Dekers Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) However, The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007 does not override the conditions of ones FAC. So, bearing this in mind, one does actually need "deer" or "humane dispatch" as a condition on ones FAC. Have a word with your firearms dept, see what they say, mine assured me it was totally unnecessary, back in 2007 after the amendment! I have deer listed for all my deer legal tools, so I could use any regardless (or shotgun, or knife or Club, etc etc), but if the .22lr was more appropriate, or all I had with me, are you suggesting I would be breaking the law as I have nothing about deer/humane despatch near it, this is precisely what the amendment went out to change. People with the wrong tools or no wording on their FAC standing around watching suffering. A response from on HIGH in your Firearms department would be interesting, most FEO will probably not have a clue! Edited August 30, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG6065 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 From experience of shooting cows and sheep on the farm a 410. Is probably the ideal Tool, we usually use a little baikal single barrel 410 with eley fourlongs and they do the job easily with out a mess where as the 12bore makes a mess with the Both cows and sheep but sheep especially need nothing heavier than a 410. Coming back to shooting the deer , what happens to the carcass? Who is entitled to it or who is called to remove it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Apache do you charge a call out when there is no deer to be found? Does anyone charge for despatching? (deer or other) I would guess the carcass belongs tot he council/highways agency as it is on their land? I would guess a local hound pack or contractor/knackerman gets called out? I wonder what the cost of an RTA deer is? Copper or 2 stood about with patrol car, Deer warden/Vet out of hours call, the disposal team etc? As an SGC holder i researched the topic for an if it ever happens scenario. Seems a bit of a long shot round here but you never know. Once again it's one of those situations where doing the right thing could end badly.... (or thats what people say) no wonder we are in such a mess as a country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) so why do you need a dog for a deer tangled in a fence Kent? Personally that is a situation where a shotgun is the ideal solution, we had a big fallow stuck with a heap of baler twine round its antlers and that had got wrapped round a tree. Getting anywhere near it wasn't an option and a 20b did the job with minimum extra distress to the deer. Bearing in mind it looked like it had been there days release even had we been able to hold it down wasn't an option. Knives are fine but beware if the policeman doesn't understand things and you botch it you run the risk of getting nicked for causing unnecessary suffering. Its best left for scenarios where there is no one watching. I havent the faintest idea what your talking about- correction, havent a clue how that got attached as a quote, cannot seem to find what i was actually reffering to Edited August 30, 2011 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 try reading your own post 24 where you quote an example of a deer caught in a fence and say a trained dog is essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Coming back to shooting the deer , what happens to the carcass? Who is entitled to it or who is called to remove it ? It is the councils responsibility, I ring highways department. Assume it goes in a bin lorry. Doubt anyone would object to your kind hearted clearing of the scene, but this must be done on a bike! Apache do you charge a call out when there is no deer to be found? Does anyone charge for despatching? (deer or other) It's difficult if no deer is found, if called by the police/RSPCA then we do charge yes. If it's a member of the public, I am close by then might drive by for a look FOC. If you ring a vet practice (ie a small business) and call us out at midnight expect a bill! This is why the police like a list of people who will do it for free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 It's difficult if no deer is found, if called by the police/RSPCA then we do charge yes. If it's a member of the public, I am close by then might drive by for a look FOC. If you ring a vet practice (ie a small business) and call us out at midnight expect a bill! This is why the police like a list of people who will do it for free! So is it the Local constabulary you send the invoice too or the council? Just interested really. If called by the public and deer is found do you bill the Police/council or the person who called? My Aunt had a horse let out of a field by the T1t5 that stole a quad and local police were called (horse was on main road) they called a vet and she got a bill for £250 even though no vet ever turned up (well not before horse was back in the feild and gates etc secured) she got her vet to have a word and it disappeared thankfully. How does it work with not deer? i.e. sheep, dogs, cats? Took a hit cat to vet once (24 hour vet) it was dead by the time we got there.... they were very good and didn't charge us. But not a charity and could have i suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 The person who requests the service is liable for the bill. So if the police ring us we bill North Yorkshire Police. If the RSPCA ring we bill them. If a member of the public ring we usually direct them to the police or RSPCA unless I am close, doing nothing and it's a sociable hour! If you find a dog hit by a car and take it to the vet YOU are responsible for the bill, until the owner is contacted and consents to further treatment. Usually a responsible dog owner will pay for the full bill, but legally they have no requirement to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Have a word with your firearms dept, see what they say, mine assured me it was totally unnecessary, back in 2007 after the amendment! I have deer listed for all my deer legal tools, so I could use any regardless (or shotgun, or knife or Club, etc etc), but if the .22lr was more appropriate, or all I had with me, are you suggesting I would be breaking the law as I have nothing about deer/humane despatch near it, this is precisely what the amendment went out to change. People with the wrong tools or no wording on their FAC standing around watching suffering. A response from on HIGH in your Firearms department would be interesting, most FEO will probably not have a clue! I live in a very deer rich area and dispatch quite a lot of deer. When the law was changed to make .22rf and other small calibers legal for dispatching deer my firearms department advised that those who did not have humane dispatch should have that condition added to keep them legal. As I already had it, because I shoot a lot of farm stock, I did not need to but those that did not and were on the list did to keep them legal. I think you should check your facts because as I said the deer acts and amendments do not override fac conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Have a word with your firearms dept, see what they say, mine assured me it was totally unnecessary, back in 2007 after the amendment! I have deer listed for all my deer legal tools, so I could use any regardless (or shotgun, or knife or Club, etc etc), but if the .22lr was more appropriate, or all I had with me, are you suggesting I would be breaking the law as I have nothing about deer/humane despatch near it, this is precisely what the amendment went out to change. People with the wrong tools or no wording on their FAC standing around watching suffering. A response from on HIGH in your Firearms department would be interesting, most FEO will probably not have a clue! I live in a very deer rich area and dispatch quite a lot of deer. When the law was changed to make .22rf and other small calibers legal for dispatching deer my firearms department advised that those who did not have humane dispatch should have that condition added to keep them legal. As I already had it, because I shoot a lot of farm stock, I did not need to but those that did not and were on the list did to keep them legal. I think you should check your facts because as I said the deer acts and amendments do not override fac conditions. Come on Charlie.... ...........and as for deer rich, Roe are VERMIN round here, whatever that has to do with anything..... Just in case you hadn't noticed you have just confirmed what I said. I did check my facts years ago as stated above, and my department don't bother because you don't need it, it is AUTOMATIC, just as you have said, yours apparently want to write it down that ANYONE can despatch deer with any tool, my department take the attitude of why bother, its legal so we are wasting our time! Do you seriously think anyone in your area will be hauled before the courts for humane despatch before they have it automatically added to their FAC! SO EVERYONE in your area can do it automatically when they have it written on their FAC, which they all will according to you, without having to request it, EVERYONE in my area can do it automatically because it is legal and my dept don't bother wasting the ink! Whichever, the result is the same, hardly something to start an issue over! Edited August 30, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Come on Charlie.... ...........and as for deer rich, Roe are VERMIN round here, whatever that has to do with anything..... Just in case you hadn't noticed you have just confirmed what I said. I did check my facts years ago as stated above, and my department don't bother because you don't need it, it is AUTOMATIC, just as you have said, yours apparently want to write it down that ANYONE can despatch deer with any tool, my department take the attitude of why bother, its legal so we are wasting our time! Do you seriously think anyone in your area will be hauled before the courts for humane despatch before they have it automatically added to their FAC! SO EVERYONE in your area can do it automatically when they have it written on their FAC, which they all will according to you, without having to request it, EVERYONE in my area can do it automatically because it is legal and my dept don't bother wasting the ink! Whichever, the result is the same, hardly something to start an issue over! You are unbelievable. All I tried to do was to guide people in the correct direction by stating that to legally be able to use ones .22rf to despatch deer one needs the correct condition. You disagree with me, fair enough thats your choice but please don't lead everyone else who wishes to do things correctly up the garden path with your incorrect information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 You are unbelievable. All I tried to do was to guide people in the correct direction by stating that to legally be able to use ones .22rf to despatch deer one needs the correct condition. You disagree with me, fair enough thats your choice but please don't lead everyone else who wishes to do things correctly up the garden path with your incorrect information. Ha Ha, you're off an one again Charlie, I'm not disagreeing with you just telling you MY Region don't bother with the condition as it is NOT required, you are misleading everyone it is required. How many people do you seriously think it occurs to with a Fac Air, .22lr, HMR, WMR etc to ask for a Humane Despatch condition for Deer? So if they ask they can have it automatically but if they don't they will be hauled before the courts, does that really make any sense to you? As an Open response, EVERYONE here please contact their Firearms Manager and ASK! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 try reading your own post 24 where you quote an example of a deer caught in a fence and say a trained dog is essential. Like i say havent a clue i never meant to quote that post (might have been accidental) can't say were the one i did meant to quote disapeared to or perhaps it got deleated, who knows lifes a mystery. You wouldn't need much of a dog to find one dangling from the security fence now would you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Ha Ha, you're off an one again Charlie, I'm not disagreeing with you just telling you MY Region don't bother with the condition as it is NOT required, you are misleading everyone it is required. How many people do you seriously think it occurs to with a Fac Air, .22lr, HMR, WMR etc to ask for a Humane Despatch condition for Deer? So if they ask they can have it automatically but if they don't they will be hauled before the courts, does that really make any sense to you? As an Open response, EVERYONE here please contact their Firearms Manager and ASK! ATB! My FAC has a condition for "Humane killing of animals", that was put on when I asked if I could use my lr for dispatching lambs, the shotgun was unsavoury on a 2kg lamb, especially in a lambing barn, so they asked for the return of my FAC and put that on for me. This is Leicestershire Police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottletopbill Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 Met Police said I did not need it being put onto my licence after completing the BDS course. If you live in Kent Area me and a few others have sent out to various Council's and Highway's England and Police Forces for volunteering for humane dispatch. No response back from any so think again about doing the course and the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 Wow! 9 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 On 28/08/2011 at 18:45, dicehorn said: Avon & Som force use their own people re deer collisions Nope... They have a group of people who have humane dispatch on cert but the police are not interested in it or get involved, secret world get the call and then contact a list of known human dispatch holders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 I reckon that all the experts are missing the most important point in this issue. Nobody has mentioned the necessity for carrying out a risk assessment of the job in hand, beforehand. 🤓 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houseplant Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 22LR subsonic will do the job, no problem, but if I lived in the UK, I would drive on past and leave the police to sort it out. I feel sorry for the animals involved, but the police have played their part in making the lives of firearms owners very difficult. They've made their bed, they can lie in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 If I can choose I use a combination gun, 12 and 6,5x55. If required, for anything larger than a fallow deer that my lab can't hold down, I'll call on somebody that has a proper elk hund that can stop the animal. I always stop but then I don't live in the UK. /M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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