garyb Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) The last two dogs I've bought (since the ban) have been legally docked (with papers) but neither were chipped Edited March 15, 2011 by garyb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 The last two dogs I've bought (since the ban) have been legally docked (with papers) but neither were chipped Then they are not legally docked. It's a requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Even my vet agrees chipping at <5 days is barbaric! Both dogs are chipped now - it was done at their 2nd round of vac Edited March 15, 2011 by garyb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Then they are not legally docked. It's a requirement. Its only illegal to not have them chipped within 3 months, and is not a requirement for the breeder to have them microchipped, before they leave for there new homes unless they would be three months at the point of hand over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom&Dexter Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 That clears that up then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Could you tatoo a pup instead? Prevents an invasive procedure but confirms identity. I have no problem with docking at 3 days, I did it myself as a teenager and some of the pups didn't even wake up. Apache, I respect your professional opinion and the need to protect yourself, but I don't fancy chipping such a young pup. My understanding of docking has always been that the nerves in tail are not sufficiently developed that far down the tail to transmit pain to the brain, whereas you are stating the brain is not fully developed and therefore it is not painful. 5 day old pups can obviously feel pain so I can't quite square that one away in my mind and inserting a chip at the back of the neck I would be more concerned about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Ok apache I can help you out here if you are missing the correct paperwork, Mine has a declaration from the owner to absolve the vet that the same puppy was returned and advising the owner that its an offence to give false information to a veterinary surgeon in connection with giving the correct docking paperwork. From that I would suggest your backside would be covered and you wouldn't need to try chipping at that age. WGD I've seen a lot done some within hours of being born and definitely the earlier the better and in the same way it doesn't seem to be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Ok apache I can help you out here if you are missing the correct paperwork, Mine has a declaration from the owner to absolve the vet that the same puppy was returned and advising the owner that its an offence to give false information to a veterinary surgeon in connection with giving the correct docking paperwork. From that I would suggest your backside would be covered and you wouldn't need to try chipping at that age. WGD I've seen a lot done some within hours of being born and definitely the earlier the better and in the same way it doesn't seem to be a problem. Yes I have it there, BUT I still can't attest to something an owner tells me. It's legally fine in terms of the docking paperwork but not robust enough for my interpretation of the guidance from my professional body. I'm not trying to be an **** here. Lets say a farmer's sheep is hit on the road and killed. The farmer is insured for such losses, but he needs a vets certificate. If I am called out to examine the sheep I cannot write a certificate saying that it was hit by a car [unless I witnessed that happening]. All I can say is in my opinion the sheep has sustained injuries consistent with a vehicle collision. Do you see the difference? The pup reacts more to having the tail removed than the chip. The nerves are all in place in the tail it's an issue of connections in the brain that are lacking that the argument is why we don't need anaesthetic. The nerves are formed as the tail is form in the bitch's womb. I will never believe a needle is the scruff is more painful than cutting a tail or a dew claw off. IF you think it is then docking should be done under an anaesthetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 its not any old needle though its quite a substantial one, doesn't it result in higher chances of the chip moving as well? I know in a Jack Russel i had the chip moved anyway from the scruff down to half way down its belly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 its not any old needle though its quite a substantial one, doesn't it result in higher chances of the chip moving as well? I know in a Jack Russel i had the chip moved anyway from the scruff down to half way down its belly Depends on the chip. We use the one from Animalcare [identichip] because we are very confident with them. They claim an 'anti-migration coating' which seems to work well. In the early days of chips they did wander. Beware cheap microchips because they use old technology and do move. Was at a gamefair and they were offering to chip dogs £12 each or two for £20. We pay more than that for the chip alone! I know of one company that was offering to sell vets 100 chips for £100, they didn't even have a database of the numbers to re-unite lost pets. A total waste of time and money, but cheap. I have had no problems with movement in the puppies I've done and we are into the hundreds. I probably chip more puppies [<5 days] in a year than I do adult animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 I cannot sign something I don't know to be true. But in this case, you don't have to to prove it is true, you have to believe it to be true, to the best of your knowledge. There is a difference. Anyway, it's your business so your rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Then they are not legally docked. It's a requirement. NONSENSE, one was mine and it IS legally docked, had to bring a vet from Northumberland to do it as the fools round here told me it was illegal. The vet refused to chip them as he said they are far to small for such a large needle. Cost of docking and dew claws removing was £4 per pup. his ex,s where £240= £1 per mile. Another totally ridiculous law,people have been doing it for years . Edited March 15, 2011 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 NONSENSE, one was mine and it IS legally docked, had to bring a vet from Northumberland to do it as the fools round here told me it was illegal. The vet refused to chip them as he said they are far to small for such a large needle. The dog has to be chipped before 12 weeks of age and the vet chipping the dog must be prepared to sign the original certificate for that dog. If that's been done it's fine. If not they you have an incomplete certificate that is worth nothing and an illegally docked dog. The day 12 weeks and 1 day ticks over and the dog isn't chipped there is nothing you can do to make it legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 dont know many breeders who keep pups till there are 12 weeks old, if the new owners have em chipped as early as 12 week then thats fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 the vet only has to sign the confirmation of chipping part though below the section where the owner has to declare it is the same dog. Personally with a pedigree stating the dogs identity and the breeders details and the age and breed the vet should be able to be satisfied its the same dog and satisfied is all it requires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom&Dexter Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Thats cleared that up then I have my boy tattooed as well will be getting the next one done all so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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