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Maxus - good for you. I have seen enough threads descend into abuse, because or interpretations of various posts.

 

Prior to this thread, I had never actually heard of Muller chokes.

Thanks Gordon

 

I too have seen this happen infact I know you have had a similar problem where the thread descended into you being personally abused, and as a new shooter I'm keen to learn from those with more experience than me. I certainly never would intentionally insult anyone, unfortunately this is usually why I am a post reader and not a post poster. I just felt having shot the Mullers I had points that the OP would find useful.

Andy

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Well, I don't post on here often but when I do I certainly get my monies worth!

 

Seriously though, many thanks for all the responses, advice and experiences. On balance, I think the jury is still out on whether mullers are better than other chokes and whether the advertising is hype or reality. If it was obvious they could get me from mid A to AA by the end of the season, I would try a U2/U3 set, as it is'nt I won't. If I have a 100 quid burning a hole in my pocket I know who to give it to. Until then I will stick to my Guerini Maxis, now, they are awesome chokes ....!!

 

PS: funnily enough the jury seems to be out in the US as well as per a forum I sometimes dip into over there.

 

THanks again

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often it isnt discussed is shell speed when chokes are discussed. i`m sure you guys could argue til the cows come home on the advantage or disadvantage of 0.003" or .004" chokes. but in reality this means very little until you discuss cartridge components, speed, wad, powder etc.

 

i`ve only just got into patterning cartridges, because my local club has a pattern plate. slower cartridges do produce better / uniform patterns.

1200fps is a great load to be starting with. i`ve pattened subsonics and been very impressed.

 

i`m sure there are exclusions to the rule.

i patterned #4 subsonics on a pattern plate at 25yards and got a good "meaty" pattern, very few flyers on the edge of the pattern. this was with 1/4 choke and patterned like full !

 

i dont know why the industry is chasing the 1600fps shells, they probly dont pattern well.

 

knock off the speeds to 1100fps, with any choke, it should pattern very well, regardless of shotsize (with in reason guys).

 

will i be loading slower shells in the future? yep !

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often it isnt discussed is shell speed when chokes are discussed. i`m sure you guys could argue til the cows come home on the advantage or disadvantage of 0.003" or .004" chokes. but in reality this means very little until you discuss cartridge components, speed, wad, powder etc.

 

i`ve only just got into patterning cartridges, because my local club has a pattern plate. slower cartridges do produce better / uniform patterns.

1200fps is a great load to be starting with. i`ve pattened subsonics and been very impressed.

 

i`m sure there are exclusions to the rule.

i patterned #4 subsonics on a pattern plate at 25yards and got a good "meaty" pattern, very few flyers on the edge of the pattern. this was with 1/4 choke and patterned like full !

 

i dont know why the industry is chasing the 1600fps shells, they probly dont pattern well.

 

knock off the speeds to 1100fps, with any choke, it should pattern very well, regardless of shotsize (with in reason guys).

 

will i be loading slower shells in the future? yep !

Which cartridges in particular did you try?

 

Andy

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I haven't tried Muller Chokes, or handled them or frankly even prior to this thread, even heard of them.

 

While i can see some point to lightweight space age materials with regard to the weight and cleaning properties what i really dont get though is the insistence on only four different chokes being required, particularly when ther reason given on the manufacturers site for this suggests that they pattern in a more centre focused way than other chokes as if this is a good thing - yes i know that the nature of a pattern is allways slightly centre focused but the "unacheiveable ideal" is surely an even pattern!

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I haven't tried Muller Chokes, or handled them or frankly even prior to this thread, even heard of them.

 

While i can see some point to lightweight space age materials with regard to the weight and cleaning properties what i really dont get though is the insistence on only four different chokes being required, particularly when ther reason given on the manufacturers site for this suggests that they pattern in a more centre focused way than other chokes as if this is a good thing - yes i know that the nature of a pattern is allways slightly centre focused but the "unacheiveable ideal" is surely an even pattern!

What the manufactures say is that they maintain an even pattern out to the 30" diameter not just the 20" hotspot.

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People would shoot a lot better if there were only 3 constructions available- skeet half and full!

 

That`s close to Muller speak :) .

 

Don`t want to hijack this thread away from chokes but please feel free to start a new thread on shell speeds and I`ll bite each and every time someone says slow patterns/is better :lol: .

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What the manufactures say is that they maintain an even pattern out to the 30" diameter not just the 20" hotspot.

 

no they talk about having a "fringe" to their patterns. :huh:

 

look a choke is meant to produce 90% shot in 30 " circle at x yards distributed in that circle as evenly as possible . Pattern the same choke at 5 yards closer and you will have the 90% occupying a smaller diameter with a fair proportion of the 10% fliers providing a "fringe" in the 30 inch circle.

 

The same choke with tthe same cartridge in the same gun is not going to produce an 90% 30" even shot spread at 20 yards and at 25 yards as well - one or the other will have compromised performaince. Admittedly given that most of us never change chokes between each shot and we can't be sure of taking each shot at exactly 20 yards or 25 yards etc there will allways be a compromise but in this case it seems odd that a firm that is trying to sell a high end product are adding an extra compromise in only manufacturing in 4 sizes . :hmm:

 

If BMW said "our new x5 drugandpimp mobile only has 4 gears because 4 gears will do the job of five or six and won't affect performance, economy or off road performance" we would not buy, even if we where pimps or drugdealers :hmm::lol:

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All of the assumptions you made about my post are incorrect and I apologise if that was the impression given. I was not making a dig at anyone my comment about "putting it in the right place" was in relation to previous posts stating that the chokes you use are less important than being accurate with your shot (with which I completely agree). Of course i didn't think you assumed they were £200 each, I was merely stating a fact - I'm not sure all those reading the forum do know where to get them (although I know you do)

What I was trying - and obviously failing :blush: to do was stop the thread being about what everyone prefers choke wise, and stick to the question the OP asked about peoples opinion of Muller chokes.

Please accept my apologies for any unintended slur. I have read that 80% of all communication is non verbal and this kind of miscommunication just proves that. I can't even find a suitable emoticon??

Andy

 

 

No apologies necessary Andy :P Opinions are like ****holes as they say, everybody's got one ;)

 

To be fair and honest, as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out. I'm borrowing the Muller 2 & 3 off Nick again at Coniston, only this time I'll switch barrels on close stuff and see if that makes a difference. I'm not good enough to consistently tackle close clays with tight chokes and that might have something to do with the poor breaks the other day (actually they weren't poor breaks, but they weren't the balls of dust I was getting with Beretta 1/2 choke). It could be that a Muller 3 choke was just too much for me at that range. In any event, I think £200 at my level wouldn't be a sensible investment, think I need to get a lot better before I start worrying about chokes :oops:

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If BMW said "our new x5 drugandpimp mobile only has 4 gears because 4 gears will do the job of five or six and won't affect performance, economy or off road performance" we would not buy, even if we where pimps or drugdealers :hmm::lol:

 

Comfort, noise levels and economy are why the current X5 has 8 gears :yes: . If you put a 4 speed box in one then even a numpty could tell the difference in all those areas.

 

Not so with chokes. In all seriousness it would take a robot to tell the difference between an LM and 1/2 choke at 20 yards or the difference between 3/4 and Full at 30, talking breaks not patterns by the way.

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Comfort, noise levels and economy are why the current X5 has 8 gears :yes: . If you put a 4 speed box in one then even a numpty could tell the difference in all those areas.

 

Not so with chokes. In all seriousness it would take a robot to tell the difference between an LM and 1/2 choke at 20 yards or the difference between 3/4 and Full at 30.

 

I would defy the robot to spot the difference, if the same brand and batch of shells wasn't used.

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Comfort, noise levels and economy are why the current X5 has 8 gears :yes: . If you put a 4 speed box in one then even a numpty could tell the difference in all those areas.

 

Not so with chokes. In all seriousness it would take a robot to tell the difference between an LM and 1/2 choke at 20 yards or the difference between 3/4 and Full at 30.

 

I would agree that the ability to tell between a miss that is the result of a lack of ability on my part and a miss that is the result of me having a choke in the gun that does not happen to be ideal for the range the shot was taken at is certainly not something that I would expect any of us mere mortals to be able to judge.

 

I have however patterned my B1 with 1/4 and 3/8 choke side by side on the same plate at 20 yards The difference in the diameter of the spread was remarkable for chokes that are only half a traditional choke size apart. ( about 6" diference in diameter) So at 20 yards I need to be 6" more accurate in gun placement to acheive a hit with the 3/8 than I do the 1/4

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Hold me back..... <_<

 

But I thought you liked them so much at Coniston that you bought the company Victor Kiam stylee :P:lol: :lol:

 

I reckon I am going to sell my U1 U2 & U3 for Beretta optibore, I just never change from my standard Beretta 3/8 chokes, but I am going to keep 1 U2 for my auto though :yes:

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