Firefighters Strike

[vole]

I would normally support the Firefighters but the hard ball tactics put me off . They should have tapped into their post 9/11 hero status achieved by the NY service, instead a Mr Gilchrist dragged their name through the mud with a series of strikes in the UK . As a health worker I would take industrial action but would never withdraw my services to the extent that patients were left at risk at all . I would feel I was using their suffering as a bargaining tool and our code of conduct would rightly lead to our sacking as we are not to harm them . I wish them luck but they need a more clever approach here .

[al4x]

As for the sacking and re employment anyone who goes through a change of contracts does the same, simple facts are they don't like it and its the implications on their second jobs that is the problem. I don't know many jobs where you can spend half your working week asleep so they do get their perks all that said they do a great job but the facts with the London strike is 5000 firefighters out on strike and the relief crews had to deal with 169 incidents, to my mind they should hang onto a good thing before as Mungler says they join the real world and have to manage with less people

[Supersonic]

Firefighters have just joined the ranks of Tube workers and postmen.

 

Selfish lefty *****. What makes them exempt from a global recession?

 

*****!!

 

Nigel

[snozzer]

sad but true.

 

what would make their night would be some children burning to death.

 

then they would be able to say, you need us.

 

If that happened the public would turn on the firemen so quickly, they would become pariahs

[shaun4860]

OK it`s simple, usually you work a 10 hr dayshift, some do a 9, then gaffer says, we`ll sack you and re-employ on new terms of 12 hrs, that means you will have to get another 2-3 hrs of child care and so be it as we want you to work this system as it suits us and doesn`t cost us.

 

That any easier?

 

Lastly, please tell us how to Please, we are all ears !

 

Thats exactly what they did to us, (wagon driver working 48 hours over 6 days, they then changed it to 48 hours over 7 days), union said once they give you notice of a change of hours and conditions thats it, we cant help you.

now i cant see the country being up in arms about a load of delivery drivers being on strike.

 

oh and check the statistics of deaths of HGV drivers per year.

 

 

Firefighters have it hard doing a really dangerous job(according to the HSE there is 22 more dangerous jobs out there in the uk)and not being able to manage on 30k a year because they will now have to find a baby sitter for an extra few hours a week.

 

I think it is more to do with the change in shifts conflicting with their second jobs that is the problem here....

 

 

I think that hits the nut on the head, nobody is saying they dont do a good job, but as has been said before, when i went to work nightshift, i went to work, not sleep if i wasnt called out,

 

Legislation of hours says i couldnt have second job as it interfered with my legal time off.

 

Im Afraid Henry you wont win this argument on here as everyone is being forced to change to adapt to the **** that the Labour Govt. left us in.....

 

Most of the firefighters i know have second jobs, so on top of the "Generous" pay and conditions they get, they can then (providing they dont get called out) go home from a good nightshifts sleep and start afresh.

 

Yes we know about the " i hope you dont get involved in a carcrash and need us" guilt trip thats trooped out every time but its wearing thin.

 

Shaun

[henry d]

The thread is pointless but an interesting mud-fling-fest.

 

Mark my words, changes will be implemented, the strike will get the fireman nowhere apart from diminished public support, and anyone reading back on this post in 1 years time will say blimey that Mungler's spot on again, how does he do it?

 

Fireman, tube workers and people who work for the Royal Mail - fair play you can go down fighting, but you can't fight change forever.

 

True and I have to add, it`s better to fight it than get shafted by rolling over !

 

It`s a fire service don`t let the Tories cut it back so that it becomes a laughing stock.

 

Here`s my tip for the next 10yrs, more, and bigger, fires, more fire deaths, more firefighter deaths.

[Blackbart]

True and I have to add, it`s better to fight it than get shafted by rolling over !

 

It`s a fire service don`t let the Tories cut it back so that it becomes a laughing stock.

 

Here`s my tip for the next 10yrs, more, and bigger, fires, more fire deaths, more firefighter deaths.

 

Rubbish..

 

How will fireman being asked to change working hours create more and bigger fires ?

 

Unless the fireman are starting the fires in protest

[artschool]

There will actually be less fires because more money and time is being spent on prevention.

[dazza]

THERE IS NO MONEY TO PAY FOR ALL THESE PUBLIC SERVICES.

 

Seems to be plenty of money in the public purse to pay for lazy wasters to sit at home all day and claim every benefit under the sun. Plenty of money to keep all the Ali Wali F'ukbar's and their twenty children in their lavishly furnished state funded mansions.

[Canis]

Henry D

 

While I am appreciative of the fact that firefighters, like service personel, perform extremely necessary, if somewhat unpleasant at times work for the greater good of your fellow english/scot/welsh man; I think that striking at the moment is liable to be shooting yourselves in the foot ! as i see it striking at Novenber 5 is going to have one of two possible outcomes.

 

1. more people die/suffer fire related injury on your big call out night of the year - the firefighters will be held morally if not legally responsible.

 

2. IF no greater number of people die/suffer injuries - on your big call out night of the year- the firefighters will have demonstrated a potential for manpower savings.

 

Everyone that works in the private sector is used to their terms of employment changing occaisionally particularly when funding is tight. most employee's in any industry would be quite happy at the moment If the adffects of the recession are having to accept different shift paterns if t no one has to loose their job.

[barrelsniffer]

the military are not allowed to strike and get paid tuppance even while in battle compared to the firemen who do few days on few days off. the police are not allowed to strike. so why the **** are the fire and rescue services allowed to strike more often than the french air traffic contollers. ******* dry your eyes and get your contracts signed or **** off, i'm sure their are plenty of people who would love to take your jobs!

 

Dont we have the same **** every 2-3 yrs with them ?

 

Rant over.

 

Mick

[southdowns_stalking]

I have to agree with most of the argument you make Other than the one about the retained duty system

 

I think the retained service provide and excellent service (I would because I have been retained for 20 years) throughout this country and without it the whole time service would be un-sustainable due to its cost. I won't get into a whole time / retained thing because there has been too much of that in the past and it should never happen. But I don't agree with your innuendo that the retained system is possibly a second class service, and that we take longer to mobilise an appliance. This may be the case in your area, but this is not the norm throughout the country. We have a whole time day crew on station 5 days a week and when the bells go down I can assure you we have a crew in the station before the whole time have turned a wheel. On average the retained mobilise an appliance in our area within 3-4 minutes (on the road) from the time the alerters actuate wherever they may be, at work or home, also tell me what other job in this country offers a service where someone presses a button a 3 A.M and has 20 persons running to one place within 3-4 minutes to man a pump to go to who know what for £15.

 

I'm not going to be drawn in to the debate whether striking is right or wrong, or if the fire-service should be allowed to. But those who moan they are working 24 hours a day for no extra, you always have the working time directive to fall back on, and as has been said during this post you knew what you signed up for

 

It takes your day crew 3-4mins to turn out?

[death from below]

the military are not allowed to strike and get paid tuppance even while in battle compared to the firemen who do few days on few days off. the police are not allowed to strike. so why the **** are the fire and rescue services allowed to strike more often than the french air traffic contollers. ******* dry your eyes and get your contracts signed or**** off, i'm sure their are plenty of people who would love to take your jobs!

 

Dont we have the same **** every 2-3 yrs with them ?

 

Rant over.

 

Mick

 

Wow, superb rant - I've never known so much hidden swearing get past the ever vigilent mods - For my bit, most fire blokes and bloke-esses I've met are a real good bunch of people but the strike thing really does get on my Boobtubes - like already mentioned, striking has never achieved anything other than quicker redundancies (unless you're in france of course - God don't get me started on France - we need to start an anti - French post I reckon and aim loads of stuff at half french wanna be froggie PW members so they get really cross ). Protesting is a different matter - the site of several hundred fire(wo)men marching on downing street will have far more effect and galvanise public support than striking (especially on bonfire night - if anything happens resulting in death/serious injury then the Sun will be all over it on the 6th November). London is in the grip of yet another tube strike and all they are achieving, other than peeing off the public, is a quicker liklihood of job losses. I'm suprised the LFB haven't learnt from the last major strike when the army/police did a great job covering them and it took a long time for the LFB to build public support after the event. I'm all for standing up for our rights, I just don't see striking as a suitable option for public servants as important as the fire brigade.

[Mungler]

the military are not allowed to strike and get paid tuppance even while in battle compared to the firemen who do few days on few days off. the police are not allowed to strike. so why the **** are the fire and rescue services allowed to strike more often than the french air traffic contollers. ******* dry your eyes and get your contracts signed or**** off, i'm sure their are plenty of people who would love to take your jobs!

 

Dont we have the same **** every 2-3 yrs with them ?

 

Rant over.

 

Mick

 

 

I vote Mickey act as mediator in the current dispute

[southdowns_stalking]

fact is you could run the fire service with less men and less cost.

 

when the country has loads of money then largesse on the public services is fine.

 

now we are skint these cuts are inevitable, so striking is pointless.

 

 

construction industry.

 

So how about cancelling every contract in the construction industry and saying you can have it back once we have changed it? The point im making is that its a contract but these days it does not mean anything whatever industry or job you are in.

[al4x]

I vote Mickey act as mediator in the current dispute

 

 

and in the tube dispute put him up against Bob Crow and you would have youtube gold

[artschool]

So how about cancelling every contract in the construction industry and saying you can have it back once we have changed it? The point im making is that its a contract but these days it does not mean anything whatever industry or job you are in.

 

hahahahahahaaaaaaaaghahahahhaha.

 

please tell me you are kidding.

 

that is exactly what happened, everything stopped over night.

 

we got hit first and construction takes the longest to recover, but thats life.

[southdowns_stalking]

I said every contract like they want to do with the firefighters, yes some parts of the construction industry did stop over night but others grew. I was just making a point about contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.....if someone wants to change them they will.

[artschool]

I said every contract like they want to do with the firefighters, yes some parts of the construction industry did stop over night but others grew. I was just making a point about contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.....if someone wants to change them they will.

 

true about the contracts.

 

by all the indices i have looked at there isnt any growth in the construction sector, but it will come back once the banks start lending.

[Marley29]

You obviously don't have a flipping clue what you're talking about - nice to know the boys and girls are putting their lives on the line (yes, of course they know they are) for the likes of you to sit at home and write compete dribble like that

 

Bloated pension out of proportion to the job they've been doing? The country needs people like you like a hole in the head.

 

You mate, are a ***** of the highest order!

 

Well said that man

[death from below]

true about the contracts.

 

by all the indices i have looked at there isnt any growth in the construction sector, but it will come back once the banks start lending.

 

in the downtime that a recession brings, you could start courses gearing school leavers for a career in construction;

1) How to spend lunchtime in the pub getting sozzled

2) How to hang around on scaffolding wolf whistling at fine young ladies passing by

3) How to wear over sized brown boots and jeans that show half a mile of bum crack

4) How to drive a battered white van at 1000 mph with little thought for anyone else on the road

5) How to make half the stock that goes through the front gate disappear immediately out the back gate in the back of the van mentioned at point 4 above

6) How to swing it at home so that you don't, other than providing a bit of house keeping, do anything whatsoever inside your own 4 walls so although one may be highly qualified as a plumber/sparky/joiner, there own home is in desperate need of a plumber/sparky/joiner.

 

You'd make a fortune in no time running a course teaching useful construction and site skills as listed above.

[KPV4]

It takes your day crew 3-4mins to turn out?

 

 

Very often especially when they are drilling in the yard and got a load of equipment out.

 

When I respond to my alerter in the day from work (about 1 mile from the station) I am often turning into the station yard before the 1st appliance has left with the day crew on board or I meet it about 100 yards from the station doors. Saying that they are quicker sometimes but depends on what they are doing. My point was that there is no need to belittle the retained service as second best because it isn't, we work very well with our whole time colleagues and have ridden appliances mixed crewed since I have been in the service, as I said thats 20 years

 

There are issues that need to be addressed in all fire and rescue services throughout the country, not just London, these changes are coming to all of us and there will be no stopping them. Our brigade is under review and proposed changes are being put before the fire Authority. Every whole time station in our brigade is having their whole time shift pattern changed (and some quite dramatically) there will only be one whole time station left on the old 4 on 4 off system, talks of well over 100 whole time fire fighter jobs to go, pensions will be changing dramatically, appliances will be removed and possibly stations closed. I'm afraid we have to move with the times, and before anyone shouts "its OK for you its only your part time job" this is happening where I'm employed full time as well, so possibly a double whammy We will have to wait and see

 

As for secondary employment, no one should moan we all have the same opportunity as long as your main employer has been informed, given permission, and it doesn't effect your main employment there shouldn't be a problem. Oh, I just forgot the main one....they also pay tax and national insurance on the earnings as well. I have a second job (retained) and my employers is perfectly happy as long as it doesn't effect his business and I pay full tax and national insurance on this earnings. So I'm paying two lots of both tax and national insurance with no chance of submitting my own tax returns and bending the rules to suit, it is all taken at source.

 

On one point about the H.M Forces, they deserve far more than they get, in both wages and appreciation. They need to be supported by everyone in this country for the difficult conditions they are experiencing, but as has been said previously about various jobs, they knew what they were signing up for and the conditions that applied (such as not being able to strike) and the possibility of being killed in action. They should also remember the good times they had in the past travelling the world at the expense of the tax payer when no conflicts were under way. I have two very good friends who are in the Royal Marines and have been for over 20 years and a friend who was in the Royal Navy for 25+ years. Before these recent conflicts started they would come home on leave and be more than happy to tell everyone how many countries they had visited on a jolly (including skiing in Norway) and about their times supping vast quantities of ale while being paid wages at the tax payers expense. My mate from the Navy has been to more countries than I've seen on TV. My opinion has always been good luck to them, I had the chance if I had have wanted, the same as everyone on here has had the chance to join the fire service.

 

I have no axe to grind with any of the careers mentioned in this thread. I think we have completely forgotten why we are in this mess, and they are getting away scott free, THE BANKERS. When they got us into this mess we have bailed them out by getting into huge debts, when are they going to pay the money back with interest so we can pay our debts off ?

[reddan]

I have no axe to grind with any of the careers mentioned in this thread. I think we have completely forgotten why we are in this mess, and they are getting away scott free, THE BANKERS. When they got us into this mess we have bailed them out by getting into huge debts, when are they going to pay the money back with interest so we can pay our debts off ?

 

 

Bankers didn't force people to borrow huge amounts of cash, that said the last goverment actively incouraged it. Ironicly in part the quest for increased competion in the financial sector caused the melt down because new players didn't have the deposits from savers and just traded the money markets to lend (example Northern Rock). Because they could undercut at the time the whole market had to drop to keep customers, so credit was cheap and freeflowing until the money market got nervious. I can remember a time where mortgages were loss leading products to retain or attract new customers. Not a lot that is sustainable about that but true.

 

The situation banking is in due to excessive leveraging will take a long time to unwind.

 

The reason the cupboards are empty is not because of bank bale outs but because the past goverments have been spending more than they have been getting in.

 

If I remember right 27000 people at RBS have lost their jobs, I am going through the second restructure in a year with again the threat of losing mine. So not exactly scott free.

 

Shouldn't believe everything or indeed anything your read in the media. They love to focus in on the bonuses of london traders because they make good stories and witch hunts sells papers but in truth they are only a small part of the equation.

 

I don't think the Banking industry has helped by not explaining the situation and why the media is wrong. No one has an issue with the car sales man whos pay is made up prodomently with bonus or in fact any other sales job which will always have a bonus element. The sums of money some have earnt are sick but the media has jumped on any type of bonus in finance as criminal when the rest of the UK sales functions continue to pay and receive bonuses whilst moaning about bankers.

 

Dan

Edited November 3, 2010 by reddan

[chrispti]

Well said that man

 

 

Think you need to read back through the posts

[reaper6]

Make them work regular shifts...........bunch of wasters........had it to good too long