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Davy Holt
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The general licence also includes, vegetables, fruit and foodstuffs for livestock.

 

Like I said, if you grow your own fruit or veg and the woodys eat it, the scare crows didn't work, nor did the other bird scaring devices, then you can shoot them in your garden.

 

Iv never seen a pigeon eating grass, but if you say he was, and the field the bird was feeding on, was grazing land for cattle, again, he could have legally shot the bird.

 

 

Im not defending the OP, I personally would not do what he has done. However, he has not done anything illegal. But because he has upset a few peoples morals, they feel the need to have a pop.

 

I think you are stretching the bounds of reality there... If you had a market garden or even an alotment (although that would raise other, more serious issues) I could go along with it... your back garden ??? Not many of us keep crops or livestock in our back garden and one woodie ain't going to harm anyone or anything and would be very easily scared off. A flock of them that you had tried and tried to discourage... perhaps but to be on the safe side I would call a professional in to do it, then there can be no ambiguity about why it was done!

 

If you think that is a safe bet... go for it and when the court date comes up PLEASE let me know as I would love to come and see you defend yourself :yes:

 

There is a HUGE difference between killing animals because it needs to be done or for food and enjoying it while you're at it and just killing animals for no other reason than you had a gun and it was there...

 

Sorry chaps but without morals our sport is put in far more danger than wearing combats and having 50 round .22 magazines!

Edited by Vipa
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I think you are stretching the bounds of reality there... If you had a market garden or even an alotment (although that would raise other, more serious issues) I could go along with it... your back garden ??? Not many of us keep crops or livestock in our back garden and one woodie ain't going to harm anyone or anything and would be very easily scared off. A flock of them that you had tried and tried to discourage... perhaps but to be on the safe side I would call a professional in to do it, then there can be no ambiguity about why it was done!

 

If you think that is a safe bet... go for it and when the court date comes up PLEASE let me know as I would love to come and see you defend yourself :yes:

 

There is a HUGE difference between killing animals because it needs to be done or for food and enjoying it while you're at it and just killing animals for no other reason than you had a gun and it was there...

 

Sorry chaps but without morals our sport is put in far more danger than wearing combats and having 50 round .22 magazines!

 

4 of my neighbours have vegetable patches in their garden. There is also a large allotment over the back, and a few large wheat fields beyond that. Watching pigeons all over both every day, then the birds landing in the garden veg patch.......... would never get as far as court mate.

 

Any how thats all a bit off topic from the OP, which showed an obliterated pigeon.

 

As I said, I wouldnt have done it, he quite possibly could have shoot it for fun, but none of us can prove that so he should have the benefit of the doubt, as it would be impossible to prove because he has a number of justifications in which he could use to escape prosecution.

Edited by chrispti
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I always wonder why people are convinced the general licences are only applicable to commercially grown crops, if anything the relative damgage caused by pigeons is greater on smaller holdings such as vegetable patches. Also, when does a farm become a smallholding, become a vegetable patch...

 

As for the original picture, not my cup of tea, but i'm not going to fly off the handle about it.

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Not convinced of any such thing but comparing a small holding/allotment/market garden to a commercially grown crop is one thing... doing the same with the average back garden is another...

 

As I have previously said... I think you would have a very difficult time convincing a court that a few veggies planted in a back garden constitutes a 'crop' or that killing woodies in your garden was necesasary to protect 'public health!' I am pretty sure the same distinction would be made as it is with deer... You legally shoot a deer, you do not need to have any credentials to carve it up and feed it to your family however, as soon as it is going into the food chain or being sold, you need to have the old food hygene cert etc...

 

I would speculate that a court would only view it as 'crop protection' or protection against a 'health hazard' if the vegies were destined for sale to or consumed by the general public. I don't know of many people that could prove the veggies grown in an average back garden will be sold on..

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Anybody got a link..?

 

Pm me if you want, would like to see what all the do gooders are chirping on about.

 

I resent the term do gooder... just pointing out (originally) that I find posting pics of a splattered animal shot with an inapropriate weapon just to show how much damage said weapon did to said animal with absolutely no valid reason for shooting the animal is just slightly morally lacking in my view and is exactly the kind of thing that does show our sport, or to be more specific, it's participants, in a very poor light.

 

And... to Chrispti...

 

You are correct, the GL does not refer specifically to scale... it states...

 

1. Subject to paragraph 2 and the licence conditions, this licence is granted to:

(i) Prevent serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, fisheries or inland waters, and

(ii) Prevent the spread of disease.

 

I don't think when they wrote this they were thinking of a few dozen carrots in someones garden :lol: and I don't think (as has been proved) the RSPCA and the courts would see it that way either!

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Oh give over guys.... this is a blatant example of killing for fun! Falls into the same catagory as the vid posted last year of someone blowing rabbits up with a 22-250, although that could POSSIBLY be justified if it was an extermination excercise...

 

Nice to see the crop you were protecting is now safe from the ravages of the feeding hordes of woodie.... what is it again... rape, corn, pea...... no... it's grass! :rolleyes:

its much better to gust pop up froma bit of hide net and pop them with no 6s eh. and when flighting into a wood it means your shootign to protect the leaves on the trees eh. a wood pigeon is a woodpigeon shooting it is shooting it be it on drillings witha shotgun or on grass with rifle.

 

oh and just so you know i thort that splat factor vid was bloody awsome

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I resent the term do gooder... just pointing out (originally) that I find posting pics of a splattered animal shot with an inapropriate weapon just to show how much damage said weapon did to said animal with absolutely no valid reason for shooting the animal is just slightly morally lacking in my view and is exactly the kind of thing that does show our sport, or to be more specific, it's participants, in a very poor light.

 

And... to Chrispti...

 

You are correct, the GL does not refer specifically to scale... it states...

 

1. Subject to paragraph 2 and the licence conditions, this licence is granted to:

(i) Prevent serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, fisheries or inland waters, and

(ii) Prevent the spread of disease.

 

I don't think when they wrote this they were thinking of a few dozen carrots in someones garden :lol: and I don't think (as has been proved) the RSPCA and the courts would see it that way either!

 

 

Crops are crops where ever they grow and of what ever quantity they are grown in. If they are being eaten by pigeons and your efforts to deter them have failed, you can legally shoot them (I am talking along the lines of airgun when I refer to shooting in the garden, if I never mentioned that earlier, and also provided you shot doesnt leave your boundary of course)

 

What would you do if a couple of pigeons where eating your veg patch :hmm: Your scarecrow and other scaring methods are ineffective.........

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I think a couple of you guys need a chill pill (you know who you are) i thought this was suppose to be a freindly forum :good::good:

 

Im chilled, and reading Vipas posts, Im pretty sure he is too :yes:

 

We are having a good debate, no one getting personal or picking up on spelling mistakes :no:

 

No one is getting excited or falling out on this page mate :good:

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Im chilled, and reading Vipas posts, Im pretty sure he is too :yes:

 

We are having a good debate, no one getting personal or picking up on spelling mistakes :no:

 

No one is getting excited or falling out on this page mate :good:

 

 

Well thats allright then as long as were all pulling in the right direction :):)

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I think a couple of you guys need a chill pill (you know who you are) i thought this was suppose to be a freindly forum :good::good:

 

Calm down... this is quite a restrained and gentlemanly thread compared to others! We are all entitled to an opinion... My personal opinion (an one no doubt shared with 99% of the non shooting public looking in on us through the window so to speak!) is that killing for killings sake is wholly wrong, is imoral and is made much worse when effectively gloated about with pictures of remains spread over a large area... totally unnecessary and even the OP must have felty guilty about it as the pic and accompanying comments were removed sharpish! good on you :yes:

 

If you disagree with this then, that is fine, that is your opinion, which you are quite rightly entitled to... however, if you do feel that killing animals for fun can be justified under any circumstances I would suggest that you are perhaps on your way off the reservation.... If you find killing fun go work in an abatoir, don't publicise the fact and bring our sport into disrepute with the general public! We have enough issues to deal with already.... we don't need any more!

 

Don't get confused between killing being the end result of hunting for fun and killing purely for fun... they are two very different things which show two mindsets poles apart... one shows absolutely no respect for life, the other, if done properly, shows the utmost respect for life!

 

As for the secondary issue of the GL, I think it's an interesting question... There was a case brought by the RSPCA a couple of years ago where someone shot a pigeon, with an air rifle, in his back garden. A neighbour reported it and he ended up being prosecuted, lost and ended up with a criminal record. I seem to remember him trying to cite bthe GL as defence and he was laughed out of court!

Edited by Vipa
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People make mistakes and post some dumb stuff on here that much is true. Then along come the glass tower brigade with their altruistic view on all things relating to shooting. Why not post your displeasure at pigeon shooting in relation to the general license on a hundred bird bag shoot over stubbles or someone's good bag roost shooting? When asked by a farmer to control pigeons for crop protection do you ask him to put a scarecrow out then a gas gun before accepting his offer of shooting?

 

I almost forgot that their is no fun involved in this as it is pest control not sport :P

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it seems the rule is we should all be sorry we have to kill any thing as part of pest controle, i make no qualms about it i like killing not in a sick murderer way but in a killing a crow makes me quite happy seing a pheasant shot makes me happy (ive been feeding the ltiile ******** for 6 month and dealing with their **** )

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it seems the rule is we should all be sorry we have to kill any thing as part of pest controle, i make no qualms about it i like killing not in a sick murderer way but in a killing a crow makes me quite happy seing a pheasant shot makes me happy (ive been feeding the ltiile ******** for 6 month and dealing with their **** )

 

Totally Agee with you on this one.

 

It's like saying I'm out lamping with a 270 n see a young fox cub not to shoot it coz it will blow it to peases

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I can agree partly with Vipa's post, some one just going out shooting anything, ''because he can'' and has no real understanding of the reasons why he can, is mindless and wrong.

 

However, the vast majority of members on this forum do know why they are shooting. It seems recently, that anyone who posts up a picture, is thrown into the docks and interrogated, assumptions are made and even accusations on some occasions.

 

We know very little about the shot or shooting, from a picture! I could understand if the OP were posing with a bag of red squirrels or a load of Brent geese, but he wasn't.

 

Just because YOU THINK something looks iffy, remembering you now nothing of the facts, send them a PM rather than trying to publicly assassinate them, or dont post anything at all :good:

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I can agree partly with Vipa's post, some one just going out shooting anything, ''because he can'' and has no real understanding of the reasons why he can, is mindless and wrong.

 

However, the vast majority of members on this forum do know why they are shooting. It seems recently, that anyone who posts up a picture, is thrown into the docks and interrogated, assumptions are made and even accusations on some occasions.

 

We know very little about the shot or shooting, from a picture! I could understand if the OP were posing with a bag of red squirrels or a load of Brent geese, but he wasn't.

 

Just because YOU THINK something looks iffy, remembering you now nothing of the facts, send them a PM rather than trying to publicly assassinate them, or dont post anything at all :good:

 

 

well said

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I can agree partly with Vipa's post, some one just going out shooting anything, ''because he can'' and has no real understanding of the reasons why he can, is mindless and wrong.

 

However, the vast majority of members on this forum do know why they are shooting. It seems recently, that anyone who posts up a picture, is thrown into the docks and interrogated, assumptions are made and even accusations on some occasions.

 

We know very little about the shot or shooting, from a picture! I could understand if the OP were posing with a bag of red squirrels or a load of Brent geese, but he wasn't.

 

Just because YOU THINK something looks iffy, remembering you now nothing of the facts, send them a PM rather than trying to publicly assassinate them, or dont post anything at all :good:

 

I'm glad you can see where I'm coming from Chris.... don't forget, I shoot deer, pigeons etc... however, I don't get a kick out of killing, I get a kick out of the process.... sounds paradoxical but there is a huge difference.

 

Lots of people jumpimg on the bandwagon here. As the pic and comments were removed not long after the thread was started I doubt most of those jumping in to defend the OP or the premise of the thread actually have any idea why I posted my comments or took my stance in the first place...

 

To try and paint a picture for you...

 

A picture of a meadow with the remains of a woodie spread over an area of about 20 sq ft.. it had been completely destroyed. The tag line accompanying it was something like "this is what a triple does to a pigeon."

 

I just find that a bit lacking in the morals department and shows a complete disregard for the animal in question... why would you shoot one pigeon with a CF rifle other than to 'see what happened?' Corvid, yes, I could understand... one crow could easily kill a lamb but one pigeon... it would do nothing to deter a flock and it is the flock that's the issue...

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Im coming in on this debate a bit late I know, I fully understand what Vipa is saying about killing for the sake of it, I to do not get a thrill out of the actual kill, but as said the process and effort leading up to it are the biggest part of it for me, dont get me wrong its very satisfying to have a clean kill with the bird folded in the air from a good range, but I make sure everything I shoot which is not vast amounts is always eaten. I thought that was some of the point of shooting, and I dont think you could eat a pigeon thats in hundreds of pieces.

Edited by marmitemania
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