Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi guy's, looking for help from owners. For the first time in my life of shooting I am in the position of being able to afford one or the other. I shoot with a 25" sxs and the wife's Bettinsoli 20 bore, both light guns.I have been to Doveridge and West Midlands Shooting Ground today to have a look at the two guns mentioned. Matt at Doveridge was pushing me towards a 525 sporter saying it fit me better even though the stock was too long? (I'm a lefty, 5'8' and 14 stone)it was a left handed gun. The Beretta felt better to me though he said I was not seeing enough rib. The sporter was heavy too, would not want to lug that around for a full days walkabout. Off to Hodnet and they had the field version of both in left hand and 28" barrels, much better feel to both for me though the Browning still too long but easy and cheap to shorten. The Beretta was still sighting the same with little or no rib in view but felt nice and the field Browning version just showing a little more rib. Same money and I like both, perhaps the feel of the Beretta just edged the browning but what do the experts on here think? your help would realy be appreciated as this will be a one gun for all shooting. Tom at hodnet thought the Beretta would be the gun to go with so two different views in two hours? atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Shoot both at a pattern plate and see which fits best. You will find every shotgun mounts Diffrent but it's where the shot goes that counts not how much rib u see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi, The first question that you have to ask yourself is why you want either. What is wrong with the sbys? Why not upgrade that if you want to spend a bit. You don't say what you currently shoot and whether the two imports are new. You never know, you may just be able to get yourself a liitle bit of English. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Good point but I don't see either of them letting me do that with a new left hand gun. atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Get whichever fits you best. Both are fine guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi, The first question that you have to ask yourself is why you want either. What is wrong with the sbys? Why not upgrade that if you want to spend a bit. You don't say what you currently shoot and whether the two imports are new. You never know, you may just be able to get yourself a liitle bit of English. Cheers Hi, you are quite right asking the question. Nothing wrong with the sxs at all, its an Arrietta 25" made in Spain. Having used a o/u 20 recently I have to say things seemed a little easier and switching back and too from the sxs have left me thinking of going to one gun for all. My shooting buddy has a Rowland Whatson 12 with two sets of barrels, 28 and 30" with a scroll back action, very nice so I can see where you are coming from. atvb Paul. p.s. yes, both were new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I went to rugby guns where they had 525 and 686 lefties I took them both to barby sporting and shot both, I walked home with the 525, today I had a shot of an MK38 miroku!!!! Definately worth looking at is was a rh but so nice to shoot! It had an after Market pad on it but so smooth.... It was a grade 5 £1800 worth currently but a tidy GD3 or new grade 1 is a bit less than the 525 Iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I went to rugby guns where they had 525 and 686 lefties I took them both to barby sporting and shot both, I walked home with the 525, today I had a shot of an MK38 miroku!!!! Definately worth looking at is was a rh but so nice to shoot! It had an after Market pad on it but so smooth.... It was a grade 5 £1800 worth currently but a tidy GD3 or new grade 1 is a bit less than the 525 Iirc How heavy is a 38? I thought they were quite a chunk? the sxs is 61/2lb soaking wet lol. atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcw65 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 the mk38 is the same as a browning,they are made in the same factory in japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 the mk38 is the same as a browning,they are made in the same factory in japan. So the same gun? or very much the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I went to rugby guns where they had 525 and 686 lefties I took them both to barby sporting and shot both, I walked home with the 525, today I had a shot of an MK38 miroku!!!! Definately worth looking at is was a rh but so nice to shoot! It had an after Market pad on it but so smooth.... It was a grade 5 £1800 worth currently but a tidy GD3 or new grade 1 is a bit less than the 525 Iirc So why the 525? what height and build are you? not asking for anything too personal like!!lol atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaSV10 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi Paul, I have both the 525 sporter and the silver pigeon 1 game, although in R/H. The 525's cast is virtually streight, I have had the cast on mine changed to that more of a beretta as I was sighting down the side of the barrels other wise would have beeen a good time to meet and for you to try the 525 out. I pesonnaly don't like shortening stocks unless its a gun you intend to keep, as when you come to sell it you could well have to put it back to the origional length. I thought about selling the 525 and one coment was that you had the gun fitted, although with my 525 should hopefully not be too much of problem as the fit is simular to a beretta. As you are not to far from Tom's might be worth going back and trying again as you probally had been mounting the guns for a while trying to decide which is the best gun. Which ever gun you go for you need to feel comfortouble with and fits you, get the wrong gun and you won't be happy. When dry mounting the guns did you have a referance point to see if you mounted the gun to the same place every time? If the fit is wrong you may find you are not shooting at the the same place every time. One way I used to test the mount and aim is from a relaxed gun down position (I shoot from gun down position) and bring the gun to bear as shooting a clay onto the referance point, don't deliberatly aim, just bring the gun up natuarly (if this makes sense) and then see where the barrel is pointing. I do feel on the sporters versions of the 525's appear to be heavier than the beretta 686's. I have not compared the field versions out, with a field gun though you might want to use 21G cartridges to reduce the recoil effect on your shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaSV10 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 So the same gun? or very much the same? They are virtuall identical, the Brownings come with a ABS case where the Miruko's come in a cardboard box unless this has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) the mk38 is the same as a browning,they are made in the same factory in japan. Similar So the same gun? or very much the same? Similar but according to many the MK38 is the better gun, Miroku make the 525 to brownings spec the MK38 is made to Miroku's spec the one i shot was a Trap gun that was being turned into a sporter but a very nice gun. IIRC (Worth checking) Miroku have very little cast and can be cast to suit or you can be happy with a straight stock (you dont sound overly podgy, if your like me front row, may be an issue but if you have a centres physique should be fine) the MK38 i shot was being adapted for a lady shooter who is moving on from 20 bore via 28" 686 being tall and slim the MK38 was a good fit for her its a hefty bit of kit with 30" barrels) but handled lovely (stock had been under cut on the butt) there are loads of MK38 in various configs about (popular trap guns) Doveridge have an MK38 demo gun and WEst mids have a secomdhand FC according to GT http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/100703174420026 is the one to compare to the 525 and 686 If i was buying at the moment it would be between a GD5/6 Teague miroku and a Cynergy (I own a 525 GD1 L/H 30") which your welcome to shoot if you ever get down to south wales. Edited February 19, 2011 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi Paul, I have both the 525 sporter and the silver pigeon 1 game, although in R/H. The 525's cast is virtually streight, I have had the cast on mine changed to that more of a beretta as I was sighting down the side of the barrels other wise would have beeen a good time to meet and for you to try the 525 out. I pesonnaly don't like shortening stocks unless its a gun you intend to keep, as when you come to sell it you could well have to put it back to the origional length. I thought about selling the 525 and one coment was that you had the gun fitted, although with my 525 should hopefully not be too much of problem as the fit is simular to a beretta. As you are not to far from Tom's might be worth going back and trying again as you probally had been mounting the guns for a while trying to decide which is the best gun. Which ever gun you go for you need to feel comfortouble with and fits you, get the wrong gun and you won't be happy. When dry mounting the guns did you have a referance point to see if you mounted the gun to the same place every time? If the fit is wrong you may find you are not shooting at the the same place every time. One way I used to test the mount and aim is from a relaxed gun down position (I shoot from gun down position) and bring the gun to bear as shooting a clay onto the referance point, don't deliberatly aim, just bring the gun up natuarly (if this makes sense) and then see where the barrel is pointing. I do feel on the sporters versions of the 525's appear to be heavier than the beretta 686's. I have not compared the field versions out, with a field gun though you might want to use 21G cartridges to reduce the recoil effect on your shoulder. Hi Allan, all mounts were with the gun down. I use 30grm through the sxs so recoil should not be a problem if the gun fits ok. The reference point was Toms eye! lol. Looking forward to meeting up soon and having a chinwag! HELP! atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Similar Similar but according to many the MK38 is the better gun, Miroku make the 525 to brownings spec the MK38 is made to Miroku's spec the one i shot was a Trap gun that was being turned into a sporter but a very nice gun. IIRC (Worth checking) Miroku have very little cast and can be cast to suit or you can be happy with a straight stock (you dont sound overly podgy, if your like me front row, may be an issue but if you have a centres physique should be fine) the MK38 i shot was being adapted for a lady shooter who is moving on from 20 bore via 28" 686 being tall and slim the MK38 was a good fit for her its a hefty bit of kit with 30" barrels) but handled lovely (stock had been under cut on the butt) there are loads of MK38 in various configs about (popular trap guns) Doveridge have an MK38 demo gun and WEst mids have a secomdhand FC according to GT http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/100703174420026 is the one to compare to the 525 and 686 If i was buying at the moment it would be between a GD5/6 Teague miroku and a Cynergy (I own a 525 GD1 L/H 30") which your welcome to shoot if you ever get down to south wales. That's a fantastic offer but a little too far, I will do the same for someone local. atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) So why the 525? what height and build are you? not asking for anything too personal like!!lol atvb Paul. HI Paul, I'm 5'9" and broad (prop/hooker for most of my youth) and the wrong side of 15 stone..... Why the 525? not sure both guns were same spec, price etc 686 had more cast 525 was a bit longer and felt better? Not sure why but handling a 686/687/Silver pig today and seeing others (v popular gun) I do prefer my 525 but the MK38 was a bit special (OK it was grade 5 but that just the wood), I was told there is a L/H version (may be a special order) Boristhedog is a leftie with a 686 and Belgian/Miroku Browning IIRC so might be worth PM'ing him My parents live in Kinver and from time to time i shoot at Cross Gun Club which isnt too far from you. There is a another 525 owning leftie who shoots there (alan i think his name is very friendly chap) Edited February 19, 2011 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 HI Paul, I'm 5'9" and broad (prop/hooker for most of my youth) and the wrong side of 15 stone..... Why the 525? not sure both guns were same spec, price etc 686 had more cast 525 was a bit longer and felt better? Not sure why but handling a 686/687/Silver pig today and seeing others (v popular gun) I do prefer my 525 but the MK38 was a bit special (OK it was grade 5 but that just the wood), I was told there is a L/H version (may be a special order) Boristhedog is a leftie with a 686 and Belgian/Miroku Browning IIRC so might be worth PM'ing him My parents live in Kinver and from time to time i shoot at Cross Gun Club which isnt too far from you. There is a another 525 owning leftie who shoots there (alan i think his name is very friendly chap) Yep, thats how I felt but the other way round. The Beretta and Browning to my eye came up pretty close but for me the Beretta just............ you know how the rest goes. I feel a group meet on the way, up for it? atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaSV10 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I am stuggaling on this as I had problems with gun fit myself when I first started my gun mount was all over the place, The 525 was a good fit at the time. As my mount etc improved the 525 was no longer the best option for me and as it was too good a gun I had the cast altered a 1/2" to suit some one who is 6" 2" and a tub of lard. I did buy another gun a miruko, in which I did not listen to the gun shop hard enough, bought more to budget and not the best fit, ended up trading it in for the SP 1. My choice of guns is now most berettas, but not all as they just have the edge, If you want to try the 525, we can meet up just cautious with the amount of cast change. Its a pity I just sold the Miruko as that would of been as off the shelf and would of been the same as the 525. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 the last gun Miroku made in their own right was the 3800 series after that they were took over by browning so any of the MK models are the same as the Browning ones whith very slight differences,they all come off the same production line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I am stuggaling on this as I had problems with gun fit myself when I first started my gun mount was all over the place, The 525 was a good fit at the time. As my mount etc improved the 525 was no longer the best option for me and as it was too good a gun I had the cast altered a 1/2" to suit some one who is 6" 2" and a tub of lard. I did buy another gun a miruko, in which I did not listen to the gun shop hard enough, bought more to budget and not the best fit, ended up trading it in for the SP 1. My choice of guns is now most berettas, but not all as they just have the edge, If you want to try the 525, we can meet up just cautious with the amount of cast change. Its a pity I just sold the Miruko as that would of been as off the shelf and would of been the same as the 525. Don't struggle, you are 6'2" and I'm 5'8" ...lard we have in common! My sxs is cast on a mile because I was described as barrel chested, fat ***! The Beretta had loads of cast on which was why it felt better. I feel I'm answering my own questions now! atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Group meet sounds good, be careful your not using cast to compensate for poor or imperfect gun mount, I spent some time today with a very well respected gunsmith and stocker who also happens to be an Olympic Coach..... I felt sure my gun needed more cast and shortening. After hanging around for a couple of hours (very enjoyable hours i must say)watching him work with other shooters and having him fit me in amongst his other clients (one of whom was midway through having the MK38 fitted) he explained that my mount was off and spent some time getting me to correct it. The gun may need a little more cast and the toe under cutting a tad (it's totally stock at the moment) but he wont consider changing it until i get the mount sorted. As standard the 525 does have a vicious toe to the stock and a sharp point, unlike the soft gooey pad of the beretta it has a hard plastic plate, but for £50 that can be sorted! I mentioned i had tried a Cynergy Composite in a shop and felt it fitted better (it felt stunning!), he suggested that is because it is designed for the American market of broader chested (fat) shooters as it has a totally different stock to the 525 (even in wood), but is pretty dead straight! I also had a feel of an MK38 20 bore with straight stock (shortened and rebalanced) which again apart from feeling short i was dead on down the rib. I have been shooting clays for 18 months and had the 525 for coming up for 12. So wield to those with far more experience than me (and far better shots)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Good points made, my sxs was fitted by TR White ten years ago and I was described as barrel chested. It has a fair amount of cast on and the toe is realy pushed over, a pussy cat to shoot for me as in the past it bruised my man boobs!! Its all technical stuff but who do you believe? getting different answers from every corner??? At least with the HMR when the + is on the spot its game over lol! thats apart from when its windy but thats a whole different story!!! atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Its all technical stuff but who do you believe? getting different answers from every corner??? I have one person i trust implicitly rightly or wrongly, a gunsmith and stocker who is also an Olympic coach and in my mind a thoroughly nice chap. HE could be a total ******** but i doubt it! He is the one who got me shooting left handed (i am right handed for everything but eye issues and am very left eye dominant) and everytime i think there is an issue with the gun, fit, cast etc he explains (quite throughly and clearly) it's me not the gun thats wrong (he could just keep charging me to faff about with changing the gun/stock/drop etc but he doesnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaSV10 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Could do with coach's help on this topic, he has helped me out with gun fit in the past. Listening to Tom's advice and coaches help I can sort out guns that fit me the best, it might have taken a few hours to go through the racks. I am happy with the gun choices I now have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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