1652HCU Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Just picked out a few quotes from Stephen Archer: Stoeger X10/20 and X50 Performance "I'm finding these BAM-manufactured guns to be accurate and consistent. My test target group sizes are now about the same as for QB78 family air rifles as I become more proficient shooting the X10, X20 and X50. BTW, the X10 and X20 are the same mechanically, differing in stock style and scope fitted when in Combo form." And then from his http://www.archerairguns.info/search/label/Stoeger%20Airguns]Blog. "The Stoeger X10 and the Crosman Quest 1000X are "the same" air rifle. Both are manufactured by BAM in China and carry US brands. Both are based on the B18/19 platform and have similar specifications." Stephen Archer has written a small book on the Stoeger Airguns, called the Book of the Stoeger X10 X20 X50 version1 I suggest you keep an eye on his blog and his postings on Network54. The last book (a service manual regarding the QB78) he wrote, is being used by SAG (Shanghai Airgun Factory) the company that manufactures the QB78. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*danny* Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 excellent stuff, will keep an eye on that. and have a read later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*danny* Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 excellent stuff, will keep an eye on that. and have a read later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-70 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 I usually shoot .22 lr for rabbits, but at home where I cant use this I shoot an SMK SYNSG .22 with a cheap 4-12 x 50 hawk scope, does the job fine! Cost me about £190 for the scope and gun. Ok it's not as pretty as some of the more expensive rifles but I fail to see how some of these rifles fetch the money they do, I mean £500+! I didn't spend that on my .22lr , scope and moderator what's the point?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 The point is,Mark-70,a .22lr is a rifled tube with a bolt and a spring hanging off the back which is then plonked on top of a lump of wood-the accuracy and power are determined to a large extent by the ammo you feed it-the barrel is obviously very important but companies like BRNO have been using the same rifling machines for decades and can produce quality barrels at a bargain price.Airguns,on the other hand,are a different kettle of bananas altogether.To make an Airgun capable of consistency and accuracy over a long period of time takes good quality metals and modern, expensive, (i.e. CNC)type machinery.In real terms Airgun makers are small companies and costs involved in setting up production lines to make top range guns are astronomical-this is why some companies put out work to other companies-they can save a few quid on parts but at the cost of quality(in my opinion) unless the supplier is a specialist-i.e. Lother in the case of barrels-in which case you aint gonna save any pennies anyway.SMK guns are o.k. if thats what you want or need but top quality items they are not nor do they pretend to be.For all those who might suggest that these ****** puffguns are on a par with any quality maker (AA,HW,FWB e.t.c.)should answer one question honestly-If money was,nt a factor which gun would you buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-70 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Yea I agree, I'm certainly not suggesting there is no quality difference between high and low priced guns. What I'm saying is, the relevance is what you intend to do with it, IMO there is little point in spending all that cash on a top end pcp if maybe once a week you take it out and shoot the odd rabbit in the paddok behind you house or plinking cans and such in the back garden. Yes the SMK is cheaply made "****** puff gun" but achieves the desired result, which at the end of the day is to put the shot on the target and does so at a fraction of the price. It's not a question of "Money being a factor" but more of a £500+ solution to £100 problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*danny* Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 ****** puffguns :blink: you know thats a racist remark,on a public forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-70 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Wasn't my remark! Hence the quotations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Maybe a little time spent checking your facts would be time well spent *danny*-this is not considered a racist comment by anybody other than people who have nothing better to do or say than nit pick at other peoples posts.Check Wiki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-70 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Have to agree with bruno22rf! Wont be long before nobody dares to say anything for fear offending someone else. But hey that's not for here or now so let's stick to chatting about our guns, there's enough anti's against us as it is without sniping at each other surely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*danny* Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 in the context you used the word i would say it is racist as you are referring it to been chinese - the chinese are a race and thus it is racist, but hey ho was merely pointing it out as this is a public forum and some members MAY find it offensive back on topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-70 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 It's probably more the truth that the people it supposedly matters to are big enough to not care less, sticks and stones and all that. And that we are so frightened of being pollitcaly correct that it's us it bothers the most. Just my opinion and one that is most certainly not relevant on this forum so my apologies for straying off topic!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Would all those who were offended by the word "******" please stand up and be counted.(If your surname is Chan then your vote might not be counted but you may still be charged..........) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I've just consulted my gay Chinese friend Chan and he's not the slightest bit offended about '******' or a gun being used to shoot 'puffs'. In fact he is proud of his Father's shop which is known as the best ****** in town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaper6 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Ignore the Chinese at your peril! I have tried a few SMK guns tuned by Venoman and found them so astoundingly good I have now ordered one from him. An XS20, fully tuned with HW trigger modification and a custom carbine, shrouded barrel. If I hadn't ordered the barrel it would have been a gun that shoots BETTER than a standard HW95 for a fraction of the price. As it stands it's more like the price of a very cheap second hand HW95, but I just had to treat myself. It dont sound like you have much chinese left in that rifle......they have to be **** if you need to change them that much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Chinese airguns may not be up to the standards we want yet, but they are improving slowly but surely. As for having to fettle them to improve them, how many airgunners buy top end springers and then shell out for tuning kits or start weielding files and wet and dry to make them better? The UK and European airgun industry as a whole need to wise up to what is happening before they find themselves in the same position as the British motorcycle industry in the 60's. A little known Japanese company called Honda introduced a cheap and cheerful bike that the snobby purists all laughed at.History has a way of repeating itself and customers who make the swap to a cheaper but effective alternative rarely return to a more expensive brand. Another angle is the eventual introduction of a lead ban, it may be a long way away but when it happens we will have to use lead alternatives, how many air guns can you buy nowadays with unchoked barrels that are suitable for lead free pellets? Not very many, but I bet they're nearly all Chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*danny* Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 smk as far as i know are now using parts from english gunsmiths apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 smk as far as i know are now using parts from english gunsmiths apparently No. They are supposed to be assembled and checked by English gunsmiths. This was also the case in the past when the quality control was somewhat erratic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-70 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I think the over all quality of the SYNSG that i have is very acceptable given the price. I'm not so keen on the looks of other SMK guns even the one my dad had which was the popular one with the co2 bottle up front. The SYNSG seems to cock smoothly and even when cocked and the barrel hanging freely there is no play whatsoever anywhere! Accuracy with RWS superdomes seems consistent too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble without a cause Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 UPDATE... Sorry guys wanted to update this link because I tried out my mates SMK20 which he bought New with a bag and SMK scope for £100. When I compared it to my Weirauch it was near identical. Same safety, same barrel length.... Differences were power is down at 8.4 instead of 11.6. Not a threaded barrel so no silencer, but when we tested the sound level with a DB meter they both read 105dB!! Explain that one please? trigger is cheap, trigger guard is identical. Wood stock isn't the same quality, but very nice anyway and iron sights mounted for those who like them. So did I like it? , I would be more vocal on this one but I am too busy swallowing my humble pie :blink: So with the best part of £200 in your pocket, you can get a lot of tuning on a very nice rifle which is incredibly accurate at 30 yards. I am going to buy one to take out with the kids on targets at the gun club when I get some spare cash. Sorry Weirauch but you are going to have to justify why you charged me the extra £200!!! For all those arguing in favour of SMK I bow to your greater appreciation of a bargin when it lands in your lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 UPDATE... Sorry guys wanted to update this link because I tried out my mates SMK20 which he bought New with a bag and SMK scope for £100. When I compared it to my Weirauch it was near identical. Same safety, same barrel length.... Differences were power is down at 8.4 instead of 11.6. Not a threaded barrel so no silencer, but when we tested the sound level with a DB meter they both read 105dB!! Explain that one please? trigger is cheap, trigger guard is identical. Wood stock isn't the same quality, but very nice anyway and iron sights mounted for those who like them. So did I like it? , I would be more vocal on this one but I am too busy swallowing my humble pie :blink: So with the best part of £200 in your pocket, you can get a lot of tuning on a very nice rifle which is incredibly accurate at 30 yards. I am going to buy one to take out with the kids on targets at the gun club when I get some spare cash. Sorry Weirauch but you are going to have to justify why you charged me the extra £200!!! For all those arguing in favour of SMK I bow to your greater appreciation of a bargin when it lands in your lap. Aye, laddie. You Scots might be known for your frugality, but we Tykes are on a different level altogether! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one__shot Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 you should get a hw80 these guns are brilliant for controling rat problems and are extremly accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 this topic could go on forever we all shoot different rifles at different price ranges for 2 reasons 1 we want the best/dearest 2 we can only afford the cheaper models as said before a little elbow grease and a small amount of money goes a long way (with 3 smk rifles i know) but how many of you with high end value rifles could strip and repair if anything would happen to that prized possesion i know i can do it andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 as an smk owener i would say if you can afford better buy better i wish last year i saved my money and got something different although it is my chosen tool for pigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveieP Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 as an smk owener i would say if you can afford better buy better i wish last year i saved my money and got something different although it is my chosen tool for pigeons That's cos you should have bought an XS20 or TH208.LOL I did push the button on the Thumbhole XS208 as was my intention when I contributed to this post some time ago & v. happy that I did. Mounted a Niko Stirling Gold Crown Airking 4x12x42 on it. All looking & working v. nicely. I stand by all my comments made much earlier in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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