MK38 Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I have been shooting for decades and I didn't know it was illegal to lamp birds. I haven't done it, and can't think it would be very sucessful , but didn't know you couldn't. I can't see why you shouldn't lamp the blasted things either. They are a very expensive pest and if they were almost wiped out to extinction so much the better as far as I am concerned. (note the "almost", I don't mind there being the odd one or two) It only goes to show the ignorance and poor attitude of some shooters if they can come out with stuff like this ! You have been shooting decades , but haven't bothered to read any laws about shooting ?.... Are you a Farmer? ...... if not why do you hate Pigeons so much ? They are a serious pest, one that needs serious control.... but also some respect surely. They provide a challenging target, are good to eat and provide us with our 'sport'.... Without Pigeons , many people would have no reason to own a gun let alone walk in the countryside with one. The fact that they are on G/L , a pest that needs control, is the only reason we can shoot them... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Why aren't you allowed to lamp them? I now know that is what the law says, but why does it say it? In my opinion they should be killed by any humane method possible the same as rats mice etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Why aren't you allowed to lamp them? I now know that is what the law says, but why does it say it? In my opinion they should be killed by any humane method possible the same as rats mice etc. The idea behind it is to give them a sporting chance, what do you think would happen if lamping pigeons at night while they were sleeping was allowed under the general licence? you do the maths, yes they are a pest but they do not deserve to be exterminated completely, also do you really think they want to open the floodgates for every numpty with a shotgun or air rifle going out at night shooting into the air??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I don't want to see them exterminated, as I said in an earlier post on this thread, but fail to see why they need a sporting chance any more than a rat, mouse etc. does. Nor do I really see much difference in shooting into the air in daylight or at night with a shotgun or air rifle. OK, there maybe some difference but I doubt that was the real reason. A quick Google tells me there were 8.2 million of them (2008) and on the increase (665% increase based purely on garden surveys but increasing everywhere in general) and possibly caused £50million damage this winter. They really are a very serious economic pest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsm1968 Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I'm all in favour of testing prior to approving SGC's for hunting purposes From time to time these sorts of things get posted and it only strengthens my thoughts about wannabe hunters having to take a test before they ever get near a gun. This may help, but I don't believe a forced test will sort out the people who knowingly carry out illegal activities.Or change the ethics of those who don't have a problem with what they are doing. I also think the added cost of a DSC "type" course would put new shooters off or result in more law breaking. It has been my experience abroad that the key lies with the land owners. Once they are educated on what is lawfull and ethical, and demand that as minimum standard, the shooters will have to comply or loose the permision to one who will. This is where doing a course by choice would prove willingness. If the land owner is unaware of what the law requires or is prepared to turn a blind eye to what goes on, He'll have plenty of uneducated shooters keen to shoot his land. The OP now knows where he went wrong - so a good result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) I also think the added cost of a DSC "type" course would put new shooters off or result in more law breaking. By no means would I say that a DSC style test should be administered. However, similarly to a driving theory test, a selection of 20 multiple choice questions out of a pool of 500 questions should be handed to each applicant when the FEO comes round and the applicant is asked to complete it within 15 minutes. (Perfect timing for the FEO to finish up their report after your interview) So it might be a case that you go online and learn all the answers, but at least you'll have studied towards it and subsequently learn what's right and what's wrong. Edited April 27, 2011 by Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK38 Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I don't want to see them exterminated, as I said in an earlier post on this thread, but fail to see why they need a sporting chance any more than a rat, mouse etc. does. Nor do I really see much difference in shooting into the air in daylight or at night with a shotgun or air rifle. OK, there maybe some difference but I doubt that was the real reason. A quick Google tells me there were 8.2 million of them (2008) and on the increase (665% increase based purely on garden surveys but increasing everywhere in general) and possibly caused £50million damage this winter. They really are a very serious economic pest. No one can doubt that they are a very successfull pest, able to adapt to farming changes that have helped them breed and survive through hard winters.... but as far as i know Woodpigeon don't spread any diseases unlike ferals so i can't see them in the same light as rats or mice. But my main problem with your stance is, why do you want them dead by any means? ..... You shoot them presumably and i cant see why you would if you didn't get enjoyment from it.. Surely the more about, the more shooting you will get.... i just can't see nearly exterminating them all as being in your or any shooters best interest If you had your way and severly culled their numbers, then they would come off the G/L and the reason you can go out with a gun would be seriously limited. I can't believe you taken on the expense of shooting, to go on a crusade to exterminate them..... all just to help the economy out? If you get no pleasure from shooting them on the wing over crops..... perhaps you should take up something else.... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Billy I have always thought along the same lines, it wouldn't be to restrictive - nice and simple, but enough to force people into obtaining a base of knowledge. As for the landowner idea earlier, that would not work, when I first started fac shooting (10/15 years ago) I had loads of permission, however most farmers didn't want the police nosing around checking land, paranoid chaps, so to put the onus on them would lose people a lot of ground. The other thing us, if I had a £1 for every farmer that has asked me to shoot a certain tb linked animal I would be rich, I don't and wouldn't,but we have all been asked I bet, so they really wouldnt give a fig. The op made a mistake - he asked , he knows, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I class myself as a farmer, not a shooter. I only shoot rabbits and pigeons as they are a pest, I don't shoot anything else other than a few magpies and squirrels. I don't take days off to go and have a bit of fun shooting at things, I drag myself off around the fields after work to try and get rid of a few and attempt to scare the rest away (wishful thinking) Exterminating them would certainly help my economy to the tune of many thousands of pounds a year. Rabbits and pigeons if left uncontrolled cost me somewhere around £10k/year in damage to crops, that wouldn't be £10k of profit but the reduction in sale value of the crops. Don't be thinking I am a vast landowner that is minted, my income last year was dismal, but that's a different issue. I don't want anything exterminated and I very much doubt any farmer does, but I still don't see why a pest that causes such economic damage as pigeons should be afforded a sporting chance. Anyway, I've said my piece and will stop at that rather than fuelling an internet argument (not saying anybody is wrong, just that I have a different view maybe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK38 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 39TDS, As a Farmer/smallholder you will, of course, have a different view to most.... your personal livelyhood is at stake , so now i understand your hardline approach and fully accept it, and i feel very silly for jumping on you ... i appollogise. The majority of us shoot for pleasure and what causes you to have a problem is our sport/pastime.... wether people class it as sport or crop protection. I wish you well on controling the pests on your crops. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Its not really a debatable point, its against the law and that really closes the issue, unless you want to start writing to your MP. If you are caught doing it I suspect that you will lose your licence and saying that the landowner gave you permission wouldn't help, but it would almost certainly ensure he gets prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caeser Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm a bit disappointed with a few of the replies. The guy only asked a question, he didn't know the answer, so instead of people being helpful and just telling him that you can't do that, (which is ideally what the forum should be about, being helpful) a few people slate the poor fellow. There are a lot of newcomers to the sport on here. Learning from all the experienced people on here must be of great benefit to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) I'm a bit disappointed with a few of the replies. The guy only asked a question, he didn't know the answer, so instead of people being helpful and just telling him that you can't do that, (which is ideally what the forum should be about, being helpful) a few people slate the poor fellow. There are a lot of newcomers to the sport on here. Learning from all the experienced people on here must be of great benefit to them. Whilst I agree with what you're saying to a certain degree, what anyone needs to know is that there are certain things you must know before you go out to shoot a living animal. I have said it quite a few times now; if the general licence isn't burned into your mind, you shouldn't bother going out. Edited April 28, 2011 by Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm a bit disappointed with a few of the replies. The guy only asked a question, he didn't know the answer, so instead of people being helpful and just telling him that you can't do that, (which is ideally what the forum should be about, being helpful) a few people slate the poor fellow. There are a lot of newcomers to the sport on here. Learning from all the experienced people on here must be of great benefit to them. And i agree :good: He asked the question He got the answer im sure he will stay away from lamping pigeons Far too many here with negative comments/ attitudes,we should be sticking together over our sport,just remember this is a open forum Think on chaps BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caeser Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Whilst I agree with what you're saying to a certain degree, what anyone needs to know is that there are certain things you must know before you go out to shoot a living animal. I have said it quite a few times now; if the general licence isn't burned into your mind, you shouldn't bother going out. I reckon that most newcomers will not even know what the General License is, or ever heard of it. So asking questions ,is possibly one of the best ways to learn, and be pointed in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian750 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Must admit I'm with Billy on this one, the onus is on the shooter to know what he can and can't shoot and if any other restrictions apply to whatever quarry is being sought. However, I feel for the guy, it sounds like he has made an honest mistake, one that he has stated he will not do again, but that would not help him if he was caught lamping pigeons and hopefully the GL will be read and re-read before he goes out again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I reckon that most newcomers will not even know what the General License is, or ever heard of it. So asking questions ,is possibly one of the best ways to learn, and be pointed in the right direction. I agree. So who's fault is it, that a newcomer doesn't know what the GL is? My opinion is its the FEO not making new applicants aware of it at the interview stage of the application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) read the general licence you can find it on the BASC website which has loads of usefull stuff so if you havent looked at their website look at it and consider joining one of the organisations (CA or BASC or their are some others) then you can email then any questions you have and you will get a answer, and if your still unsure PW it! alway good to be on the right side of the law.. I have been told on two occasions to revise my knowledge on it, taking the safe shots test, and when the person came for the first visit, asked if i knew what quarry it was suitable for, general licence, and basic safety, im astounded that you didnt know but now you do! Edited April 29, 2011 by demonwolf444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 From time to time these sorts of things get posted and it only strengthens my thoughts about wannabe hunters having to take a test before they ever get near a gun. I'm not advocating campaigning for any such moves as we (the shooting community) have enough problems in todays PC world (and I don't mean the place one buys their laptops! )but it beggars belief that so many have no idea about the legal aspects of gun ownership and very little idea about quarry ID. They can and do spoil it for the vast majority. On a related note; poaching/trespassing with a gun is a CRIMINAL offence punishable by (possible) prison sentences plus the confiscation of any guns and the revokation of any licences held. Why would any responsible/licenced person chance it? Many do! I dont know about having to take a test before getting near a gun . I think some should take a test before coming on this forum . What with posting pictures of shot racing pigeons and lamping pigeons ,what next?. Deer shot with a grenade launcher.? Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I`m certainly not advocating tests, but you have to marvel at the internet generation,be they young or old,who have the most incredible amount of information available quite literally at their fingertips and with no physical effort, and yet are too idle,ignorant or disinterested to access it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I`m certainly not advocating tests, but you have to marvel at the internet generation,be they young or old,who have the most incredible amount of information available quite literally at their fingertips and with no physical effort, and yet are too idle,ignorant or disinterested to access it. Yes i agree in part - but by being on the internet He found PW to ask? Perhaps the GL should be issued in a booklet with the fac or sgc? Thinking back - I can not remember any mention of it during my interview many moons ago, perhaps that is the time to bring it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 There seems to be a presumption by some that the GL ought to be brought to the attention of shooters as a matter of course. Does that apply to everything? Who knows the laws about seatbelts and young people? What is the minimum size for a trout should you wish to keep one you caught? How many bitches of a breeding age can you keep without authority? Do hares have a close season? It is the onus on each one of us to make sure that we don't break the law. Ignorance is no defence. If you go shooting you should know the relevant legislation. Simple as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) I dont know about having to take a test before getting near a gun . I think some should take a test before coming on this forum . What with posting pictures of shot racing pigeons and lamping pigeons ,what next?. Deer shot with a Harnser . Or a red squirrel with a blowdart :yp: Edited April 30, 2011 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) It is the onus on each one of us to make sure that we don't break the law. Ignorance is no defence. If you go shooting you should know the relevant legislation. Simple as. That's absolutely spot on. As has been mentioned already, with the amount of information available at the click of a button these days there really is no excuse to NOT know all relevant rules, regulations and laws covering gun ownership/use BEFORE going out with your gun. Edited April 30, 2011 by poontang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verminator 66 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Ferrals are the exception. It's illegal to shoot these as well you need a special license for shooting them at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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