LeeMuller Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 I am new here, an American, shooting feral pigeons, coyotes and bobcats in the off-season for fun, to protect game populations, and introduce young hunters to hunting. Pigeon shooting here is uncommon, so I am having to learn from the UK, and build my own decoys. I was looking at a W.W. Greener SxS recently in 12 gauge with 32-inch barrels that felt wonderful. It seemed perfect for pigeon work, and I figured I am more likely to get an opinion on these guns from the UK than from America, although I do know two owners, both given new Greeners for high school graduation in the 1950s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 Welcome to PW. A lot depends on personal preference. Some people find that 32" barrels are too long to handle behind a hide, but others prefer longer barrels (30" usu.) for pigeon shooting. It also depends on how tall you are. A tall person will usually find that they handle longer barrels more easily than short ones. 32" barrels on a sbs game gun are quite rare here. This length is usually found on 10 bore and 8 bore goose guns. 32" barrels are more common on o/u guns. You should also be looking at choke size too. Best thing to do is see if you can "try before you buy" The "standard" length used by me and most of my pigeon shooting mates is 30" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 Has it got a side safety or top safety? Greener traditionally had side safeties. 32 inch barrels might be a bit slow to swing in a hide (blind). With barrels that long, it might have 3 inch chambers. What proof marks does it have? Great gun if it is in good condition. I rowed for a gun that was using a Greener 16 bore to great affect on a Coot drive some years ago. He accounted for 69 Coot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 As Hammergun says, 32" barrels may be a little long to shoot with ease from a hide or 'blind', as usual though, if you like the gun, and think you'll shoot well with it, thats the most important thing to consider prior to purchase. Welcome to the site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeMuller Posted April 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 This Greener opens by top lever and has a barrel selector button on the left side at the rear of the action. It is choked F/F. I had gone to the shop to look at a Winchester 101 O/U with 26-inch barrels and had been swinging it first. It surprised me that the much longer Greener did not feel that much more muzzle-heavy. I am 6 foot and with its splinter forend, I hold a bit farther out that I do on an O/U. It sounds as though most of you shoot sitting from a blind, or perhaps sit and stand up for the shot, as in duck hunting. Almost everyone here hunts dove standing, because they come so suddenly, often singly, from one of several routes. What sort of loads and chokes are you using in your guns, and what sort of ranges? In magazines like THE FIELD, one always sees the tweedy types with SxS guns, but apparently the O/U is more common in the UK from the advertisements. I was shopping O/U guns, and thinking even of a sporting clays gun for dove, pheasant and pigeon. The only problem with those, as well as older SxSs, is the lack of magnum chambers. We have to shoot non-lead for waterfowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 The type of shooting you describe is called "flighting" here and is great fun if you get a good spot. Decoying behind a hide is when you get the birds to come to the decoys onto a crop which they feed on. Most shotgun sales are driven by the clay market which means mainly o/u and autos. Nearly all my mates still shoot sbs for live quarry. F/F choke! sounds strange. Are you sure? We are non-toxic too for waterfowl. I use 30g or 32g 6 or 7 shot (pigeon load) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooktrout Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 A 32 inch with full choke in both barrels sounds like a gun specifically intended for longer range duck or goose on estuaries. Ok for pigeon Lee if it suits you, but 28 to 30 inch with say full and three quarter choke is about the norm over here for pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted April 26, 2003 Report Share Posted April 26, 2003 Does it look like this? If it has a full pistol grip, it might indicate that it is a wildfowling gun with magnum chambers. Do the proof marks mention a weight such as one and a half ounce? American shot size number do not correspond with British ones!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeMuller Posted April 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2003 Yes, it looks just like the picture, has a pistol grip and is Full and Full choked. My father used an Ithaca like it for ducks and geese with 3-inch shells throwing #2 lead. It would fold up birds at 65 yards like most guns do at 30. While it is not the gun I was looking for, it was a nice piece with great handling. The Winchester 101 is only $700 US, so I will probably buy it and keep thinking about this Greener, which is twice the price. I like SxS guns, and prefer to find a nice used one to paying a great deal more for a new one. This Greener is not fancy, but has the feel. Thanks for the advice. As soon as I get some more decoys carved, I am going to shoot behind a dairy barn with the shorter guns I have and see how they do, because I should be able to get the birds in closer, where my son can exercise his 20-gauge autoloader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 Greener is not a 'best' English maker but a very good one. Have a look here for more information regards values. http://www.henmoreguns.fsnet.co.uk/index800.htm N.B. This is a 'half' pistol grip: This is a 'full' pistol grip: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 The gun I believe is probably a live pigeon gun, built by Greener for that very purpose when live pigeons were shot in competition for wagers involving sometimes vast amounts of money.Greener were makers of Best quality guns.If this gun is original and in good condition it would possibly realise £1500+ at auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeMuller Posted April 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 This Greener I handled settled on point of aim quickly, and I thought it would be ideal for pheasants flushing 30 yards ahead in corn. Live pigeon shooting still goes on in the USA quietly, and is really big in the Spanish countries like Cuba, Dominican Republic, Guatemala. Big O/U clays guns are seen, like Perazzi, Fabri, Beretta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 There is a book, The Greener Story, available from amazon.co.uk. It is a pound cheaper here http://www.attacc.com but amazon might be better on delivery to the US. The ISBN is 1899163549 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 On a live pigeon gun, the face on the action usually has "lugs" at either side. Also the flat section of the stock at the sides behind the action, before the chequering starts is usually hollowed out a bit. As mentioned in a previous post, Live Pigeon Shooting was where competitions were held where live pigeons were released from traps for people to shoot. (This is why clay pigeon throwers are referred to as "traps") It resulted in shooters wanting bigger and bigger loads, so gunmakers started producing guns specially for this ("live pigeon guns") with really heavy barrels. (The shooting of live quarry in this way ceased about 100 years ago and clay "pigeons" took over. Consequently, live pigeon guns are not very common now. During the Victorian period, glass balls were sometimes launched as targets.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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