artschool Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 I've been here a while and I dont see the point in beating around the bush - Its my opinion. I am an FAC holder and have a semi auto .22. I just dont see the point in having 50 round mags and 'shorty' military style weapons (that arnt accurate)for the reasons that most put them down for..... I was un aware of 'mini rifle'but will look into it - But I bet there are a few on here who have the MP5 look alike .22lr purely beacuase it looks good.... Purely because it looks good? Let's ban Aston martins right now they exceed the speed limit and look far too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Its nothing to do with giving men in grey, or other colour suits for that matter, the idea. Its to do with the fact that I (YES I ) cannot see a 'reasonable cause' for someone to have a leathal weapon capable of discharging 50 rounds without the need for some sort of intervention from the 'hopefully' sensible person that is firing it..... are you related to redgum? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Already did that thank you, I have served my country.... have you That is where I received some of the best firearms training in the world! And..... perhaps you should come down to Bisley and air your concerns with the thousands of competitors competing at the Pheonix, the biggest competition on the target shooting calendar.. as you are obviously FAR more sensible and worthy of an FAC than any of them!.... that is what you are now saying isn't it I guess you basically think (from your previous post - of which this reply relates) that a .22lr is basically and incapable round (incapable of killing at short range that is)? just to clarifiy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Purely because it looks good? Let's ban Aston martins right now they exceed the speed limit and look far too good. Did you just ask a five year old to come up with that argument??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Mate if only you knew.... I guess I am the only one worried that some day some other person (like Ryan, Bird etc) with a legitimate reason for owning firearms could go on the rampage and kill numerous innocent individuals (and my point was the amount of carnage one could cause with such weapons). Buy Hey who gives a **** really we are all sensible people arnt we...... You could at least have tried to put together a reasoned argument... Still it is Friday. On the news today a man was convicted of putting 14 people in hospital by driving through them outside a night club. If he'd had a Hummer.... oh god the humanity !! :o You think the tool is important? No, it's the person who is dangerous. You're entitled to express your opinion but you are no more right or of value than anyone else here. You certainly have no right to judge other members. If black guns scare you more than wood ones try another pastime. You've ended any credibility here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 You could at least have tried to put together a reasoned argument... Still it is Friday. On the news today a man was convicted of putting 14 people in hospital by driving through them outside a night club. If he'd had a Hummer.... oh god the humanity !! :o You think the tool is important? No, it's the person who is dangerous. You're entitled to express your opinion but you are no more right or of value than anyone else here. You certainly have no right to judge other members. If black guns scare you more than wood ones try another pastime. You've ended any credibility here. *** you imbecile - guns are lethal weapons by definition …. cars are not. Its hard being a human in the country…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Hungerford - 14 Dead Dublain - 16 children and a teacher Whitehaven - 12 dead Isolated incdents - People being stabbed resulting in kitchen knife - *** are you on. My OP was about the potential for the currently authorised weaponry/assessories to cause caos but now you mention it........... Yep,isolated incidents a decade apart.If their deaths weigh so heavily on you then i suggest you get rid of your own rifle to set an example.Unless pest control is your sole occupation you have no genuine need for a gun and even if you did you could always choose another career,but you're the same as every other gun owner-you enjoy shooting.Now whether thats someone who has an AR15 semiauto rimfire for target shooting or a deer stalker-we do it because we want to. Like i said previously,gun control is like a dripping tap-all our rights to own firearms will slowly be dripped away until you too will have to give up your guns.Drip drip drip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Can I just summarise my take of your world view? Most people on pigeon watch are not fit to have firearms. Most people generally are not fit to be trusted with firearms. One in four of us is touch and go mentally unstable and ready to rampage at any time, having a magazine above some arbitrary capacity is the likely tipping point. Any gun, which you personally don't see a need for should be banned. Guns you don't like the look of should be banned. Target shooting is not a valid reason to own a gun. Honestly mate, have you thought of taking up golf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Yep,isolated incidents a decade apart.If their deaths weigh so heavily on you then i suggest you get rid of your own rifle to set an example.Unless pest control is your sole occupation you have no genuine need for a gun and even if you did you could always choose another career,but you're the same as every other gun owner-you enjoy shooting.Now whether thats someone who has an AR15 semiauto rimfire for target shooting or a deer stalker-we do it because we want to. Like i said previously,gun control is like a dripping tap-all our rights to own firearms will slowly be dripped away until you too will have to give up your guns.Drip drip drip... Yadda yadda yaddda - I own a firearm for the purposes that I am certificated to own it. Owning an MP5 copy for 'pest control' to me is just ludicrous but hey whatever we all live in the same country so I guess we are all entitled to own the maximum that law provides... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Can I just summarise my take of your world view? Most people on pigeon watch are not fit to have firearms. Most people generally are not fit to be trusted with firearms. One in four of us is touch and go mentally unstable and ready to rampage at any time, having a magazine above some arbitrary capacity is the likely tipping point. Any gun, which you personally don't see a need for should be banned. Guns you don't like the look of should be banned. Target shooting is not a valid reason to own a gun. Honestly mate, have you thought of taking up golf? NO - you cant ... Obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Did you just ask a five year old to come up with that argument??? No I just copied your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Hello Newsportshooter I think I understand what you are getting at and I also feel a bit uncomfortable about the "boys toys" element of some of these rambo look alike guns. It does seem strange that we have to justify a requirement for firearms and a common reason is to control vermin and yet these guns are not particularly well suited to that task. It is also a shame that other posters have not replied in a reasonable manner to explain to you, genuinely and sincerely, why they feel that type of gun is useful, even if it is so they can play Rambo. Nothing wrong with that. I used to be a bit uncomfortable about paintballing too. Then one day my son and his friends persuaded me to have a go. A brilliant day out, even as a fat unfit almost 60 year old I thoroughly enjoyed it. Firing 50 round magazines, paintballing, shooting handguns.... playing violent computer games.... whatever.... It can be FUN and harmless fun at that. There will be the odd nutter, hopefully in a social environment the nutter will be spotted and helped or controlled. From time to time someone will lose control and innocent people will get hurt but that is the consequence of being a human being. I do not want to see any greater gun control than we have now. If people enjoy firing such guns then they should be free to do so, as others have said, different people enjoy different shooting activities. Banning pistols was a disgrace. I do not believe there is any link between legal gun ownership and the dreadful killings that you cited. From time to time people will crack up due to the pressures of life today. There is no way to stop a deranged individual from going on a killing spree whether it is by crashing a vehicle, blowing up a building or using a knife. Life carries risk and if you try and eliminate risk you take away what makes us human. Sad though it may be, a balance has to be struck and some people will suffer as a consequence of allowing other people, including themselves, freedom. By chipping away at our freedoms you are chipping away at the very soul of humanity. Look at the bigger picture and not the sensationalised headlines. The greatest and most damaging statement frequently used is "If it saves just one life...." and the actions of misguided individuals who try to follow that ethos have probably caused more death and misery than we shall ever realise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 I guess you basically think (from your previous post - of which this reply relates) that a .22lr is basically and incapable round (incapable of killing at short range that is)? just to clarifiy? No... I certainly do not think it is an incapable round... it is certainly capable of killing at short range, although you may have to pull the trigger a few times to get the desired result This is a pointless thread, you are simply trolling here.... you do not have a valid argument because it doesn't matter that it is 50 rds in a magazine or 10... switching magazines takes no time at all... You are also talking about a minority interest so statistically, the chances of a FAC holder going off the rails who owns one of these is quite slim... in your argument, there would have to be som quite lengthy pre-meditation... Ohh, think I'll go on a quick rampage... Hang on, need to get the variation in first, then go buy my 22 with 50rd clip.... Do you see how silly this sounds If I was pre-meditating a murderous psycho rampage I could think of far better tools for the job than a 22 with hi capacity clip!! You are entitled to your opinion... one of the best things about PW is that it is a very 'cross-discipline' forum even though it has 'pigeon' in its title... you have people on here who are dedicated pigeon shooter, they do nothing else, you have clay busters, you have deer stalkers (of which I am one,)you have professional pest controllers, you have target shooter (again, of which I am one,) you even have the odd chap who shoots for Great Britain lurking around.... The one thing we have in common is our love of shooting... we are supportive of each others sport, just because a certain aspects of it do not interest us does not cause us to criticize it (or the equipment required to enjoy it!) Your kind of attitude however is insideous, it is exactly the kind of attitude that gives shooting a bad name because you can see no good in anything that doesn't involve what you do, so you just fuel the fire and fan the flames.... If you cannot see that there are other aspects of shooting other than those you are involved in then you are hideously blinkered and you really should educate yourself before you come on here ranting about equipment that has been available to us for many many years, to be used in a discipline you hadn't heard of... Perhaps a better approach, before you climbed up to stand on your pedestal to vilify the shooting community, would have been to post a simple question.... "what would anyone use a 50 round magazine in a military style 22 sa rifle for?" You probably would have got some helpful answers to that.... As someone has already stated, perhaps you are in the wrong forum if you are so 'anti' anything you don't use but again, if it came down to it, do you really NEED your guns or FAC at all I would be very surprised if the HONEST answer was 'yes!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ostrea Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Over twenty years ago before M Ryan ruined many lives and and started the change to the firearms law in the UK, i used to go to the local gun shop on a Saturday to choose which firearm i would want to shoot on a Sunday at a local army range and the gun shop owner would bring the firearm plus ammo along on a Sunday we would have a fantastic time AK47 OR A .44 Handgun, tracer rounds, eight shot Mossburg pump action 24 inch rifled barrel anything that was in the gun shop at the time it was great fun, does not mean i would want to buy any of these weapons myself but each to their own. Fac covers many forms of shooting sport so we should all support each other with one aim of enjoying our sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Yadda yadda yaddda - I own a firearm for the purposes that I am certificated to own it. Owning an MP5 copy for 'pest control' to me is just ludicrous but hey whatever we all live in the same country so I guess we are all entitled to own the maximum that law provides... How many more times do we need to write this before it sinks in? People tend not to buy MP5 copies for pest control, they tend to buy them for certain types of target shooting! You still haven't answered my question... have you served? have you had the benefit of formal firearms training in the forces? are you a safe shooter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 I've been here a while and I dont see the point in beating around the bush - Its my opinion. I am an FAC holder and have a semi auto .22. I just dont see the point in having 50 round mags and 'shorty' military style weapons (that arnt accurate)for the reasons that most put them down for..... I was un aware of 'mini rifle'but will look into it - But I bet there are a few on here who have the MP5 look alike .22lr purely beacuase it looks good.... I have read this with interest and have to agree with the many comments that have been made with reference to you being an anti. Your statement above about the said weapons, sort of makes me wonder if you have made a gamble by having your ill-informed rant, thinking that you might get us to agree with you, without actually knowing what you are talking about. You have also mentioned the fact that you think they are not accurate, how do you know this? I think if you had researched the subject in a bit more detail you probably would not have made your OP in such a negative manner and would possibly have asked others what they thought before giving us all the impression that you are just a tool. I don’t own any of these guns and I don’t want to, but I know a few who do and others who would like to. I think that if they enjoy using them and do so within the law, then why not? They have met the criteria required to be deemed as competent and trust worthy to own firearms and have the Police issued FAC to say so. Shooters do not need other shooters like you (if indeed you are a shooter) to start stupid threads which bring any part of our sport down and feeds your pals (the anti’s) with another round to put in their mega capacity magazine of reasons to ban the gun. I think you should just wind your neck in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 No... I certainly do not think it is an incapable round... it is certainly capable of killing at short range, although you may have to pull the trigger a few times to get the desired result This is a pointless thread, you are simply trolling here.... you do not have a valid argument because it doesn't matter that it is 50 rds in a magazine or 10... switching magazines takes no time at all... You are also talking about a minority interest so statistically, the chances of a FAC holder going off the rails who owns one of these is quite slim... in your argument, there would have to be som quite lengthy pre-meditation... Ohh, think I'll go on a quick rampage... Hang on, need to get the variation in first, then go buy my 22 with 50rd clip.... Do you see how silly this sounds If I was pre-meditating a murderous psycho rampage I could think of far better tools for the job than a 22 with hi capacity clip!! You are entitled to your opinion... one of the best things about PW is that it is a very 'cross-discipline' forum even though it has 'pigeon' in its title... you have people on here who are dedicated pigeon shooter, they do nothing else, you have clay busters, you have deer stalkers (of which I am one,)you have professional pest controllers, you have target shooter (again, of which I am one,) you even have the odd chap who shoots for Great Britain lurking around.... The one thing we have in common is our love of shooting... we are supportive of each others sport, just because a certain aspects of it do not interest us does not cause us to criticize it (or the equipment required to enjoy it!) Your kind of attitude however is insideous, it is exactly the kind of attitude that gives shooting a bad name because you can see no good in anything that doesn't involve what you do, so you just fuel the fire and fan the flames.... If you cannot see that there are other aspects of shooting other than those you are involved in then you are hideously blinkered and you really should educate yourself before you come on here ranting about equipment that has been available to us for many many years, to be used in a discipline you hadn't heard of... Perhaps a better approach, before you climbed up to stand on your pedestal to vilify the shooting community, would have been to post a simple question.... "what would anyone use a 50 round magazine in a military style 22 sa rifle for?" You probably would have got some helpful answers to that.... As someone has already stated, perhaps you are in the wrong forum if you are so 'anti' anything you don't use but again, if it came down to it, do you really NEED your guns or FAC at all I would be very surprised if the HONEST answer was 'yes!' Your quite right in your last point and I was pondering the finer points of how I should pose the question as I tried to edit my OP. However I posted what I did and couldn’t change my OP titile and sub Title. I am in no way 'Trolling' as you suggest I was trying to gauge opinion of the community in which I have frequented for some time. As for a valid argument, as a shooter and by your own admission a military and 'target' shooter I assume as I you are of a reasonable proficiency as a marksman you would agree that a .22lr is a round more than capable of killing a human. The reason I say that is the original reason for this post, if one is capable of killing with one round what is he capable of with a 50 round mag………… My issue was that although we are, by majority a reasonable bunch there is of course a potential for anyone who has access to firearms to act in irrational ways and having access to firearms which have the potential to discharge, in reality in excess of 10 rounds, there is scope for the irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcass23 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Hello Newsportshooter I think I understand what you are getting at and I also feel a bit uncomfortable about the "boys toys" element of some of these rambo look alike guns. It does seem strange that we have to justify a requirement for firearms and a common reason is to control vermin and yet these guns are not particularly well suited to that task. It is also a shame that other posters have not replied in a reasonable manner to explain to you, genuinely and sincerely, why they feel that type of gun is useful, even if it is so they can play Rambo. Nothing wrong with that. I used to be a bit uncomfortable about paintballing too. Then one day my son and his friends persuaded me to have a go. A brilliant day out, even as a fat unfit almost 60 year old I thoroughly enjoyed it. Firing 50 round magazines, paintballing, shooting handguns.... playing violent computer games.... whatever.... It can be FUN and harmless fun at that. There will be the odd nutter, hopefully in a social environment the nutter will be spotted and helped or controlled. From time to time someone will lose control and innocent people will get hurt but that is the consequence of being a human being. I do not want to see any greater gun control than we have now. If people enjoy firing such guns then they should be free to do so, as others have said, different people enjoy different shooting activities. Banning pistols was a disgrace. I do not believe there is any link between legal gun ownership and the dreadful killings that you cited. From time to time people will crack up due to the pressures of life today. There is no way to stop a deranged individual from going on a killing spree whether it is by crashing a vehicle, blowing up a building or using a knife. Life carries risk and if you try and eliminate risk you take away what makes us human. Sad though it may be, a balance has to be struck and some people will suffer as a consequence of allowing other people, including themselves, freedom. By chipping away at our freedoms you are chipping away at the very soul of humanity. Look at the bigger picture and not the sensationalised headlines. The greatest and most damaging statement frequently used is "If it saves just one life...." and the actions of misguided individuals who try to follow that ethos have probably caused more death and misery than we shall ever realise. Couldnt have said it better myself! Honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 I have read this with interest and have to agree with the many comments that have been made with reference to you being an anti. Your statement above about the said weapons, sort of makes me wonder if you have made a gamble by having your ill-informed rant, thinking that you might get us to agree with you, without actually knowing what you are talking about. You have also mentioned the fact that you think they are not accurate, how do you know this? I think if you had researched the subject in a bit more detail you probably would not have made your OP in such a negative manner and would possibly have asked others what they thought before giving us all the impression that you are just a tool. I don’t own any of these guns and I don’t want to, but I know a few who do and others who would like to. I think that if they enjoy using them and do so within the law, then why not? They have met the criteria required to be deemed as competent and trust worthy to own firearms and have the Police issued FAC to say so. Shooters do not need other shooters like you (if indeed you are a shooter) to start stupid threads which bring any part of our sport down and feeds your pals (the anti’s) with another round to put in their mega capacity magazine of reasons to ban the gun. I think you should just wind your neck in. You obviously fall within the realms of "another" **** wit. I am well aware of the sub accuracy of these weapons (as per reality and most very publicised literature). And therefore I believe I’m not a 'Tool' as you proclaim. Oh and I am (not that you would believe it) a bona bifda FAC owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 (edited) Your quite right in your last point and I was pondering the finer points of how I should pose the question as I tried to edit my OP. However I posted what I did and couldn’t change my OP titile and sub Title. I am in no way 'Trolling' as you suggest I was trying to gauge opinion of the community in which I have frequented for some time. As for a valid argument, as a shooter and by your own admission a military and 'target' shooter I assume as I you are of a reasonable proficiency as a marksman you would agree that a .22lr is a round more than capable of killing a human. The reason I say that is the original reason for this post, if one is capable of killing with one round what is he capable of with a 50 round mag………… My issue was that although we are, by majority a reasonable bunch there is of course a potential for anyone who has access to firearms to act in irrational ways and having access to firearms which have the potential to discharge, in reality in excess of 10 rounds, there is scope for the irrational. Firstly, as I have tried to say previously, whilst a .22 is CAPABLE of killing at short range I think the chances of actually managing to kill with a single shot from a 22 are actually quite remote.. Therefore a 50 round magazine in the hands of a madman would not equate to 50 dead people as you seem to imply!... 50 rounds of pretty much any CF round and then, quite probably... our boys seem to do quite well with the old 223 out in Afghanistan for instance.. Secondly, if you actually sit back and look at the safety record of legitimately owned firearms (including the BIG THREE incidents.) In the grand scheme of things, they pose very little risk at all.. 45 people were killed between the big 3 incidents in living memory... unnecessary, tragic deaths and my heart still goes out to the victims and their families... However, let's compare numbers... approx 219 people are killed EACH YEAR in horse related incidents approx 150 people are killed EACH YEAR in knife attacks Of course, these figures pale into insignificance against the 90,000 who die EACH YEAR through smoking or the 15,000 that die from alcohol related diseases EACH YEAR The Roads claim 3,000 lives EVERY YEAR I could go on... and on... Please don't come back with the argument that 'if it only saves one life....' If that's the case, tell it to the family of the woman killed when hit by a golf ball a few years ago... If we go down that road, we need to ban ANYTHING that has the potential to take one life... which is... just about anything! I duly note your concerns and feel very strongly that they should be directed elsewhere, as should your arguments and energy... you, just like every other member of the UK public, have a far greater chance (statistically) of having your life ended by a malfunctioning egg beater in the kitchen than by a legitimate FAC holder... Edited May 20, 2011 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 You obviously fall within the realms of "another" **** wit. I am well aware of the sub accuracy of these weapons (as per reality and most very publicised literature). And therefore I believe I’m not a 'Tool' as you proclaim. Oh and I am (not that you would believe it) a bona bifda FAC owner. You are right, when I think about it, I am a halfwit for getting involved in this thread. You are right, I don't believe that you have an FAC. You are right, I should not have proclaimed you as a tool, I apologise for that. However you do claim that these weapons are not accurate and you state "I am well aware of the sub accuracy of these weapons". I have fired some of these weapons and find them reasonably accurate up to the normal ranges for the calibre, surely shooters would not take part in comps if they were not able to gain a decent score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 NO - you cant ... Obviously Wow. Even trolling you have no insight whatsoever. Every word you say reflects on you and you can't grasp even that. Keep spouting, the consequences are clearly going to come as a total surprise :lol: I'm getting some popcorn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Scholl Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 I hate to be a kill joy but is no one else even slightly concerned that under current legislation FAC holders are allowed to own these new fantangled military style semi auto weapons (in .22lr)with hi capacity magazines. I mean come on what realistic purpose can anyone have for owning an MP5 or M4 replica in .22lr with a 50 round drum magazine, other than to fulfil some militaristic fantasy. The accuracy, other than short range, is rubbish so that rules out consistency in regard to vermin shooting and lets face it when was the last time you saw more than 15 rabbits to shoot at in one area (thus the 50 round mag is not necessary). It strikes me as insane considering the prohibition on handguns, that a person can legally own such weapons, with no real necessity, and potentially go nuts with such potential. I totally agree with the necessity for semi-auto weapons in .22 rim fire (as they are often very capable tools when dealing with vermin) and the need for a removable magazine, say a round deal like the 10/22 standard. I just don’t see the need for the 50 round mags or these posy weapons that look like military kit but tend to give the impression to buyers that they are 'not as lethal' when they clearly are just as deadly at the short ranges that nutters tend to shoot at. I Just think its giving way to maximising the potential of the potential nutter. No doubt folk on here are gonna chastise me for giving this up to the antis but I really feel this is an issue - and I think it would benefit us all if the firearm owning community could take a proactive stance and actually enlighten government about such matters - lets face it 1 in 4 is gonna suffer mental health issues at some point in their lives and whilst most of us, if faced with such issues would happily relinquish ownership of our arms, some would do differently..... The only thing i'm worried about are morons like you who will sell out everyone else in some false hope that they won't come after your PC looking guns. Here are my semi-automatic 5.56 AR-15's. Just cause I know it'll **** you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 A few blokes I know have ''military style'' rimfires. They use them purely for the fun factor. I must admit it doesn't really appeal to me, but then neither does train spotting. They certainly dont use them for hunting. How many of you would turn down a go on one of these if it was offered . . . . . not many Id bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 We had all these sort of discussions back in the days before the handgun ban, only in those days there weren't the forums like this to air them publically. Back then we were moaning about the Rambo wannabes acting out their fantasies with 9mm 16 shot pistols. Dressed up in all sorts of combat clothes Real plonkers many of them, living in a dream world but they spent money and the dealers were only too happy to supply the hardware. And the clubs sprung up to cater for them. Look how that all ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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