Hamster Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 At the end of the day,if your not pointing your gun in the correct place,your gonnae miss,no matter what choke you,ve got on Actually no, not quite true, and that`s the whole point about chokes. In principal I agree that skill comes before choke selection which is why 95% of really good shots use tight chokes routinely. However, as mentioned earlier there is a significant difference in spread between tight and open at close ranges which is why Skeet shooters generally do better with chokes of no more than 1/4 for the majority of the shots, a few feel better with slightly tighter. You most certainly can break a Skeet type clay using open chokes if you are a bit off perfect aim. By the same token you most certainly will miss more than your fair share of 35+ yard going away trap type clays if you insist on using 1/4 or less. These are not my casual observations but borne out from years of collective pattern testing and actual shooting by a few million shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son Of Potter Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I have fixed choke in my gun, 3/8's and 5/8s! Best combination ever!! I went round Hodnet with these chokes and Eley Olympics size 8 and scored a 93, The 7 I missed were not because i had the wrong choke or the wrong cartridegs in, It was purely down to me pointing the gun in the wrong place!! Simplify everything i was once told and concentrate on pointing the gun in the right place!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I have fixed choke in my gun, 3/8's and 5/8s! Best combination ever!! I went round Hodnet with these chokes and Eley Olympics size 8 and scored a 93, The 7 I missed were not because i had the wrong choke or the wrong cartridegs in, It was purely down to me pointing the gun in the wrong place!! Simplify everything i was once told and concentrate on pointing the gun in the right place!! I have a MC gun but it has had 1/4 and 3/8 in it since i got them 5/8 sounds interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. lecter Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 thanks for your comments , however ive bought a old miroku 3800 grade 4 choked three quarters and full shoot everything with it , im only a average shot but shot 24 on skeet and 22 , 23 on sportrap tonight at orston gun club , happy with that , if your on em they break . fixed choke is one less thing to worry about . by the way orston aint easy . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 thanks for your comments , however ive bought a old miroku 3800 grade 4 choked three quarters and full shoot everything with it , im only a average shot but shot 24 on skeet and 22 , 23 on sportrap tonight at orston gun club , happy with that , if your on em they break . fixed choke is one less thing to worry about . by the way orston aint easy . but what carts? and how do they pattern? its the choke+ cart combination that matters, congrats those are some good scores! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 why the difference in choke for fitasc? most of the stuff ive seen lately aint much different to a normal ESP course. Emmsy, To be honest that is what my intention is but I usually shoot with what is in as half the time I forget my chokes. The reason for the intention to tighten up for FITASC is exactly the same as you not feeling confident with any choke more open than 1/2. It's in our heads. If someone swapped my chokes for anything other than 1/4 & 3/8th I doubt if I could tell much difference, well perhaps if they were full & full!! I'm not saying you or some other top shots can't tell, I just know I can't My mates have all heard this story a thousand times before & I may have posted it before (I am getting old you know) but I have been shooting my Miroku (fixed choke) for 10 years, 2nd hand when I bought it. I was always under the impression it was a standard MK38 Sporter 1/4 in the bottom barrel and 3/4 in the top. Just over a year ago I took the barrels into a local gunsmiths to be re-blacked, as I had always intended to have the top opened out to a <>1/2 choke so I asked the 'smith to do it whilst he had the gun. we were chatting away and whilst he was talking he casually dropped a choke guage into the ends. "What did you say these are" he asked, "1/4 and 3/4" I replied, "well I'll have to check it with a bore measuring tool but the top is 3/4 and the bottom is true cylinder". My jaw dropped, he measured the bore properly and sure enough the bottom barrel had no choke at all. Well I knew that I was renowned for chippy kills but that didn't bother me, 100 chips and all that, not that I'd ever had 100 chips but from that moment on my excuse for a brain was cabbaged, every time I pulled the trigger on that bottom barrel I was thinking that it's true cylinder, it can't possibly hit that. Only lasted about 5 weeks when the gun was off to Nigel Teague's for £400+ worth of long chokes to be fitted. Now as I said it's 1/4 in the bottom & either 3/8 or 1/2 in the top for English Sporting, I don't choke twiddle between stand (hardly between shoots) but I do swop 'tween bottom & top barrels a lot. Although I had a decent run of form a couple of months ago (and more recent loss of form ) I'm convinced my choice of chokes and my decision not to change them all the time is the right one, well I would, wouldn't I. As I said earlier IMHO the important thing is the shooting, the style, technique, etc, etc not the equipment, I'm sure that you shooting a Baikal straight out of the box will whoop an A or B class shooter with a fitted, balanced, regulated Perazzi, you might be a few clays down on your best and all the gadgets in the world won't put more than 1 or 2 on the lower class guy's total, in fact the constant thought about chokes, patterns, etc. etc. will only detract from the serious business of where to kill the damn thing. Mr Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. lecter Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 thanks for all your comments , however ive just bought a miroku trap 3800 grade 4 , donkeys years old still original three quarters and full choke , must say i shoot everthing with it im only a average shot but tonight i shot 24 on skeet , 22 and 23 on sportrap well chuffed . orston gun club are pretty tough targets their clays fly like hot snot , i find fixed chokes one less thing to worry about easier to clean too . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Excellent advice +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Actually no, not quite true, and that`s the whole point about chokes. In principal I agree that skill comes before choke selection which is why 95% of really good shots use tight chokes routinely. However, as mentioned earlier there is a significant difference in spread between tight and open at close ranges which is why Skeet shooters generally do better with chokes of no more than 1/4 for the majority of the shots, a few feel better with slightly tighter. You most certainly can break a Skeet type clay using open chokes if you are a bit off perfect aim. By the same token you most certainly will miss more than your fair share of 35+ yard going away trap type clays if you insist on using 1/4 or less. These are not my casual observations but borne out from years of collective pattern testing and actual shooting by a few million shooters. I do see your point,But if your guns not pointing in the correct place you,ll not hit your target,irispective of what choke you,ve got in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 i`ve used cyl chokes on 70 yard crossers, and hit them. i was shocked that i hit them, but the breaks were single pellet strikes. i`m in the tighter choke selection, except skeet. thats what the cylinder set is for. 1/4 for steel stuff, 3/4 and full with my fixed choke sxs. there is very little argument in loosing 50% of your shotcount in the first 20 yards when shooting 45yard on edge birds. i shoot mainly at lakenheath ctc. they have some extreme targets, some are called skeet . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmsy Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 i shoot mainly at lakenheath ctc. they have some extreme targets, some are called skeet . you shouldnt laugh when its true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 How do you get the tarps flying ? They sound like the right size target for me . Oh these are minature tarps..... good swift kick up the rear launches them no problem... shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 i went to a haybayler a few years ago, and the target setup was following singles. so the same target twice, one after another. on every stand. most of the traps were set up to throw the target very fast. infact 20% of the clays shattered as they left the thrower. that was all of the stands. the throwers were moving about alot. with the force of the arm. making them jump up and down. one broke down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I do see your point,But if your guns not pointing in the correct place you,ll not hit your target,irispective of what choke you,ve got in Depends on what you call the 'correct place'. It's all about margin of error, and choosing the correct choke to maximise that margin. Afterall, nobody puts the shot in the 'correct place' EVERYTIME. If we could do that we'd never miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodit Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I use 1/4 3/8 and 21gram cartridges and that set up works for me. Sodit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Depends on what you call the 'correct place'. It's all about margin of error, and choosing the correct choke to maximise that margin. Afterall, nobody puts the shot in the 'correct place' EVERYTIME. If we could do that we'd never miss. Well if you point your gun in the correct place,You,ll hit the target,If not, you wont,No one,s perfect,you cant hit everything all the time,You win some,Lose some, thats the way it is,As long as you enjoy it, whether you hit them or not,thats what counts in my book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 As long as you enjoy it, whether you hit them or not,thats what counts in my book I only go because I love to make a noise (Hell you'd think I was firing alarm blanks) :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I only go because I love to make a noise (Hell you'd think I was firing alarm blanks) :lol: What, do you use a white stick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Removable chokes were invented by Satan to mess with shooters heads. Many times in the past when "coaching", I use the term loosely, new shooters, they have asked "What chokes are in the gun?" My response is "What choke do you think it should be?" Whatever the answer I responded " Good choice.Thats whats in it." And they shoot with confidence. In point of fact the choke is always I/C and quarter. Much of the effectiveness of any given choke is often in the shooters head rather than any discernable advantage in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Removable chokes were invented by Satan to mess with shooters heads. Many times in the past when "coaching", I use the term loosely, new shooters, they have asked "What chokes are in the gun?" My response is "What choke do you think it should be?" Whatever the answer I responded " Good choice.Thats whats in it." And they shoot with confidence. In point of fact the choke is always I/C and quarter. Much of the effectiveness of any given choke is often in the shooters head rather than any discernable advantage in the field. Chokes dont mean a thing to me Cos it,ll no matter what one you,ve got in, if you,r not pointing at the right bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 What, do you use a white stick Yes, that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Yes, that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Well if you point your gun in the correct place,You,ll hit the target,If not, you wont,No one,s perfect,you cant hit everything all the time,You win some,Lose some, thats the way it is,As long as you enjoy it, whether you hit them or not,thats what counts in my book I keep wanting to hide my choke related sadness but some just won`t let me . Sorry but the whole point about chokes and their effect on reducing the holes between your pellets is that you WON`T hit everything you correctly point your gun at . If you did then DTL shooters wouldn`t place such a premium on themselves by shooting 3/4 & Full would they? Those who routinely shoot a near pefect score with tight chokes would drop their average if they were to shoot with Skeet chokes, that is fact I`m afraid. Conversely it is much easier for everyone to hit a close rabbit clay with a pattern the size of a dustbin lid than one the size of a desert plate. Chokes work, it is whether you can understand them sufficiently well to gain a benefit from the difference. If not then no problem, stick to whatever combo of fixed and you`ll do well enough, even beat the chokes changers of equal skill, but all things being equal the choke changer can gain that vital one or two bird advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Well if you point your gun in the correct place,You,ll hit the target,If not, you wont,No one,s perfect,you cant hit everything all the time,You win some,Lose some, thats the way it is,As long as you enjoy it, whether you hit them or not,thats what counts in my book The problem is in how you look at it, if you are hopelessly off target then I agree choke doesn’t matter a jot, but if you are just a little out then there are different interpretations of why you missed. The OP was asking if there was any benefit in changing chokes or learn to shoot full full. Bearing this in mind if you shoot at a very close in target with full choke and ‘just’ miss your point is that the gun is in the wrong place, however, others would say the gun is in the correct place but you are using the wrong choke as you would have hit it with skeet choke. Although what you are saying is technically correct on close in targets (no holes in pattern) it’s an over simplified answer of the OP’s question, you could technically shoot every clay on the ground with a rimfire if you put the gun in the right place, but I doubt anyone could achieve it. So in answer to the OP’s original question there is a benefit to having a more open choke at close in targets (more correct places to put the gun) but a lot of shooters have got to the point in their shooting they no longer feel the need to change chokes at all (I am one of them) but I do accept there is a benefit in doing so. I do agree as long as you enjoy it that's what counts but some people do enjoy hitting more clays hence the debate Edited July 1, 2011 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 The problem is in how you look at it, if you are hopelessly off target then I agree choke doesn’t matter a jot, but if you are just a little out then there are different interpretations of why you missed. The OP was asking if there was any benefit in changing chokes or learn to shoot full full. Bearing this in mind if you shoot at a very close in target with full choke and ‘just’ miss your point is that the gun is in the wrong place, however, others would say the gun is in the correct place but you are using the wrong choke as you would have hit it with skeet choke. Although what you are saying is technically correct on close in targets (no holes in pattern) it’s an over simplified answer of the OP’s question, you could technically shoot every clay on the ground with a rimfire if you put the gun in the right place, but I doubt anyone could achieve it. So in answer to the OP’s original question there is a benefit to having a more open choke at close in targets (more correct places to put the gun) but a lot of shooters have got to the point in their shooting they no longer feel the need to change chokes at all (I am one of them) but I do accept there is a benefit in doing so. I do agree as long as you enjoy it that's what counts but some people do enjoy hitting more clays hence the debate Yes i agree with what your saying,Its just some people worry to much about what choke they,r using,Yes they can have there advantages,But just go out and shoot and enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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