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Keeping barrels in good condition and clean will only ever be an advantage.

 

The simple fact is I struggle to see any situation ever caused by lead fouling in an air rifle that can take 2.5ft lb off it.

 

Clean it by all means, but if it puts 0.5ft lb back I will be amazed.

 

If you want more power try a few other pellets first, and watch the sizes, for example, 5.50, 5.51, 5.52, they can all make a difference.

 

If you are struggling, a service or tuning kit will get you nearer to 12ft lb.

 

People commonly suggest it makes little difference, between the likes of 9.5 and 11.99999999999999999999999999 etc ft lb.

 

That is rubbish, an increase as above is 26%, that is significant and noticeable, the fact is you may simply not need it though! :good:

 

PS

Things must have changed, can a SA80 actually fire 900 rounds without breaking these days? :o :hmm::lol:

 

 

sa80 a2 fine bit of kit as long as the split pin dosnt fall out the of the trigger assembly

:o :D

 

anyway guys ORDER ORDER.plz gentlemen :P

 

using dirty accupells :/ .5.5mm 14.3g i think, taken it in monday to get her serviced and see whats what cheers :good:

Edited by para90
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What on earth are you babbling on about, stay happy in your own little world and go and read another comic.

 

Are you seriously suggesting you use Hollow Point air rifle pellets out to 50 yards, (bought up by you now for the first time in this whole thread..WHY...and comparing them with rimfire :lol::lol::lol::lol: , talk about trying to muddy the water ) you will be lucky to hit a barn door, with ANY air rifle of ANY power.

 

The more you prattle on the more I am convinced you have NEVER gained any experience, but simply read some childrens comic on air rifle shooting! You just haven't done any of what you are talking about or you would know you are wrong!

 

People can take whatever they like from this, and you have an awful lot to learn.

 

The END!

 

Hollow, not hollow point. As in not solid. Unlike your head obviously :rolleyes:

 

A lot to learn? Not from you old chap.

 

 

 

P1020168.jpg

 

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Edited by UKPoacher
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Hollow, not hollow point. As in not solid. Unlike your head obviously :rolleyes:

 

A lot to learn? Not from you old chap.

 

 

 

P1020168.jpg

 

P1020153.jpg

 

P1020115.jpg

 

P1020139.jpg

 

 

 

Ha Ha!...you really shouldn't have done that!

 

This isn't about who has got the bigger one, but seeing as you brought it up, this is what you can do with a decent power air rifle. You know, the sort that can't shoot straight and get blown all over the place, you stick to your 10ft lb though because these obviously don't work!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Bye, time for work now, not back until Tuesday, my services are required by some landowners!

post-20848-0-21493500-1309032354.jpg

Edited by Dekers
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I don't see how you can equate the number of kills with the power of the rifle. Perhaps you could post the formulae? :rolleyes:

 

I posted those photos to show that I do actually go out shooting. You, like many other cyber warriors try to undermine anyone who takes a different stance to yours following the same tired old lines:

 

These are your quotes on thos subject:

 

People commonly suggest it makes little difference, between the likes of 9.5 and 11.99999999999999999999999999 etc ft lb.

 

That is rubbish, an increase as above is 26%, that is significant and noticeable, the fact is you may simply not need it though!

 

As a Generalisation 12ft lb is better (more useful/useable)than 9.5ft lb.

 

Come on, I was not suggesting you went to 11.99999999999999999999999999, is was a legal figure to show the potential increase in power.

 

What is there to explain, a 26% increase in power of a pcp is VERY useful in many situations. What or earth are you talking about suggestion 10 is just as good if not better than 12ft lb.

 

I don't get where you are coming from, so why bother, why not 4ft lb for them all, why not 8ft lb for them all??

 

Why get a FAC Air, why get a rimfire, if all you need is 4ft lb for a bunny.

 

and kills quarry at 40 yds so, you will get a higher kill ratio at closer range and increased range with 12ft lb including young hares, squirrels, pigeons, crows and rabbits. Given that most airgun shooters take rabbits, etc at less than 40 yds there is no advantage of a higher power weapon than needed for that range. 12ft lb is MUCH more capable at 40 yards in virtually every conceivable instance. Even at 50 yds 10 ft/lb is enough. Don't start all this bull about 10ft lb is capable out to 50 yards, of course it is, IF you can hit anything in the right place, 12 ft is much more capable, although generally still not recommended at that distance.

 

So, apart from the fact that on occassions make generalisations you cannot evidence, on other occassions you don't seem to understand the principle of retained energy, and finally in the red type you actually agree that 10 ft/lb is adequate for killing quarry at fifty yards, why can't you accept that some people actually don't need to have their PCP gun just under the limit for the shooting they do, and some people find it better to shoot springers at their sweet spot power wise?

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Hmmmm, I've read a lot of Poachers posts, and a lot of Dekers post. They are both seemingly experienced and knowledgeable shooters. But Poacher, I reckon you have wandered off base a bit here. I think your argument holds water with a springer. Less power equals less recoil, smoother action etc, and if you can get away with 10ftlb out to your maximum range, and still achieve sufficient power to kill (which of course you can) then of course a calmer, easier to shoot rifle is preferable.

Now PCPs are a whole different kettle of fish.

 

 

Give me the choice of an accurate 12fltb or accurate 40,50,60,70 ftlb rifle and which one would I choose? No brainer really isn't it? 12ftlb reaches out to 50, 60 yards at most. My FAC air will reach out to 100 plus. I've pretty much tried most pellets, at most sizes, at most speeds up to and well past supersonic. A JSB/AA will happily fly well up to around 1050fps from a choked LW barrel or a tapered BSA barrel. Around 950 is its real sweet spot though :yes: This means from a PCP I know it will resist wind better, shoot flatter, get there quicker (important on a twitchy target) and carry so much energy to the target that a instant kill is greatly increased.

 

There just is no logical argument against a more powerful rifle as long as power does not degrade accuracy.

 

Totally with you on the springer thing. But not PCP. Nuh uh. :no:

Edited by pabs
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Point 1 chrono can be wrong when was it last tested???just to be sure pop it in to your local gun shop and he or she will test it for you usually for free and they show you the reading point2 two years is quite a while as one of the guys said give it a service any way cars benefit by them so why not air rifles. pcp or springers

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Point 1 chrono can be wrong when was it last tested???just to be sure pop it in to your local gun shop and he or she will test it for you usually for free and they show you the reading point2 two years is quite a while as one of the guys said give it a service any way cars benefit by them so why not air rifles. pcp or springers

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Stay clear of Prometheus pellets then Zapp. You need to sweep the chimney every other shot (allegedly) ;)

 

I have never cleaned my airgun barrels either. And as you say, it is unlikely to lead to power loss.

 

Do they still make those? I remember the big hoo ha when they first came out in the early 90s.

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Hmmmm, I've read a lot of Poachers posts, and a lot of Dekers post. They are both seemingly experienced and knowledgeable shooters. But Poacher, I reckon you have wandered off base a bit here. I think your argument holds water with a springer. Less power equals less recoil, smoother action etc, and if you can get away with 10ftlb out to your maximum range, and still achieve sufficient power to kill (which of course you can) then of course a calmer, easier to shoot rifle is preferable.

Now PCPs are a whole different kettle of fish.

 

 

Give me the choice of an accurate 12fltb or accurate 40,50,60,70 ftlb rifle and which one would I choose? No brainer really isn't it? 12ftlb reaches out to 50, 60 yards at most. My FAC air will reach out to 100 plus. I've pretty much tried most pellets, at most sizes, at most speeds up to and well past supersonic. A JSB/AA will happily fly well up to around 1050fps from a choked LW barrel or a tapered BSA barrel. Around 950 is its real sweet spot though :yes: This means from a PCP I know it will resist wind better, shoot flatter, get there quicker (important on a twitchy target) and carry so much energy to the target that a instant kill is greatly increased.

 

There just is no logical argument against a more powerful rifle as long as power does not degrade accuracy.

 

Totally with you on the springer thing. But not PCP. Nuh uh. :no:

 

My whole point is that many if not most shooters don't actually need the full 12 ft/lb if they analysed their shooting habits. Who actually shoots quarry at a measured 50 yds? And that if 10 ft/lb is enough to shoot quarry out to 50 yds then why beat yourself up because your rifle does not do 11.9 ft/lb? Every gun has some recoil, even PCPs. And muzzle flip to some extent. If you reduce those forces by not having the gun more powerful than you need it to be, then you have a more accurate and therefore more useable gun.

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[quote name='UKPoacher' timestamp='1308991476'

Team Tractor; Sorry but I simply do not believe that your gun spits ammo out all over the place if not shooting at full power. If it does the it needs looking at because there is something seriously wrong with it.

WHAT are you on about? I said if I clean my barrel it spits them every where nothing about shooting full power.

Also you always going to be better off with less drop at 50 yrds as you stand a better chance of it landing in the right place. I've shot ft for over 14 years now and understand the flight of a pellet

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Ha Ha!...you really shouldn't have done that!

 

This isn't about who has got the bigger one, but seeing as you brought it up, this is what you can do with a decent power air rifle. You know, the sort that can't shoot straight and get blown all over the place, you stick to your 10ft lb though because these obviously don't work!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Bye, time for work now, not back until Tuesday, my services are required by some landowners!

 

:hmm: are there many greys on your shoots then :blink: ive been shooting since i was 14 so 30yrs now and i dont think ive seen that many greys in all that time never mind get a bag like that ...was that a new shoot were they hadnt been controled if you dont mind me asking .

i shoot in fife/angus were they are few and far between.....

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:hmm: are there many greys on your shoots then :blink: ive been shooting since i was 14 so 30yrs now and i dont think ive seen that many greys in all that time never mind get a bag like that ...was that a new shoot were they hadnt been controled if you dont mind me asking .

i shoot in fife/angus were they are few and far between.....

 

In the good old days of the 70's and 80's I used to get invited down to Clumber Park in Nottighamshire for their annual grey squirrel cull. The final bag was around a thousand if I remember right. Most used shotguns and drey tapping techniques though.

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WHAT are you on about? I said if I clean my barrel it spits them every where nothing about shooting full power.

Also you always going to be better off with less drop at 50 yrds as you stand a better chance of it landing in the right place. I've shot ft for over 14 years now and understand the flight of a pellet

 

I think we are at cross purposes. You said that your gun was 1" lower POI at the lower power level and I made the point that if you adjusted the scope then that would sort that out. I take it your reference to spitting pellets all over is due to barrel cleaning, or not as the case may be?

 

1" difference in 50 yds is nothing. You can get more than that by changing pellets or using different calibres. As long as you understand your gun you will adjust to any situation and compensate accordingly.

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But u could buy a .22 in that case. I grew up on hold over hold under while doing ft and really don't hardly ever miss but no one can guess ranges that close especially in valleys so a flatter tradjectory is always a bonus. ps mines only just over 11ftlb. Don't make life hard

Edited by team tractor
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i dont know how long its been at that f/lbs and it drops bunnies at mt zero no prob so a previous post said what i preach myself ...if its not broke dont fix it ....but now knowing its at 9.5 there is obviously something u/s so a well earned tune up wont harm it :good:

Edited by para90
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Keeping barrels in good condition and clean will only ever be an advantage.

 

The simple fact is I struggle to see any situation ever caused by lead fouling in an air rifle that can take 2.5ft lb off it.

 

Clean it by all means, but if it puts 0.5ft lb back I will be amazed.

 

If you want more power try a few other pellets first, and watch the sizes, for example, 5.50, 5.51, 5.52, they can all make a difference.

 

If you are struggling, a service or tuning kit will get you nearer to 12ft lb.

 

People commonly suggest it makes little difference, between the likes of 9.5 and 11.99999999999999999999999999 etc ft lb.

 

That is rubbish, an increase as above is 26%, that is significant and noticeable, the fact is you may simply not need it though! :good:

 

PS

Things must have changed, can a SA80 actually fire 900 rounds without breaking these days? :o :hmm::lol:

sa 80 z garbage ,i fired the 1st models in my youth in the royal green jackets,and if you accidently dropped one for which you would have been hammered by the qm ,they fell to pieces.give me a good old fashioned man stopping slr l1a1(7.62)or a gimpy any day

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It is often quoted that you need around 4 ft/lb to kill a rabbit. A 10 ft/lb air rifle will retain almost 5 ft/lb at 60 yds. That is as far as anyone is likely to shot a bunny. It will normally shoot smoother and therefore be more accurate, especially at longer ranges. The most noticible difference between a 12 ft/lb springer and a 10 ft/lb springer is felt in the recoil of the rifle, not 60 yds down the range, once you have adjusted the scope accordingly.

 

Power isn't everything with sub FAC air rifles.

accuracy is king ,period :good:

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I am aware there is balancing act of strong and decent springs and power on some rifles.

 

Unless something has changed The Harrier is a PCP and will show considerable enhancement to the shooter at 12ft lb rather than 9.5. :yes::yes:

 

ATB!

very correct mate from" an expert air gunner"of 34 years knowledge "ie,wakes up with gun book,goes to sleep with gun book and in between thinks of nothing but air rifles"

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I was answering the part of your post that is in bold type. You generalised about power making a big difference. It does not, and there is no need to push the rifle to 11.999999 ft/lb when 10 ft/lb will do the job as well if not better. I am not aware of any real, let alone considerable, enhancement to the shooter of increasing the power from 9.5 ft/lb to 12 ft/lb. Perhaps you could explain?

its all in the trigger ,and breathing plus the best pellet and zero also knowing your gun/scope/pellet and combo as a whole,not just relying on it performing which is wrong :no:

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You can NOT be serious, have you ever used a PCP/Springer in the field in general Vermin control use?

 

As a Generalisation 12ft lb is better (more useful/useable)than 9.5ft lb.

 

Come on, I was not suggesting you went to 11.99999999999999999999999999, is was a legal figure to show the potential increase in power.

 

What is there to explain, a 26% increase in power of a pcp is VERY useful in many situations. What or earth are you talking about suggestion 10 is just as good if not better than 12ft lb.

 

I don't get where you are coming from, so why bother, why not 4ft lb for them all, why not 8ft lb for them all??

 

Why get a FAC Air, why get a rimfire, if all you need is 4ft lb for a bunny.

 

Simple, because each level will give you another edge, but as I pointed out in my first post, sometimes you just don't need it though.

 

In an appropriate and like for like situation, if I went out with you and you had 9.5pcp and I had 12 you would not get a single bunny because I would take them all before you could, FACT!

 

When my first PCP went FAC, up to 16ft lb it was a different world and no 12 ft lb could get anywhere close, same pellets as when it was 12ft lb.

It now runs at 26ft lb and still uses the same pellet (AA Field .5.51), putting a full magazine into a 1p at 40 yards, if that is not useful then what is? Just what sort of advantage are you suggesting in accuracy will be achieved running at lower power than 12 over that?

 

You are welcome to do whatever you please but don't try and convince the world 12 is not better/more useful than 9.5 in a PCP (or any half decent springer as well) in many many situations. Even my old .22 Airsporter (about 40 years old) with primitave technology by todays standards runs at 11.2 with Wasps and performs brilliantly.

 

ATB!

no disrespects uk poacher,but i think you need to get a new prescription mate,cause the one your on now doesnt suit you?or stick to shot guns m8

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You still haven't explained what considerable advantage 12 ft/lb is over 10 ft/lb for hunting.

 

The recoil is greater the more power the rifle, PCP or springer, obviously more noticible on a springer. Less recoil means greater accuracy especially at longer ranges. My Prosport shoots far better at 10.5 than 11.5 and kills quarry at 40 yds including young hares, squirrels, pigeons, crows and rabbits.

 

Given that most airgun shooters take rabbits, etc at less than 40 yds there is no advantage of a higher power weapon than needed for that range. Even at 50 yds 10 ft/lb is enough. Dead is dead!

 

Once you start going much over 12 ft/lb with conventional airgun ammo you lose any advantage in range the power gives you in inaccuracy caused by pellet drift and recoil.

 

And, yes I have used both PCP and springers in the field for vermin control. Over 40 years actually. And I have owned and used a .22 LR.

correct me if im wrong but arent pcps recoilless? :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

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they spit pellets everywhere and then as they leadline up again your zero shifts so you need to constantly clean every 50 shots.

I do know top shots who like to clean everytime I admit but I've yet to experience any benefits for me.

pete sparkes uk hft champ cleans every 30 -40 ,i asked him hes on my face book account.i said are you just saying that for the sponsor ship thing ,he replied absolutely not,how long do you go without a bath (same thing ,clean it )

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