees round a field that I had shot rabbits the following day.

 

Last week, I watched a Buzzard jumping about through the branches of a tree. I was not aware of what it was doing at the time but found it to be stalking a Red Squirrel. In the end, the Squirrel met its demise.

 

Should this particular bird be reported to the local constabulary wildlife officer for the needless killing of a protected animal??? After all there was no need for this as there were about 100 polts returning to the release pen a short distance away to roost for the night, easy pray for it.

 

However, all this said. I would not consider using illegal means to get rid of these problem pests. If I were to use unscrupulous methods, It would cost me dear in losing my job, also the land owner losing subsidies for set aside etc.... It is not worth the financial loss, never mind the possible prison sentence if caught! However. I still view Buzzards in the same category as Fox, Stoats, Weasels, Hooded Crow etc. All of which are quite legal to control by approved means.

 

I hope in the near future estates are not going to be afraid to apply for a licence to control Buzzards due to the fear of being targeted by organisations opposed to our way of life.

 

Regards, Gunner7

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Hi, I have just joined this forum and have been interested to read some of the posts concerning Buzzards.

I have been involved in country sports for around 30 years. Never in that 30 years have I found predation of Game Birds to be as bad as it is now.

I have tried numerous methods to dissuade Buzzards and other raptors from taking my young polts. Even at 12 weeks old Buzzards are still killing them on a daily basis. They are sitting in the trees at the edge of the fields or clearings, stalking unsuspecting polts to leave the safety of cover in to the fields of now cut crops and killing them in large numbers.

I have found that during this rearing season there appear to be more Buzzards than I have ever seen before. Young Buzzards have been using my polts as training aids to hone their killing skills, regularly finding several carcases that have barely been touched albeit this in the first couple of weeks after releasing at 6 weeks old. By this time, the damage has been done and polts are sufficiently spooked and many have left the area to hopefully find safer habitat.

 

In an area of about 1km square, I have counted in the region of 13 Buzzards. I have tried shooting rabbits and leaving them for the pests to eat. I found that this only encouraged more to come in to the area. One evening I counted 7 Buzzards sitting in trees round a field that I had shot rabbits the following day.

 

Last week, I watched a Buzzard jumping about through the branches of a tree. I was not aware of what it was doing at the time but found it to be stalking a Red Squirrel. In the end, the Squirrel met its demise.

 

Should this particular bird be reported to the local constabulary wildlife officer for the needless killing of a protected animal??? After all there was no need for this as there were about 100 polts returning to the release pen a short distance away to roost for the night, easy pray for it.

 

However, all this said. I would not consider using illegal means to get rid of these problem pests. If I were to use unscrupulous methods, It would cost me dear in losing my job, also the land owner losing subsidies for set aside etc.... It is not worth the financial loss, never mind the possible prison sentence if caught! However. I still view Buzzards in the same category as Fox, Stoats, Weasels, Hooded Crow etc. All of which are quite legal to control by approved means.

 

I hope in the near future estates are not going to be afraid to apply for a licence to control Buzzards due to the fear of being targeted by organisations opposed to our way of life.

 

Regards, Gunner7

[/quote

 

Some how I don't think that the Buzzard understands human law, but I may be wrong?? I think you will find that the Red Squirrel is a natural prey item for both Buzzard & Goshawk. Having evolved with them over the millenia. Much as the North American Grey Squirrel is a natural prey item for the Red tailed Hawk & North American Goshawk. You will also find that the Pheasant & Red legged Partridge are not native to this country having been imported from Asia & Europe especially for the purpose of shooting, therefore " Your way of life" was artificially created by these introductions! I don't think anyone is opposed to "your way of life", but there are certain individuals that bring " your way of life" into disrepute by their illegal acts? This has to be addressed by the shooting and Gamekeeping fraternity. I too have been involved with country sports for over 30yrs and I have to agree that there are more buzzards now than there were 20yrs ago. Sorry! I don't have the answer but being a Falconer/Shooter it sickens me every time there is a report of yet another Raptor that has been shot or poisoned. Yet another nail in the coffin for country sports........... Somthing we can ALL do without.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've been reading the posts with interest as this has developed.

 

Our shoot has its more than its fair share of buzzards which we put up with. It has its fair share of sparrow hawks - ditto. We have tawny owls and barn owls - these especially are welcome.

We have very few foxes, as was said - these we can control.

I fully agree that we need bio-diversity to thrive everywhere, raptors are part of that and very impressive birds.

I occassionally see peregrines, usually youngsters, trying their wings in awesome displays of flying, both speed and manoeverability.

 

Equally, when you work v hard to present good days shooting, every poult counts.

The numbers we have lost this year to all raptors must be an all-time high. I've watched buzzards (youngsters) fly down clear rides in the pens, laden with CD's and take poult after poult. At £3.50 a time it can be soul-destroying.

It has to be a question of balance and maybe we need a locally agreed population maxima to allow us all to co-exist, raptors, conservationists and shoot managers.

Raptor numbers must also relate to the available amount of food in an area, buzzards and sparrow hawks particularly.

Perhaps therefore shooting and shoots artificially increase the level of raptors a given area could normally support. This could be tested. If its true, then maybe, just maybe ,numbers could be regulated down to a 'normal' level (without such hightened food levels) - when and if that proves to be necessary.

An annual license to cull which relates to area population totals, the proposition works for badgers when they cause excessive damage?

 

I sat and watched a column of buzzards this spring - mating I think. I counted 14 before I lost them to sight, high in a thermal over my garden.

The numbers are more than I have ever seen.

 

We nevertheless have a regular buzzard visitor - BUZZ to the children, who hunts daily in our field, because we like him and he controls the rabbits.

 

We had a sighting of a red kite this way recently - I'd be happy to swap some buzzards for Kites.

 

Last wednesday, whilst foxing with a chum, a barn owl hovered withing 3 feet of me in a high seat in an old oak, I squeaked it and it came back and perched for a moment on the end of the moderator of my .223. No foxes seen but a very special night.

Regards all.

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Just as an aside to the debate.

 

Yesterday morning on my way home to breakfast after feeding and dogging in I stopped at the end of my drive to watch a huge rat making its way slowly across a field full of cows and calves about 30 yards away. Thinking I just might stand a chance of a shot with the rifle I poked it out of the window got it in the scope and was just waiting for it to stop so I could take the shot when a ruddy buzzard dropped on it and took it.

 

Never before have I seen a buzzard take a rat, fantastic sight, so perhaps buzzards have their uses after all.

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