Are Teague chokes worth the money???

[TONY R]

To make a conclusive case for one brand, extended, ported etc. to throw better patterns than any other, the chokes concerned would have to be tested with every brand of shell, every size of shell, every load variation and at varying distances.

 

It just doesn't happen.

No but it could and if i were to have to pick one choke to do that deed with lead TSS steel copper or whatever i would pick a terror everytime over every other brand and model.

Its not opinion it really is a fact of life they just work so well at long range, some turkey chokes will perform similar patterns because with a terror that effectively what you have a turkey type choke designed for waterfowl and they work, ask anyone who owns one dont take just my word for it.

terrors are no dark secret they are common knowledge, and although other chokes will work in some cases, if i had to pick one for everything at long range Terrors everytime my choice .

[ChrisAsh]

The funny thing is gun makers selling them with one make of choke this year and next year a different choke, they seem to think it makes them sell better than supplying their own chokes

[TONY R]

The funny thing is gun makers selling them with one make of choke this year and next year a different choke, they seem to think it makes them sell better than supplying their own chokes

Well this is true up to a poiunt, Browning saw clearly that the Briley tubes internal profiles were working well in their guns, ask any INV plus user who instaled a Briley choke and they will generaly tell you the briley choke tubes work, It can be in any gun any GA.

Take the factory full in a Browning 10 or a briley IM .745 constriction by example the .745 is a superior choke in everyway with any shot type to the 10 factory full.

brileys are a cheap but good choke browning saw this knew they could not produce chokes any cheaper than briley suplied them to Browning so they Joined forces and sold their tubes in some of their guns, its that simple.

Its not just a marketing thing, brileys work, ask any waterfowler who hunts at longer ranges on shores, who use brileys in IM or Light fulls they know they work better than factory tubes just ask them. Browning just lestened and went with it and it paid off.

[Gordon R]

Its not opinion it really is a fact of life

 

 

It is not a fact. It is just an opinion - nothing more. If you are adamant, perhaps you might publish the data for every shell ever made - tested in the very choke.

 

I can't ask anyone about the chokes, as I don't know a single person who uses them. Then again, it would be a waste of time, as most people swear by the chokes that they use - probably a co-incidence.

[TONY R]

 

It is not a fact. It is just an opinion - nothing more. If you are adamant, perhaps you might publish the data for every shell ever made - tested in the very choke.

 

I can't ask anyone about the chokes, as I don't know a single person who uses them. Then again, it would be a waste of time, as most people swear by the chokes that they use - probably a co-incidence.

Thats not quite how it works with terrors im afraid, those who have them KNOW they WORK. its not debatable im afraid they are as good as it gets in a one stop choke tube for any shot type. they work with steel lead tss anything, and their patterns are considerably superior in everyway to any other choke tubes available at the moment.

this is not just my opinion. Terrors are not a gymic to be boasted about they deliver that is a FACT>

Edited August 26, 2016 by TONY R

[Gordon R]

I have no wish to get into a prolonged debate, but just how can you describe your opinion as a fact? If I bought one and said it was rubbish, would that be a fact?

I have owned the following chokes:-

Teagues, Kicks, Spectrum, Open Season, Beretta Optima, Beretta Mobil, Browning Invector, Browning Invector Plus, Rhino, Lanber, Winchester and more.

As I have owned them, I now say they are considerably superior, in every way, to every other choke on the planet, including "Terror". It is not just my opinion, it has become fact.

[timps]

But it is just an opinion that they are better, you obviously think they have an advantage but to state they will be better as a matter of fact in all circumstances is just not correct.

 

Without any form of test data comparing different makes of guns, ammo and chokes it is just an opinion without any basis of fact i.e. an opinion.

 

I had a Browning with Invector + and also used aftermarket Brileys. The Briley chokes were physically tighter than standard Browning ones, ¼ was nearly a ½ and ½ was nearly ¾ compared to the equivalent Browning ones using my digital gauge to measure them.

 

So when I first stuck in a Briley ¼ in I was amazed at how much better it was than the standard ¼ Browning. When I actually measured them I realised I had to compared the Briley ¼ to a Browning ½ and in that comparison there was sod all difference. Without my gauge I would have thought it was some kind of magic but I am not that easily fooled.

 

I have also used Muller chokes in a Beretta optibore, comparing a U2 to the standard ¼ choke is not correct as the U2 is akin to a Beretta 3/8 on the gauge & not a magical ¼ as some would have you believe.

 

What is written on the outside of the choke is irrelevant as Hamster has said you can invariably achieve the same results by choosing a tighter or more open choke from the standard chokes.

 

As Gordon has said changing brand of cartridges also plays a big part, Fiocchi F Blacks do not give the same results as Eley Olympic blues. I dropped to 3/8 from ½ choke on that change of cartridge alone.

 

You might love your terror chokes but to claim they are superior in every way to anything out there is a bold claim to make without doing any form of comparative tests.

Edited August 26, 2016 by timps

[Gordon R]

After reading the posts about Terror chokes, I Googled them. They enjoy a very decent reputation, but are not without their critics.

 

TONY R - if they work for you, that is all that should matter to you. However, you will not convince a cynic without some genuine facts.

[Hamster]

Thats not quite how it works with terrors im afraid, those who have them KNOW they WORK. its not debatable im afraid they are as good as it gets in a one stop choke tube for any shot type. they work with steel lead tss anything, and their patterns are considerably superior in everyway to any other choke tubes available at the moment.

this is not just my opinion. Terrors are not a gymic to be boasted about they deliver that is a FACT>

 

That is a terror bly illogical assumption. How do you know they are so superior in every way ? What is superior ? What criteria ? Tighter ? More Even ? Both?

[Smokersmith]

Reading this, I think Tony's enthusiasm for Terrors comes from his experience that they hold big loads of fast steel together at range better than most things you'll ever throw in the end of your fowling gun ..... and I agree with that.

 

My experience with a Wad Wizard (again with fowling home loads) was that it threw VERY even patterns at 40 yards ... but a bit further out and they lost density pretty quickly.

 

I also shoot a few clays, and a Terror would be the last thing I'd want .... which is the biggest pattern of evenly spread of shot that will kill that clay consistently at the range needed, and with the cartridge that I want to use. Standard Maxis chokes in my CG do the job very well, and I can't believe I will kill anymore by changing them.

 

Interestingly, I also patterned my 100 year old SBS the other day, and with 30g Supreme game I had beautiful even patterns ..... with a clear choice between the 2 barrels on which would suit closer/ further away stuff.

 

So .... for me, the results don't really deliver v the hype .... a consistent mount, keeping your eyes on the target, and getting your feet right will do most folks far more good.

[JohnfromUK]

.... a consistent mount, keeping your eyes on the target, and getting your feet right will do most folks far more good.

 

+1

[TONY R]

Reading this, I think Tony's enthusiasm for Terrors comes from his experience that they hold big loads of fast steel together at range better than most things you'll ever throw in the end of your fowling gun ..... and I agree with that.

 

My experience with a Wad Wizard (again with fowling home loads) was that it threw VERY even patterns at 40 yards ... but a bit further out and they lost density pretty quickly.

 

I also shoot a few clays, and a Terror would be the last thing I'd want .... which is the biggest pattern of evenly spread of shot that will kill that clay consistently at the range needed, and with the cartridge that I want to use. Standard Maxis chokes in my CG do the job very well, and I can't believe I will kill anymore by changing them.

 

Interestingly, I also patterned my 100 year old SBS the other day, and with 30g Supreme game I had beautiful even patterns ..... with a clear choice between the 2 barrels on which would suit closer/ further away stuff.

 

So .... for me, the results don't really deliver v the hype .... a consistent mount, keeping your eyes on the target, and getting your feet right will do most folks far more good.

It is indeed the case with me, but not just steel the heavy toungstens respond to nthe terror chokes constriction, very well and in fact lead too, its just a turkey choke built to survive steel due to constriction which is EXTREME not to put too fine a point on it.

Now movinbg on to your coments on clays i again tentd to agree with you a little tight in some cercumstances and we all know you can sometimes get away with a lot less choke than is generaly needed, and for such occasions even the factory choke can sometime hold up as GOOD ENOUGH or FIT FOR TASK, call it what you will.

and in such cases the Teagues will do ok, my coments were if you look back Teagues are nothing special. They are just chokes they dont offer anything any different to THE norm expected of a choke. in their designated constriction and defined use.

i used Terrors as an obvious Choke some here will know and have experience with, i could have used other brands and models Indian creek just google thhem they are that bbit special in what they do, but Indian creek are mainly turkey chokes, but the BD triumph waterfowls are still good but dont have the ellete performance in thir field of use as the indian creek BD strike tubes have.

My point is SOME tubes are that bit special and to state as some have on here its just hype is just wrong.

Now touching on one more point in your post on your findings with the Wad wizard tube, and its downrange capabilities, Im not decrying the WW is a fine choke system high quality and cabable and the patterns produced for the constriction prove the was retarding webs do indeed work, and on lower velocity loads up to the 1450 1500fps sort of area they do work well very well with some loads TPS wads by example seem to work pretty good with the WW set ups i know because my mate runs them i see his loads on the pattern plate regularly, but i dont acctualy own one.

But one thing i will say re the WWs as good as they are they are not terror tubes they dont work ultimatly as good , terrors realy can not be critisised by anybody, quite who the alleged critics are or what they critisise about terror chokes and the way they perform i struggle to understand, they just dominate the long range choke scene hands down they have competitors but none beat them in function

 

One last point i do think if you put a .675 terror in one of your INV plus barrels and used it on clays i think you might be suprised at what they work like, the .655s are i must say a bit much sometimes but the .675s are pretty good all round and even too never seen a poor pattern from a .675 to date.

PS in not on terrors payrol and any commision, but if i just convert one more usere to going for a terror choke, it will be well woryth me jumping down in this pit of wolves any day.

 

Just in case anybody is still in any doubt that terror chokes are just hype or a name without real value when compared to the chokes you were given with your gun from new.

Take a look at this page. and in fact all Drundels page here, its been out a long time this page now but its still as relivent now as it ever was.

Any body bothered to put together a page like this on teague chokes? If so post a link.

 

http://shotshell.drundel.com/patterns/tripleb.htm

Edited August 27, 2016 by TONY R

[dougall]

chokes do half get talked about alot.....I firmly think they are the least important thing about shooting a shotgun half successfully....as a simple lad less choke makes a shotgun what it is a gun that sends a spread of shot to hit moving things.If all targets were at 40-50 yards then more is better but for vast majority who shoot sporting clays/wood pigeons I think more than 1/2 choke is some kind of macho thing.....will a 1/4 choke break all sporting clays yes...even out to silly ranges.My conclusion of fiddling over the years is 3/4/7/8/full are great at 40-50 yard birds BUT a handicap at 25-35yarders..I dont buy the 'it will smash em' argument I buy the it will miss em argument!...my experience is they have a 'sweetspot' but it is quite a narrow sweet spot.Clearly for clays only 1 or 2 pellets needed for a break whereas for live things want 3-4 hits so only if out shooting live things from 40-50 yards does a lot of choke have some logic...multi choke has been great for the shooting world because it gives more accessories a market but of all the things to think about for the vast majority of us shooters I do think choke tubes should be the last. I believe Digweed/Faulds/Winser/Ed all use alot of choke but these folk have got to the point where the last consideration can be finely tuned and considered.I've just bought a gun with fixed choke 'cos I don't even want to think about it!!!..ported/extended/flushed/briley/teague/terror/muller/optima/invector/plus or minus.......my head hurts!!If unsure about choke go with less simples...£200-300 on sets of aftermarket chokes would be a few lessons with a top coach...one form of expenditure will be an investment the other just adds more choice and confusion...if you are not hitting enough it ain't the chokes.

[Scully]

 

Any body bothered to put together a page like this on teague chokes? If so post a link.

 

http://shotshell.drundel.com/patterns/tripleb.htm

 

Could it be that perhaps they just don't feel the need? You appear desperate to prove a point on which not many folk are interested.

[TONY R]

 

Could it be that perhaps they just don't feel the need? You appear desperate to prove a point on which not many folk are interested.

I do DESPERATLY TRY TO HELP PEOPLE.

 

As for me proving a point.... What is to be gained there for me or anyone.?

And as for interested or not people who do try these chokes wont go back in the vast majority of cases.

Im not on comision regarding sales or anybodys payroll. But i like to see felow wildfowlers and shooters get the best from their sport, if your good self feels i am so teribly wrong in this or if i have stoop opn your or anyone elses toes in anything i have said, i am genuinely sorry. I can assure you my intention was only ever to offer accurate advice.

[Scully]

I can assure you you haven't stepped on my toes at least, and it wasn't my intention to infer you had or that you're wrong.

It's nice to see someone passionate about something, and I'm sure those who are interested enough will take note, but with sincere respect, I have been shooting long enough to know that if and when I miss, it wont be down to the choke.

[Gordon R]

I took some time - too much - and had a look through the Terror Chokes data. Some impressive percentages, but some big holes in the patterns.

[TONY R]

I can assure you you haven't stepped on my toes at least, and it wasn't my intention to infer you had or that you're wrong.

It's nice to see someone passionate about something, and I'm sure those who are interested enough will take note, but with sincere respect, I have been shooting long enough to know that if and when I miss, it wont be down to the choke.

Missing is not always clean missing if it were i would basicaly agree with you, but i know that In some scenarios ranges and quary types swaping from say a Terror choke or other choke of choice for a given load, back to a recomended for steel factory choke, will turn an efficient nigh on guaranteed clean kill into a maybe not something i care to contemplate personaly, ill stick with what i have evidence works and i would not expect anybody else do do any different whatever their findings were.

[TONY R]

I took some time - too much - and had a look through the Terror Chokes data. Some impressive percentages, but some big holes in the patterns.

Terror chokes are not a guarantee of pulling a half decent load up the efficiencey scale, But they are the best or among the very best platforms in which to develpod very impressive long range loads, Many of the loads on that site there are mere factory offering unbuffered.

Many reloads again no mention of development, they could in many cases be a first try.

Its down to the individual to decide exactly what% effort he or she wants to put into load dxevelopment, that can vary any where in any degree between walking into The local gun shop buying the ammo on offer going out and shooting at geese with them, to Countless hours of time money and effort trying to get every part of your equiptment including yourself at the very top of its capability.

We are all different, but this changes nothing re Terror chokes in any given load they ussualy in my case i believe always produce about as good a pattern as one can get if not THE BEST.

And take away any personal input to that last statement and look at any of the terror patterns on that entire site they are all pretty dominant compared to the oposition.

Edited August 30, 2016 by TONY R

[Gordon R]

In percentage terms - they come out of it well - on the smallish sample. There are many shells tested, but how many rounds of each? I'm sure shell manufacturers spend a little more time on research.

 

That said, you are clearly a fan and they are decent chokes. I just don't see the convincing evidence which would make anyone buy them.

 

The thread is not about shooting large diameter pellets at extreme range. Where is the comparison with Teague chokes - which is what the thread is about?

[TONY R]

In percentage terms - they come out of it well - on the smallish sample. There are many shells tested, but how many rounds of each? I'm sure shell manufacturers spend a little more time on research.

 

That said, you are clearly a fan and they are decent chokes. I just don't see the convincing evidence which would make anyone buy them.

 

The thread is not about shooting large diameter pellets at extreme range. Where is the comparison with Teague chokes - which is what the thread is about?

No but in my very first mention of terrors i pointed out the fact Teagues are Just chokes nothing special and dont do anything out of the ordinary on performance, i even pointed out Terrors are basicly a turkey choke made to handle steel or other shot types, they work with lead TSS anything just the same, but they do handle steel which was their primary intention when JP approache Jeff Hagar with the idea. Look at the ten .775 bore .720 or .705 terror thats a lot of choke and says right there its not ussual in its construction of inner profiling, teagues on the other hand are pretty much as chokes come and carelsens brileys etc are all over teagues and a lot less money. that was in my first post on this subject.

[Scully]

The thread is titled 'Are Teague chokes worth the Money', and I have to say that in my opinion, yes, they are.

[TONY R]

The thread is titled 'Are Teague chokes worth the Money', and I have to say that in my opinion, yes, they are.

And i made it clear i dont think they are and gave complete reasons why by way of comparison for the OP.

Teagues are general used in most guns if the gun was origanly

A never fitted with chokes and you want multi chokes.

B, the chokes were originaly fixed and some mupet damaged or did a ham fisted job of reaming them out and the Teagues are installed to rectify the issue or put some choke back in the gun.

C the original choke threads have become damaged to such an extent they can not be repaired and Teagues are fitted to again rectify this fault.

 

THe op has from what i gather perfectly serviceable Mobil choke tubes in his gun now, My advice took into account he seemed to imply are be asking if teagues would improve his gun, I dont think so and said as such.

He can by any number of perfectly suitable chokes from a great many aftermarket choke manufacturers besides teague.

Many of these available choke will offer him any kind of choke pervformancxe he might require to screw straight into his gun as it is now.

I thought it was sound practical advice myself. And io stand by what i said.

If you dissagree which you clearly do thats your perogotive.

Edited August 30, 2016 by TONY R

[Scully]

And i made it clear i dont think they are and gave complete reasons why by way of comparison for the OP.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. It's all subjective.

[Gordon R]

I believe Terror Chokes are the best chokes in the Universe.

They are infinitely superior to Teague, Briley, Carlson, Spectrum, Rhino, Kicks, Mandel, Muller, Trulock, Comp-N-Choke, Jebs, Wad Wizard, Patternmaster, Hastings, Colonial, Indian Creek, Hevi-Shot, Foiles and Angle Porting.

I have written this, so there can be no disputing the "facts".