Dempy Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Listen to all of the psuedo slaughtermen on here! Call the knackerman or your vet, asking for advise on euthanasia for a large injured, dangerous animal on the internet is mental. Apache, no insult intended but you should know better as a vet. For the record, I've been a licensed slaughterman for years, and I still miss sometimes with a captive and have 500kg of cattle going bat**** after shooting, what will he do then with the 12b at close range? You should of gone to specsavers! :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 with luck its done and dusted by now, but I'm with dempy if you can miss at a foot with a 12b possibly best to give up shooting :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) with luck its done and dusted by now, but I'm with dempy if you can miss at a foot with a 12b possibly best to give up shooting :blink: Give up, it takes a slight movement and you blow the poor beasts muzzle off, then what? Its bloody outragous anyone is giving advise on how too kill a massive animal online, when I doubt a handfull of people have actually done it. And missing with a captive bolt? More common than you think, wrong spot equals a very big animal thrashing, bleeding and you unable to get close to it for a second shot. Not a good topic this, bravado soon diminishes when you get it wrong...... Edited September 8, 2010 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dempy Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Give up, it takes a slight movement and you blow the poor beasts muzzle off, then what? Its bloody outragous anyone is giving advise on how too kill a massive animal online, when I doubt a handfull of people have actually done it. And missing with a captive bolt? More common than you think, wrong spot equals a very big animal thrashing, bleeding and you unable to get close to it for a second shot. Not a good topic this, bravado is soon diminished when you get it wrong...... http://www.bcva.eu/bcva/sites/default/file...2010%282%29.pdf You better tell these people and all the others who use this method on a regular basis that they are wron then, because you say so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) Clever aren't you? Read all you like on the internet warrior websites you frequent, I'm a licensed slaughterman which allows me my experienced opinion, you only have some furious keyboard activity to try, for some reason, to ridicule my posts...cool your beans mate, think about it.....then post. Look below.. Someone asking online how to shoot a huge animal with no experience is outragous. I'm not saying its not humane, but to ask online which would have been slower than ringing a vet/knacker man is silly. If it goes wrong it really goes tits up. http://www.bcva.eu/bcva/sites/default/file...2010%282%29.pdf You better tell these people and all the others who use this method on a regular basis that they are wron then, because you say so! Edited September 8, 2010 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 its no different to captive bolt handgun etc I have to say my old man used to use a humane killer that sat on the head and you struck with a wooden mallet and it never went wrong for him but I do know other vets it did go wrong for particularly with horses and with handguns. Personally if you cocked it up a shotgun with heavy lead would be one of the better tools for ending things we're talking a one off for an animal in serious pain there are other ways I know a herdsman used to use a club hammer on cattle, not sure i approve but it worked. One thing I wouldn't suggest is a big rifle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Dont want to get into an argument about it,all i am saying is i have shot about 100 cattle and on a bull i wouldnt use a shotgun. agreed! the skull on a bull is darn thick, for me 32 grams of sg DID NOT do the job much to my amazement, shock and horror. Any cf rifle with a soft point bullet will do the job, draw an imaginary cross between eyes and opposite horn, x marks the spot in the direction to travel down the neck, or if hes moving around and or facing the wrong way behind the ears to come out opposite eye, and then another from the front Yeh right oh, thats till your stood up close an personal with 1 ton of muscle and you realise you dont have a spare pair of underpants and it's just found it legs again :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dempy Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Clever aren't you? Read all you like on the internet warrior websites you frequent, I'm a licensed slaughterman which allows me my experienced opinion, you only have some furious keyboard activity to try, for some reason, to ridicule my posts...cool your beans mate, think about it. Someone asking online how to shoot a huge animal with no experience is outragous. I'm not saying its not humane, but to ask online which would have been slower than ringing a vet/knacker man is silly. If it goes wrong it really goes tits up. I agree, a phone call to the vet would of been the obvious choice and it what should of been done, but all I am saying is if you are competent and know what you are doing the shotgun is a good tool for humane dispatch. I am certainly not an "internet warrior" I read the page for the first time in the link taht was posted, I was talking from personal experiance having kept and worked with livestock my entire life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 ^^ someone's worried about losing business :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Call the knackerman or your vet, asking for advise on euthanasia for a large injured, dangerous animal on the internet is mental. Actually I disagree. Calling a Vet or a Slaughterman is the best option BUT what if the vet is just starting a caesarian and will be two hours? What about the slaughtermen who only work weekdays - your bull breaks its leg Friday afternoon - shot Monday lunchtime? It's ok if it's just a downer cow that can wait but personally I believe all keepers of large animals should have the means and the knowledge to perform emergency euthanasia in situations where further help will be delayed. As time goes on there will be fewer vets and fewer slaughtermen so animals should suffer longer? Apache, no insult intended but you should know better as a vet. I have taken an oath to uphold animal welfare. By giving someone some explanation as to how to do this, linking to the BCVA booklet and the HSA diagram would give people more idea than going out and making it up on the spot. I don't think it is ideal, but it might be the best they ever get! For the record, I've been a licensed slaughterman for years, and I still miss sometimes with a captive and have 500kg of cattle going bat**** after shooting, what will he do then with the 12b at 'close range'? Fire the 2nd barrel? There is much less chance of error with a shotgun as it spreads out and effectively destroys the brain. I have found cattle react much less when shot from a short distance than when trying to use a captive bolt against the head. I also am no longer happy using a .22 captive bolt as I had a few cows inadequately stunned - since swapping to a 9mm version I have never failed. For a lay person my suggestion in order of preference would be: ] 12G shotgun .410 shotgun captive bolt pistol .22 rifle A shotgun does a nice job and no need to bleed or pith the animal as there is with the captive bolt. I think the pithing is as dangerous to those around as the shooting - the captive bolt is my last resort emergency slaughter method - under the seat of the car! I use lethal injection > .32 free bullet > shotgun > captive bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster123 Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 dont you have to get a vet anyway after you have killed it for the paperwork etc?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphant59 Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 12g between his eyes will do the job, our vet uses a 410 and it does the trick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 dont you have to get a vet anyway after you have killed it for the paperwork etc?? If the animal has an accident then it needs to be examined by a vet before death to ascertain it is fit for human consumption. I can then be destroyed by the vet, farmer or a slaughterman. If the animal is already dead or has been destroyed then it can't enter the food chain. The only reason for a vet to examine it would be if a certificate was required for insurance. The farmer can call the local service for the collection of fallen stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster123 Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 so its a total loss so to speak unless its insured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster123 Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 so unless its insured and you kill it yourself it a total loss .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsm1968 Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 For the record, I've been a licensed slaughterman for years, and I still miss sometimes with a captive and have 500kg of cattle going bat**** after shooting, what will he do then with the 12b at 'close range'? My mate's a licenced HGV driver. He transported lorry loads of slaughtered stock during the foot and mouth. After a while he got bored waiting for a load at some of the farms so he just got out and helped. Shot himself a few loads with no bother. As for useing a 12ga..............30 grams at 1300fps is enough energy to knock any bovine over at close range, if in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 so unless its insured and you kill it yourself it a total loss .. Yes. If someone hit's it with a car then you could claim off their insurance. Some bulls are insured for injury (eg broken leg) but if it can't get to a slaughterhouse quickly or is too old or has a long standing problem making it unfit to travel (lame foot, meat would be ok) then is is a dead loss that the farmer has to pay to have the body taken away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I agree, a phone call to the vet would of been the obvious choice and it what should of been done, but all I am saying is if you are competent and know what you are doing the shotgun is a good tool for humane dispatch. I am certainly not an "internet warrior" I read the page for the first time in the link taht was posted, I was talking from personal experiance having kept and worked with livestock my entire life. You contradict yourself, the user isn't competent othersie he wouldn't have asked on the internet would he? Apache, its still wrong in my opinion, a person of you profession to be giving advise over the internet on how to shoot a large animal, you know aswell as me that if it goes wrong it really goes wrong...if you had a client ring you, and if you were in middle of a emergency procedure would you tell them to 'try' and shoot the animal? I doubt it. Maybe this a lesson that livestock owners, like me and others, should get some training from the hsa or some other body (IE your local slaughterhouse on how to humanely dispatch animals with the minimal risk to human safety and ethical consideration). It looks dreadful that on a shooting forum that, as it appears, only 3 people have any real experience of killing large animals, that we have all sorts of idiotic advise. A delusion of adequacy springs to mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 The farmer can call the local service for the collection of fallen stock. While digging holes for fence posts many years ago,i found a cows skull in my garden-this is not a joke!!! Im guessing the rest of the bones are still beneath my lawn unless this is the result from some sort of devil worshipping from hundreds of years ago,but its probably likely it was buried by the farmer long before these houses were built (1969). Was it legal to bury cattle on your own farmland??? Ps.No i dont still have it-i took the skull up the council tip few days later.It was enormous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) Was it legal to bury cattle on your own farmland??? Yes until the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak when the law was changed. Now you can only bury a 'pet' BUT NOT livestock UNLESS in approved remote areas (basically Scottish highlands and islands) Edited for clarity Edited September 8, 2010 by apache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Yes until the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak when the law was changed. Now you can only bury a 'pet' or livestock in approved remote areas (basically Scottish highlands and islands) Cheers for that. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dempy Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) You contradict yourself, the user isn't competent othersie he wouldn't have asked on the internet would he? Apache, its still wrong in my opinion, a person of you profession to be giving advise over the internet on how to shoot a large animal, you know aswell as me that if it goes wrong it really goes wrong...if you had a client ring you, and if you were in middle of a emergency procedure would you tell them to 'try' and shoot the animal? I doubt it. Maybe this a lesson that livestock owners, like me and others, should get some training from the hsa or some other body (IE your local slaughterhouse on how to humanely dispatch animals with the minimal risk to human safety and ethical consideration). It looks dreadful that on a shooting forum that, as it appears, only 3 people have any real experience of killing large animals, that we have all sorts of idiotic advise. A delusion of adequacy springs to mind... If he is a shooting person, there is an elment of competence with a gun, if you know how to shoot and you are told that a shotgun is adequate for the job at hand (and I mean no offence by this) it aint rocket science. Everyone on here has dispatched animals at some time this is just a question on size, would you suggest that people should take a qualified slaughterman with them each time they went deer stalking? Just in case they wounded one. Edited September 8, 2010 by Dempy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEREALTHRILLER Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 This is a very interesting subject. On the farm where I shoot there are lots of cattle and sheep and I've often wondered what i would do if one day the farmer asked me to destroy a sick or injured animal...to be honest I don't know if I would be confident enough to do it. A sheep maybe as it's a far smaller animal but a cow or bull.....hopefully I'll never be asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) If he is a shooting person, there is an elment of competence with a gun, if you know how to shoot and you are told that a shotgun is adequate for the job at hand (and I mean no offence by this) it aint rocket science. Everyone on here has dispatched animals at some time this is just a question on size, would you suggest that people should take a qualified slaughterman with them each time they went deer stalking? Just in case they wounded one. Thats why we have dsc's, and thats why slaughtermen get assessed in a similar way. And a question of size? I presume you're joking, a simple risk assessment to relate a wounded jack compared to a ton of wounded bull isn't rocket science either is it? Edited September 8, 2010 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Apache, its still wrong in my opinion, a person of you profession to be giving advise over the internet on how to shoot a large animal, you know aswell as me that if it goes wrong it really goes wrong...if you had a client ring you, and if you were in middle of a emergency procedure would you tell them to 'try' and shoot the animal? I doubt it. I have no illusion of grandeur and I am wrong at time! The Animal Welfare Act 2006 puts the emphasis on owner of the animal to provide for its welfare and prevent unnecessary suffering. In my opinion keepers of animals that can't be easily transported to the vet should have the means and skill required to perform emergency euthanasia if necessary. I agree with you it's not the ideal thing to learn off the internet. less vets and less slaughtermen mean animals may have to wait an unacceptable length of time for skilled assistance. If an animal has an obvious broken leg then I think it's better the owner goes for the shotgun or captive bolt and puts it out of its misery there and then. If we have less vets covering bigger areas wouldn't it be better us doing the saving of lives (calvings and caesarians) rather than the humane killing of animals. Shooting a cow is not hard - I could teach it to any capable person (is SGC holder) in a few minutes. In the past I have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.