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only getting 9.5 out of my 22 harrier x .

 

i have never cleaned the barrel ....shoots fine and still drops bunnies at 35 yards but was shocked to see low figures after i chrono d it ....

 

ive used many rifles in my time in the forces i.e. the sa80 can have 900 rounds put though it before cleaning and it wont effect the weapon ballistics......so if i havent cleaned my 22 airrifle with the power only at sub 12 lbs would not cleaning the barrel be causing the rifle to shot 9.5 lbs with lead build up ....

 

hope that dozny sound to stupid a question lol..........cheers

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hi guys im only getting 9.5 out of my 22 harrier x ive had that rifle for a couple of years and never pulled through the barrel lol

 

shoots fine and still drops rabbits at 35 yards wasnt until i chrono d it and was shocked to see the figures .

 

soz for this q but whats the best way to get the barrel cleaned ,being a pcp how do you get the barrel cleaned ..rod or pull through lol

 

maybe thats whats causing the low readings on the chrono ................

napier power cleaning felts(felt pellets) about a £5 for 80 odd,last ages ,bit tight fit in barrel(there meant to be )so allows for expansion on firing and only clean about every 2-300 shots,other wise a trip to gunsmiths im afraid ,could be your seals wearing....me personally if it still does the bizz then just clean the barrel and leave it alone (old cliche..if it aint broke ,dont fix it ) :good: :good:

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napier power cleaning felts(felt pellets) about a £5 for 80 odd,last ages ,bit tight fit in barrel(there meant to be )so allows for expansion on firing and only clean about every 2-300 shots,other wise a trip to gunsmiths im afraid ,could be your seals wearing....me personally if it still does the bizz then just clean the barrel and leave it alone (old cliche..if it aint broke ,dont fix it ) :good: :good:

 

 

cheers for the quick reply ....nice one bud and cheers for no ripping into me for not cleaning my GAT haha SHOW CLEAN FOR A MONTH LOL

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I'd be amazed if you were experiencing a noticable loss of power from lead fouling alone. I dont think I have ever cleaned the bore of the air rifle I own, and it is 20 years old.

 

Guaranteed to be a job for the smith IMHO.

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I'd be amazed if you were experiencing a noticable loss of power from lead fouling alone. I dont think I have ever cleaned the bore of the air rifle I own, and it is 20 years old.

 

Guaranteed to be a job for the smith IMHO.

 

Stay clear of Prometheus pellets then Zapp. You need to sweep the chimney every other shot (allegedly) ;)

 

I have never cleaned my airgun barrels either. And as you say, it is unlikely to lead to power loss.

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only getting 9.5 out of my 22 harrier x .

 

i have never cleaned the barrel ....shoots fine and still drops bunnies at 35 yards but was shocked to see low figures after i chrono d it ....

 

ive used many rifles in my time in the forces i.e. the sa80 can have 900 rounds put though it before cleaning and it wont effect the weapon ballistics......so if i havent cleaned my 22 airrifle with the power only at sub 12 lbs would not cleaning the barrel be causing the rifle to shot 9.5 lbs with lead build up ....

 

hope that dozny sound to stupid a question lol..........cheers

 

Keeping barrels in good condition and clean will only ever be an advantage.

 

The simple fact is I struggle to see any situation ever caused by lead fouling in an air rifle that can take 2.5ft lb off it.

 

Clean it by all means, but if it puts 0.5ft lb back I will be amazed.

 

If you want more power try a few other pellets first, and watch the sizes, for example, 5.50, 5.51, 5.52, they can all make a difference.

 

If you are struggling, a service or tuning kit will get you nearer to 12ft lb.

 

People commonly suggest it makes little difference, between the likes of 9.5 and 11.99999999999999999999999999 etc ft lb.

 

That is rubbish, an increase as above is 26%, that is significant and noticeable, the fact is you may simply not need it though! :good:

 

PS

Things must have changed, can a SA80 actually fire 900 rounds without breaking these days? :o :hmm::lol:

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Keeping barrels in good condition and clean will only ever be an advantage.

 

The simple fact is I struggle to see any situation ever caused by lead fouling in an air rifle that can take 2.5ft lb off it.

 

Clean it by all means, but if it puts 0.5ft lb back I will be amazed.

 

If you want more power try a few other pellets first, and watch the sizes, for example, 5.50, 5.51, 5.52, they can all make a difference.

 

If you are struggling, a service or tuning kit will get you nearer to 12ft lb.

 

People commonly suggest it makes little difference, between the likes of 9.5 and 11.99999999999999999999999999 etc ft lb.

 

That is rubbish, an increase as above is 26%, that is significant and noticeable, the fact is you may simply not need it though! :good:

 

PS

Things must have changed, can a SA80 actually fire 900 rounds without breaking these days? :o :hmm::lol:

 

It is often quoted that you need around 4 ft/lb to kill a rabbit. A 10 ft/lb air rifle will retain almost 5 ft/lb at 60 yds. That is as far as anyone is likely to shot a bunny. It will normally shoot smoother and therefore be more accurate, especially at longer ranges. The most noticible difference between a 12 ft/lb springer and a 10 ft/lb springer is felt in the recoil of the rifle, not 60 yds down the range, once you have adjusted the scope accordingly.

 

Power isn't everything with sub FAC air rifles.

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It is often quoted that you need around 4 ft/lb to kill a rabbit. A 10 ft/lb air rifle will retain almost 5 ft/lb at 60 yds. That is as far as anyone is likely to shot a bunny. It will normally shoot smoother and therefore be more accurate, especially at longer ranges. The most noticible difference between a 12 ft/lb springer and a 10 ft/lb springer is felt in the recoil of the rifle, not 60 yds down the range, once you have adjusted the scope accordingly.

 

Power isn't everything with sub FAC air rifles.

 

I am aware there is balancing act of strong and decent springs and power on some rifles.

 

Unless something has changed The Harrier is a PCP and will show considerable enhancement to the shooter at 12ft lb rather than 9.5. :yes::yes:

 

ATB!

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I am aware there is balancing act of strong and decent springs and power on some rifles.

 

Unless something has changed The Harrier is a PCP and will show considerable enhancement to the shooter at 12ft lb rather than 9.5. :yes::yes:

 

ATB!

 

I was answering the part of your post that is in bold type. You generalised about power making a big difference. It does not, and there is no need to push the rifle to 11.999999 ft/lb when 10 ft/lb will do the job as well if not better. I am not aware of any real, let alone considerable, enhancement to the shooter of increasing the power from 9.5 ft/lb to 12 ft/lb. Perhaps you could explain?

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I was answering the part of your post that is in bold type. You generalised about power making a big difference. It does not, and there is no need to push the rifle to 11.999999 ft/lb when 10 ft/lb will do the job as well if not better. I am not aware of any real, let alone considerable, enhancement to the shooter of increasing the power from 9.5 ft/lb to 12 ft/lb. Perhaps you could explain?

The only benefit is a slightly flatter trajectory.

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Don't clean the barrel as it will take 200 pellets to bed it in again.

I cleaned the barrel once and regretted it as it shot everywhere. I've shot ft for over ten years and know that you either clean everytime or leave well alone. Oh and 11 over 9 ftlbs makes a big difference as with mine at 55 yrds is 1 inch

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Don't clean the barrel as it will take 200 pellets to bed it in again.

I cleaned the barrel once and regretted it as it shot everywhere. I've shot ft for over ten years and know that you either clean everytime or leave well alone. Oh and 11 over 9 ftlbs makes a big difference as with mine at 55 yrds is 1 inch

 

So, once you've adjusted the scope to suit, what difference then? :hmm:

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I was answering the part of your post that is in bold type. You generalised about power making a big difference. It does not, and there is no need to push the rifle to 11.999999 ft/lb when 10 ft/lb will do the job as well if not better. I am not aware of any real, let alone considerable, enhancement to the shooter of increasing the power from 9.5 ft/lb to 12 ft/lb. Perhaps you could explain?

 

 

You can NOT be serious, have you ever used a PCP/Springer in the field in general Vermin control use?

 

As a Generalisation 12ft lb is better (more useful/useable)than 9.5ft lb.

 

Come on, I was not suggesting you went to 11.99999999999999999999999999, is was a legal figure to show the potential increase in power.

 

What is there to explain, a 26% increase in power of a pcp is VERY useful in many situations. What or earth are you talking about suggestion 10 is just as good if not better than 12ft lb.

 

I don't get where you are coming from, so why bother, why not 4ft lb for them all, why not 8ft lb for them all??

 

Why get a FAC Air, why get a rimfire, if all you need is 4ft lb for a bunny.

 

Simple, because each level will give you another edge, but as I pointed out in my first post, sometimes you just don't need it though.

 

In an appropriate and like for like situation, if I went out with you and you had 9.5pcp and I had 12 you would not get a single bunny because I would take them all before you could, FACT!

 

When my first PCP went FAC, up to 16ft lb it was a different world and no 12 ft lb could get anywhere close, same pellets as when it was 12ft lb.

It now runs at 26ft lb and still uses the same pellet (AA Field .5.51), putting a full magazine into a 1p at 40 yards, if that is not useful then what is? Just what sort of advantage are you suggesting in accuracy will be achieved running at lower power than 12 over that?

 

You are welcome to do whatever you please but don't try and convince the world 12 is not better/more useful than 9.5 in a PCP (or any half decent springer as well) in many many situations. Even my old .22 Airsporter (about 40 years old) with primitave technology by todays standards runs at 11.2 with Wasps and performs brilliantly.

 

ATB!

Edited by Dekers
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You still haven't explained what considerable advantage 12 ft/lb is over 10 ft/lb for hunting.

 

The recoil is greater the more power the rifle, PCP or springer, obviously more noticible on a springer. Less recoil means greater accuracy especially at longer ranges. My Prosport shoots far better at 10.5 than 11.5 and kills quarry at 40 yds including young hares, squirrels, pigeons, crows and rabbits.

 

Given that most airgun shooters take rabbits, etc at less than 40 yds there is no advantage of a higher power weapon than needed for that range. Even at 50 yds 10 ft/lb is enough. Dead is dead!

 

Once you start going much over 12 ft/lb with conventional airgun ammo you lose any advantage in range the power gives you in inaccuracy caused by pellet drift and recoil.

 

And, yes I have used both PCP and springers in the field for vermin control. Over 40 years actually. And I have owned and used a .22 LR.

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I don't really want to wade in on this one, but it has to be said that there are advantages to hunting at 12 ft/lb over 9.5 ft/lb, it's just the advantages are only very slight. Firstly, as I said before, you will have a loopier trajectory with a slower pellet, also it will take longer to reach the target meaning it will be affected by wind to a greater degree.

 

Ok, you may say that if you know your gun you will be able to compensate for that, but in the field it has to be an advantage to keep adjustments for elevation and windage to a minimum.

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Can you explain that please?

they spit pellets everywhere and then as they leadline up again your zero shifts so you need to constantly clean every 50 shots.

I do know top shots who like to clean everytime I admit but I've yet to experience any benefits for me.

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:yes:

You still haven't explained what considerable advantage 12 ft/lb is over 10 ft/lb for hunting. I thought the bit about me getting all the rabbits and you NONE was a pretty compelling argument!

 

The recoil is greater the more power the rifle, PCP or springer there is NO recoil to talk about on any 12ft lb PCP or Springer, you get spring bounce on some, end of! obviously more noticeable on a springer. Less recoil means greater accuracy especially at longer ranges. My Prosport shoots far better at 10.5 than 11.5 well, it was either designed and built to run at that power (which I doubt) or it needs a clean and service/tune then, or throwing away! and kills quarry at 40 yds so, you will get a higher kill ratio at closer range and increased range with 12ft lb including young hares, squirrels, pigeons, crows and rabbits. Given that most airgun shooters take rabbits, etc at less than 40 yds there is no advantage of a higher power weapon than needed for that range. 12ft lb is MUCH more capable at 40 yards in virtually every conceivable instance. Even at 50 yds 10 ft/lb is enough. Don't start all this bull about 10ft lb is capable out to 50 yards, of course it is, IF you can hit anything in the right place, 12 ft is much more capable, although generally still not recommended at that distance.Dead is Dead

 

Once you start going much over 12 ft/lb with conventional airgun ammo you lose any advantage in range the power gives you in inaccuracy caused by pellet drift and recoil. You have simply never done this have you, where did you read that rubbish?

 

And, yes I have used both PCP and springers in the field for vermin control. Over 40 years actually. And I have owned and used a .22 LR.

 

A few responses in green above.

 

And as for the bold bit above you simply have lost the plot, just what would you call AA Field ammo if not conventional airgun ammo, it is brilliant up to 30ft lb or more. :yes::yes:

 

And whilst we are at it, why don't you explain to everyone why you use 10ft lb when 4ft lb will do and the pellets and gun allegedly perform much better at lower power!

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Dekers; Hollow air rifle pellets do not travel the same as solid bullets designed for rimfires. The air rifle ammo is far more prone to wind drift than LR ammo especially at the ranges needed to justify having FAC air over sub 12 ft/lb air rifles. Why bother with all the FAC business for a 40 ft/lb airgun when a .22 LR will be far more accurate over a much greater range? And, yes I have shot FAC air and LR.

 

Now for your nonsense about comparing 4 ft/lb and 12 ft/lb which is where you have lost the plot and tried to cloud the issue. Let's make it simple; The retained energy in a 10 ft/lb air rifle is sufficient to kill a rabbit at 50 yds. Who shoots more than 50 yds with an air rifle? Why do you need more power? If the legal limit was 15 ft/lb would you be happy with 12? I think not. Too many people are chasing the 11.9 ft/lb goal without thinking about what is best for their gun.

 

There is marginal benefit in that extra 2 ft/lb and it could actually be detrimental. Flatter trajectory? We are talking just over 1" in 50 yds. If you can'tcompensate for that you shouldn't be shooting live quarry. Longer to reach the target? A tiny fraction that would not be able to notice.

 

Most guns have areas where they perform better and areas where they perform worse. Like cars. My Prosport is a far better gun to fire at 10.5 ft/lb than it is at 12 ft/lb. It kills what I aim it at at the distances I expect an air rifle to be capable of in my hands. Putting a couple of extra washers in makes my gun more powerful, but less efficient.

 

Team Tractor; Sorry but I simply do not believe that your gun spits ammo out all over the place if not shooting at full power. If it does the it needs looking at because there is something seriously wrong with it.

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Flatter trajectory? We are talking just over 1" in 50 yds. If you can'tcompensate for that you shouldn't be shooting live quarry. Longer to reach the target? A tiny fraction that would not be able to notice.

 

The OP said it was a .22 so, assuming the zero was at 28 yards, the pellet drop at 50 yards would be 5.6" with a full powered rifle, with only 9.5 ft/lbs available the pellet drop will be 7.5" that almost the same trajectory difference between .22 and .177.

 

Also the pellet will reach the target more than 10% quicker with a full powered rifle.

 

There's no disrespect meant and I'm sure you and many others could easily compensate perfectly well, but to my mind, why would you make it harder for yourself when you can easily and cheaply increase the power?

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With reference to the OP.

I think it needs service to check it out, Daystate will have it running properly.

 

And with reference to the power question.

 

Yes 9.5ft/lbs is more than enough to kill rabbits at normal airgun ranges.

On the proviso as with all rifle based shooting that you know your aim points and are a good judge of distance or use a range finder.

 

PCP's I like running about 11.3- 11.5 to allow for "testing" should the unthinkable happen. Perfectly usable and no great difference for me at sub 40yard's

 

A lot of springer guys will run at around 10.5 ft/lbs to gain extra control due to less recoil.

 

Basically if you know your aim points and are good at range finding, power is irrelevant in normal circumstances!

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Dekers; Hollow air rifle pellets do not travel the same as solid bullets designed for rimfires. The air rifle ammo is far more prone to wind drift than LR ammo especially at the ranges needed to justify having FAC air over sub 12 ft/lb air rifles. Why bother with all the FAC business for a 40 ft/lb airgun when a .22 LR will be far more accurate over a much greater range? And, yes I have shot FAC air and LR. Because a FAC air rifle can often be a better tool for any individual job that's why, I run 12ft lb air rifle, 26ft lb air rifle, .22lr. HMR, WMR, .223. 243. 308 and a cabinet of assorted shotguns, I use what is best for any job, and mine get used, thats why I know, and that's why they work!

 

Now for your nonsense about comparing 4 ft/lb and 12 ft/lb which is where you have lost the plot and tried to cloud the issue. Let's make it simple; The retained energy in a 10 ft/lb air rifle is sufficient to kill a rabbit at 50 yds. Who shoots more than 50 yds with an air rifle? Why do you need more power? If the legal limit was 15 ft/lb would you be happy with 12? I think not. Too many people are chasing the 11.9 ft/lb goal without thinking about what is best for their gun.

 

There is marginal benefit in that extra 2 ft/lb and it could actually be detrimental. Flatter trajectory? We are talking just over 1" in 50 yds. If you can'tcompensate for that you shouldn't be shooting live quarry. Longer to reach the target? A tiny fraction that would not be able to notice.

 

Most guns have areas where they perform better and areas where they perform worse. Like cars. My Prosport is a far better gun to fire at 10.5 ft/lb than it is at 12 ft/lb. It kills what I aim it at at the distances I expect an air rifle to be capable of in my hands And there lies the whole problem here, your experience (or lack of it) and your expectations. Putting a couple of extra washers in makes my gun more powerful, but less efficient. Shame you don't have a gun that works at 12ft lb then, you would never have started this if you had.

 

Team Tractor; Sorry but I simply do not believe that your gun spits ammo out all over the place if not shooting at full power. If it does the it needs looking at because there is something seriously wrong with it.

 

 

What on earth are you babbling on about, stay happy in your own little world and go and read another comic.

 

Are you seriously suggesting you use Hollow Point air rifle pellets out to 50 yards, (bought up by you now for the first time in this whole thread..WHY...and comparing them with rimfire :lol::lol::lol::lol: , talk about trying to muddy the water ) you will be lucky to hit a barn door, with ANY air rifle of ANY power.

 

The more you prattle on the more I am convinced you have NEVER gained any experience, but simply read some childrens comic on air rifle shooting! You just haven't done any of what you are talking about or you would know you are wrong!

 

People can take whatever they like from this, and you have an awful lot to learn.

 

The END!

Edited by Dekers
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What on earth are you babbling on about, stay happy in your own little world and go and read another comic.

 

Are you seriously suggesting you use Hollow Point air rifle pellets out to 50 yards, (bought up by you now for the first time in this whole thread..WHY...and comparing them with rimfire :lol::lol::lol::lol: , talk about trying to muddy the water ) you will be lucky to hit a barn door, with ANY air rifle of ANY power.

 

The more you prattle on the more I am convinced you have NEVER gained any experience, but simply read some childrens comic on air rifle shooting! You just haven't done any of what you are talking about or you would know you are wrong!

 

People can take whatever they like from this, and you have an awful lot to learn.

 

The END!

I think you've misunderstood, he said hollow and not hollow-point, ie. they are skirted.

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I think you've misunderstood, he said hollow and not hollow-point, ie. they are skirted.

 

 

Ok I can see the possibility there!

 

Got to admit I've never heard a pellet described as hollow because it has a skirt, the heads are usually pretty solid! And the likes of Bisley Magnum, and some others are pretty solid even though they still retain a skirt of sorts!

 

Perhaps this is a new one on me! :hmm::good:

 

Interestingly, in relation to his point he mentioned SOLID .22lr, seldom used (although perfectly legal and capable) on quarry, but generally more effective, and much more commonly used are Hollow Point .22lr. :yes:

 

Cheers

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