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inshallah

Hares ethical sub 12 ft lb

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i believe he is referring to the BASC Air Rifle Code of Practice

http://www.basc.org.uk/en/codes-of-practice/air-rifles.cfm

 

which lists....

 

Principal quarry for air rifles

 

BIRDS: (covered by the general licences) crows, rooks, jackdaws, magpies, jays, woodpigeon, collared doves, feral pigeons.

MAMMALS: brown rats, grey squirrels, stoats, mink and rabbits

 

 

Thank you Nick, just had a quick read through and although it gives some facts about what are pest species and which pests, birds and mammals can legally be shot with an airgun (under the general license rules), it does not list all pest species that can be shot with a sub 12 airgun. Just because they are not on their list, it doesn't make it illegal to shoot mice for instance.

 

There are various figures touted for the foot poundage needed to cleanly kill a rabbit with a well placed head shot, but I have never seen any figures given for Hares (which must be more).

 

Finally, I was offered to shoot as a guest on a couple of farms that were over run with hares, but there is something strange in my brain that says rabbits, yes, hares NO! Similarly, I dislike magpies intensely, but love to see doves, one mans meat.........

Edited by Requoil

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What gets me with the list is that Mink are on it and hares are not - isn't a mink easily as tough a critter as a hare?

Personally, I agree that if your marksmanship is up to it, at 25 yards with a decent air rifle, a brain shot does it just fine with hares and they drop the same as a bunny would.

In my area, hares just aren't common enough to shoot any more, so I'd rather see them running and breeding.

Sensible question though, nonetheless.

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I have taken them with sub 12ft/lb .177 air rifles,in fact my first kill was a seated hare using a Milbro 16 that must have been all of 6 ft/lb way back in 1973.

 

The answer to the question is in my opinion that it is possible, and it is ethical, as with all quarry, providing you can be reasonably sure of a clean kill. What is ethical and what is not varies from person to person and place to place. For example in France it is regarded as not ethical to shoot anything with an air weapon whereas in the States anything goes.

 

The reference to foxes and air rifles probably refers to licenced pest controllers in urban areas who use FAC rated rifles from very short range.

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There are many in the states who believe the minimum muzzle energy for shooting rats should be 250fpe.

In the real world, the hares brain offers the same resistance to an airgun pellet as a light bulb, wrapped in an orange skin.

Ideally rimfire, but at close range (sub 30 yards), an accurate shot from an airgun to the cranium is more than enough to do a humane job.

In the 22nd century, phasers will have replaced firearms in anycase :lol:

 

Bl**dy hell UKP! I was hatched in '73! :blink:

just goes to show that accuracy of shot placement beats outright power.

Edited by The Duncan

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i can tell im going to get ripped on looking at previous comments, but on my permissions if i go out shooting on a evening i will see about 1 rabbit for every 2 or three hares, the farmer wants me to shoot them.. i find them harder to stalk and usally spend just under an hour getting to a suitable ( close as possible) range before i take a shot head only. i know people will have their complaints, but we have (round us) an abundance of hares and when shot they do the whole back flip thing just like rabbits, then dead. i dont shoot them allot just once or twice a month, im a sucker for a decent jugged hare.. :') also i had been out three nights before that trying to get close and just watched them like inshallah said, they are beautifull animals and since ive seen them boxing, i havnt had the heart, when the land owners son was younger him and his friends used to as he put it "really give the rabbits a bashing" and now there isnt that many about- still no complaints , plenty of pigeons and crows and squirrels. and A line has to be drawn and all this about killing foxes with an air rifle.. okay they are pests.. but at least give them a quick and "painless" death, Ill still be eating my jugged hare in the end, just take the shotgun when i have that sorted , and in the mean time ribbits :)

Edited by demonwolf444

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I was always under the impression that hares were counted as 'game' so had a season :hmm:

And under that rule only the shooting rights owners could shoot them in season

Im on tennant farm so dont have shooting rights for game, but there is a note that says in case of large numbers when causing damage they can be shot by the farmer as being a pest, if given permission from rights holder :hmm:

Now ive been given permission i use .22lr for the job, cant bare the screaming if wounded it with the 12g

Ethical wise if it kills clean then i see no problem

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I was always under the impression that hares were counted as 'game' so had a season :hmm:

And under that rule only the shooting rights owners could shoot them in season

Im on tennant farm so dont have shooting rights for game, but there is a note that says in case of large numbers when causing damage they can be shot by the farmer as being a pest, if given permission from rights holder :hmm:

Now ive been given permission i use .22lr for the job, cant bare the screaming if wounded it with the 12g

Ethical wise if it kills clean then i see no problem

 

Chilli

 

Hares are game , but have no closed season .

 

You can though get into bother for selling them "out of season"

 

I will no doubt be corrected , but hares can only be sold end of august to end of March

 

This law was made when there were no such things as freezers .

 

I have always imposed a season for hares on myself and only take them september to end of feb .

 

As to taking them with and air rifle , not my thing .

 

all the best yis yp :yp:

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Hares screaming? We shoot alot of hares here in Germany, they do not scream so much as euch euch.As long as you have a good dog with you thoes that are not killed outright can be picked and dispatched cleanly with no fuss.Hares will sit so hard that occasionaly( once or twice a shoot) they are pegged by the hound and retreived. Get over it and dispatch it.

 

Jugged hare, mmmm lovely!!

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Hares screaming? We shoot alot of hares here in Germany, they do not scream so much as euch euch.As long as you have a good dog with you thoes that are not killed outright can be picked and dispatched cleanly with no fuss.Hares will sit so hard that occasionaly( once or twice a shoot) they are pegged by the hound and retreived. Get over it and dispatch it.

 

Jugged hare, mmmm lovely!!

Very few hares on my shoots here in essex and all my landowners

want them left alone, but if i did shoot them then my 22lr or .17hmr

or my .25 fac rapid @ 48 fpe would used

i would never use sub 12fpe airguns

i love to watch them , i have more than enough bunnies

to keep me busy,

regds brian

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Firstly i do shoot a fair number of Hares and have used air rifles extensively both FAC and sub 12ftlb. Do i shoot hares with them nope not even at short range with the 30ftlb rapid! Many of the hares i kill ie at least half carry no.5 or no6 lead shot from gameshooters when i butcher them and have found one recently with a .22 air arms field pellet inbeddded in it. The whole talk of getting the right shot is misleading as anyone with both the skill AND the experiance realises that things sometimes go wrong in the real world, yes even at short range quarry can move at the last fraction of a second when you release your otherwise well aimed shot etc. Indeed pick your angles with the 12 gauge and use shot size 4 or bigger is my advice, better still use a rimfire. Some might think power levels over 80ft lb is just overkill but i promise you it is not when you misjudge the trajectory and go low on the brain shot there is just so much that can go wrong unseen obstuctions, wind change on and on. Air rifles simply do not have the striking energy to tag the quarry hard enough to allow a quick follow up by dog or second shot when the bad things happen.

Is it illegal? nope but i bet if a body like the RSPCA brought a case against an air rifle guy using air power to kill hares for cruelty they might stand a better than fair chance of proving a case for cruelty and rightly so by my mind

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1st i would like to ask for what reason do you need to shoot Hares ? 2nd A sub 12ft Airrifle is not the right tool for the job and for you to ask says it all, hares do not do much if any damage so the only reason to shoot one is for the table or to sell to the game dealer, as said respect your quarry :good:

 

you have got to be having a laugh there fella

 

they do a hell of alot of damage

 

1 fella i shoot for planted 1000s of quids worth of hedge plants a couple years back to encourage other animals such as english partridges and little dicky birds,

within weeks half of the newly planted hedgerows were as good as gone, all nibbled off at the tops by the hares.

 

We shoot well over 100 hares every year on the 950acre farm, (using shotguns) and the damage is still been done

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We're talking about ethical dispatch.....

 

What is unethical about that? Is the most natural way and most selective, it gets killed or it survives for another day, no inbetween.

 

Don't go into the shooting is more humane argument, complete tosh, seen enough to make up my mind.

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And how about a FAC .22 at 30FPE under 45yards ? :hmm:

 

No i still think not, fact is 22lr subsonic is maginal if shot placement isnt as expected. Out of preference for a Hare rifle i should chose HMR, .22 WMR or Hornet though except and use a .22lr on many occasions. I have failed to get instant kills on Rabbits with 30ftlb .22 air on headshots that just failed to desroy the brain, a full grown mature hare is way bigger than a rabbit so i don't feel it adequate for the task at hand and will turn down all shots regardless of range with it

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What is unethical about that? Is the most natural way and most selective, it gets killed or it survives for another day, no inbetween.

 

Don't go into the shooting is more humane argument, complete tosh, seen enough to make up my mind.

 

Ok I won't, your mind is made up as you state.

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Nothing like running them with a dog. :rolleyes:

 

Bar the fact of the hunting with dogs act and the adrenalin that builds up during the course ruins the meat, mind you few modern Hare dogs retrieve :rolleyes:

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Firstly i do shoot a fair number of Hares and have used air rifles extensively both FAC and sub 12ftlb. Do i shoot hares with them nope not even at short range with the 30ftlb rapid! Many of the hares i kill ie at least half carry no.5 or no6 lead shot from gameshooters when i butcher them and have found one recently with a .22 air arms field pellet inbeddded in it. The whole talk of getting the right shot is misleading as anyone with both the skill AND the experiance realises that things sometimes go wrong in the real world, yes even at short range quarry can move at the last fraction of a second when you release your otherwise well aimed shot etc. Indeed pick your angles with the 12 gauge and use shot size 4 or bigger is my advice, better still use a rimfire. Some might think power levels over 80ft lb is just overkill but i promise you it is not when you misjudge the trajectory and go low on the brain shot there is just so much that can go wrong unseen obstuctions, wind change on and on. Air rifles simply do not have the striking energy to tag the quarry hard enough to allow a quick follow up by dog or second shot when the bad things happen.

Is it illegal? nope but i bet if a body like the RSPCA brought a case against an air rifle guy using air power to kill hares for cruelty they might stand a better than fair chance of proving a case for cruelty and rightly so by my mind

With all airgun quarry, the question is at what range would you bet a £1000 of your own money to hit a £1 coin sized target?

 

For me 25, maybe 30 yards with a legal limit air rifle. Same size as a rabbits, hares, woodpigeons or rats brainbox. 12fpe is plenty enough to switch off a hares lights at such ranges.

If a chap is inaccurately taking hares down with an air rifle, then quite frankly, he deserves all that the RSPCA can throw at him! Humane dispatch, or nothing really. And that goes to all quarry, whether airgun, rimfire, centerfire or shotgun; respect for quarry is paramount.

An airgun, is definitely an unsuitable weapon to take down a fox, humanely. :no:

Edited by The Duncan

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i believe he is referring to the BASC Air Rifle Code of Practice

http://www.basc.org.uk/en/codes-of-practice/air-rifles.cfm

 

which lists....

 

Principal quarry for air rifles

 

BIRDS: (covered by the general licences) crows, rooks, jackdaws, magpies, jays, woodpigeon, collared doves, feral pigeons.

MAMMALS: brown rats, grey squirrels, stoats, mink and rabbits

 

 

It is a good and useful GUIDE, but that is all it is, there is nothing in law about this.

 

12ft lb air rifles are not suitable in general terms for Hares in my view, but there are those who are perfectly capable of dealing with them using such tools, and I know 2 of them very well.

 

Too many are too quick to judge, have no experience, have some almighty holy attitude, decree they are right, and fail to accept any other view!

 

Hare and 12ft lb do not mix as far as I'm concerned, but that is simply my opinion!

 

ATB! :good:

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It is a good and useful GUIDE, but that is all it is, there is nothing in law about this.

 

12ft lb air rifles are not suitable in general terms for Hares in my view, but there are those who are perfectly capable of dealing with them using such tools, and I know 2 of them very well.

 

Too many are too quick to judge, have no experience, have some almighty holy attitude, decree they are right, and fail to accept any other view!

 

Hare and 12ft lb do not mix as far as I'm concerned, but that is simply my opinion!

 

ATB! :good:

 

Good points! :good:

 

Hares and geese seem to be regarded by some as holy quarry and draw some extreme opinions. As already noted mink are as tough if not tougher than hares. However, one is regarded as vermin the other game. That shouldn't affect the ethics.

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For crying out loud.

Go shoot the fluffing hare with your 12ftlb rifle already.

Jesus, you people think a hare has an armored skull or something?

 

If you are happy you can place a pellet on the hares head,do it. It will kill it. Period.

 

I have shot HUNDREDS of hares with sub 12ftlb rifles. Get them in the head and they DIE.

 

Tell you what, get a mate to shoot you in the hand at 40 yards and see what the pellet does. While you are down at A&E work out for yourself what it would have done to a hares head.

Edited by pabs

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For crying out loud.

Go shoot the fluffing hare with your 12ftlb rifle already.

Jesus, you people think a hare has an armored skull or something?

 

If you are happy you can place a pellet on the hares head,do it. It will kill it. Period.

 

I have shot HUNDREDS of hares with sub 12ftlb rifles. Get them in the head and they DIE.

 

Tell you what, get a mate to shoot you in the hand at 40 yards and see what the pellet does. While you are down at A&E work out for yourself what it would have done to a hares head.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

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With all airgun quarry, the question is at what range would you bet a £1000 of your own money to hit a £1 coin sized target?

 

For me 25, maybe 30 yards with a legal limit air rifle. Same size as a rabbits, hares, woodpigeons or rats brainbox. 12fpe is plenty enough to switch off a hares lights at such ranges.

If a chap is inaccurately taking hares down with an air rifle, then quite frankly, he deserves all that the RSPCA can throw at him! Humane dispatch, or nothing really. And that goes to all quarry, whether airgun, rimfire, centerfire or shotgun; respect for quarry is paramount.

An airgun, is definitely an unsuitable weapon to take down a fox, humanely. :no:

 

I quite agree, however hitting £1 coins is way different than live creatures. I have shot with some amazing air rifle shooters including a few world champs and even they mis such inanimate targets ocasionally through ranging errors or wind changes add into the mix the fact that live quarry can move a fair way in the time from trigger release to impact. 12 ft lb will kill way bigger stuff than a hare with spot on placement but the more you move of total perfect shot placement the more the power becomes an issue.

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For crying out loud.

Go shoot the fluffing hare with your 12ftlb rifle already.

Jesus, you people think a hare has an armored skull or something?

 

If you are happy you can place a pellet on the hares head,do it. It will kill it. Period.

 

I have shot HUNDREDS of hares with sub 12ftlb rifles. Get them in the head and they DIE.

 

Tell you what, get a mate to shoot you in the hand at 40 yards and see what the pellet does. While you are down at A&E work out for yourself what it would have done to a hares head.

 

funny that one :lol:

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