.243 deer round?

[Ballie]

Hi guys,

 

I posted a while ago about what rifle and sound mod to buy, and thanks for all the help. I ended up with a .243 Tikka lite s/s with a T8 and 8x56 shmit.

 

I would like to know are the Federal Premium v-shock (70grain nosler ballistc tip) bullets legal to shoot at deer, it says on the box that the muzzle fps is 3400 and the muzzle ft-lbs is 1795 is this ok?

[deadeye ive]

www.dcs.gov.uk/BestPractice/gd_fballisticschart.htm

[pete evans]

this chart is for scotland. is there a similar one for england?

[Browning]

I think here we should look further than what is legal, and look more at what is the right bullet to maintain

a clean and outright kill.

 

My opinion of ballistic tips is, yes they are destructive but above 3200 they can unpredictable and have been known to explode on impact, therefore causing superficial wounds. (Believe me, I have seen this!)

 

I know smaller deer do not have very tough hides, but I would never use a ballistic tipped bullet on ANY deer.

 

I now reload my own, but built up my stock of brass from Federal PowerShok 100gn soft points, which work

well in my Tikka T3, and have consistently given clean kills on Muntjac and Roe.

[AndyCM]

Hi Ballie,

 

The 70g's are for varmints (foxes mainly to us) - the Federal box identifies this, and for this purpose they are good if expensive.

 

I use 95g ballistic tips & 100g soft points (both home loaded) for deer, and are up to the job in my opinion. The 95g bullet being designed for hunting deer size game (and is not just 25g heavier than the 70g bullets).

 

The 1,700ft/lbs is just one consideration - you also need to find a round that is accurate in your gun.

 

Happy hunting

 

Cheers

AndyCM

[pete evans]

I think here we should look further than what is legal, and look more at what is the right bullet to maintain

a clean and outright kill.

 

My opinion of ballistic tips is, yes they are destructive but above 3200 they can unpredictable and have been known to explode on impact, therefore causing superficial wounds. (Believe me, I have seen this!)

 

I know smaller deer do not have very tough hides, but I would never use a ballistic tipped bullet on ANY deer.

 

I now reload my own, but built up my stock of brass from Federal PowerShok 100gn soft points, which work

well in my Tikka T3, and have consistently given clean kills on Muntjac and Roe.

 

 

i also use 100 grain soft point in my .243 for munty and do the job well.

[Hodmedod.one]

I started off using 100g soft points in my .243 for Muntjac and Roe. They did the job, but did pass right through the animal. I once shot a wounded Roe that was almost facing me but pointing slightly to my left. The bullet entered through the left shoulder blade and exited just in front of her right hind leg. A clean kill with a safe backstop. The animal was put out of its misery, but the meat was ruined.

 

I now reload my own and have started using 100g Nosler partition bullets. Early days yet, but I am impressed with the results so far.

 

As already mentioned, there may be a trade off between good kill performance and maximum accuracy. Hopefully you will find a round that fits the bill with your rifle.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Hodmedod.one

[The Bear]

I have had very good reults in terms of both accuracy and killing power with plain old sierra soft points.

[Gemini]

I now reload my own and have started using 100g Nosler partition bullets. Early days yet, but I am impressed with the results so far.

Those are the same bullets that I use in my re-loads.

I use 70grn V-max for fox and wouldn’t dream of using them on deer, not even Muntjack.

G.M.

[Ballie]

I do understand that a heavier bullet would normally be used for deer, and I have tried the 80 grain soft point - power shock ammunition from federal, but on my shoot which has lots of woodland the distances I am culling the Muntjac is only about 50 - 75 yards and I have found that the 80 grain soft points are going straight through the deer and not causing clean kills, sometimes even with a chest shoot they run off and you then have to run after them, find them and put them out of their misery.

 

However I am convinced that the 70 grain noslers will do a better job but I just want to know are they legal to use on deer?

 

Or are the 95 / 100 grain ballistic tips better?

 

I just don't like what I've seen with the 80 grain power-shok.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Ballie

[gibby]

I to have a T3 in .243 and i use the Federal 100 GR Soft Point Power Shok. Bloody marvelous on the deer i have shot, Clean kills all the time.

 

Gibby

Edited May 3, 2006 by gibby

[Frank]

Over here i have seen the 85 grain hallow points in .243 at work, all i can say is, they kill VERY quickly, on fallow, reds and sika.

[Quist]

I use 100 grain soft point feds.

Federal make a good consistent round.

[henry d]

This always seems to be a problem topic as far as munties go as they are small and light bodied and a big 100gr partition will just fly through and not even have the chance to expand like it would in a fallow etc. espacially at short ranges.I have never shot one so I think someone like Elma Fudd would be the guy to talk too.

[stirky]

I have used federal 100 grain powershock for a couple of seasons now, i am not realy impressed. I have found the bullet to be to hard on all occasions it has passed right through leaving an exit hole of about the size of a 20p piece even if has hit a bone on the way in and out. I only shoot roe and mostly is in thick cover so i want a bullet that will put them straight down with heart/lung shots on the spot.

I have just started to home load for my .243 and i am finding it frustrating at times but the rewards are great when you find a load that works. At the moment i an trying to find load data for Hornady 95 grain SST (super shock tip), any advice, via PM. :unsure:

[Browning]

Both shot with Federal 100gn soft points on Monday evening. (Apologies for photo, it's off the mobile)

 

Fox popped out of the hedge at 110 yards, Munty 10mins later at 50 yards.

 

Both died instantly. Minimal meat damage to Munty.

 

 

[stirky]

:unsure: Well done, thats a good evening out. Cant comment on muntys as we dont have them around this part of yorkshire yet.

[Frank]

Both shot with Federal 100gn soft points on Monday evening. (Apologies for photo, it's off the mobile)

 

Fox popped out of the hedge at 110 yards, Munty 10mins later at 50 yards.

 

Both died instantly. Minimal meat damage to Munty.

 

 

 

Good shooting Browning. :unsure:

A nice pair for the pot.

[Browning]

Ballie,

 

My apologies if my last post is seen as seen as hi-jacking your thread. It was meant to try and show

that 100gn softpoints are very capable of providing good clean kills on Muntjac, at close ranges, and

without causing massive meat damage.

[Ballie]

It seems that I have opened up a can of worms here, up until now I have always been in the heavyweight camp, let me elaborate, when I started shooting air rifles over 30 years ago I always felt that a .22 pellet had better stopping power than any .177 - then when I started shooting shotguns (25 years ago) I always preferred number 5 shot as my general cartridge and still do. However I am now contradicting myself by wanting to use these light rounds (70 grain) on deer, I have researched this over the last couple of days and must say that I am surprised to find out that in Scotland you can use 55 grain bullets and .222 cal at roe deer, personally I feel this is too light and too small a cal especiallyl as most of your Scottish deer will be taken at range (or so I am told) but for short range muntjac (under 100 yards) I am happy to try these 70 grain noslers, as another member of this forum has said a muntjac is not much bigger than a dog fox so the 70 grain round should work fine, I will report back in a few days after I have shot a few.

[Frank]

It seems that I have opened up a can of worms here, up until now I have always been in the heavyweight camp, let me elaborate, when I started shooting air rifles over 30 years ago I always felt that a .22 pellet had better stopping power than any .177 - then when I started shooting shotguns (25 years ago) I always preferred number 5 shot as my general cartridge and still do. However I am now contradicting myself by wanting to use these light rounds (70 grain) on deer, I have researched this over the last couple of days and must say that I am surprised to find out that in Scotland you can use 55 grain bullets and .222 cal at roe deer, personally I feel this is too light and too small a cal especiallyl as most of your Scottish deer will be taken at range (or so I am told) but for short range muntjac (under 100 yards) I am happy to try these 70 grain noslers, as another member of this forum has said a muntjac is not much bigger than a dog fox so the 70 grain round should work fine, I will report back in a few days after I have shot a few.

 

Looking farward to the report Ballie.

 

I shoot wild feral goats on a regular basis, using a .223 and 55 grain sp sako factory ammo.

My shots are taken under 200yds, mostly around 100 to 150.

I have never seen a goat get up yet and they are bigger then a munty.

Just my experience, not intending to criticise in anyway peeps. :unsure:

[Devilishdave]

.223 will put a man down at 600m so get things in perspective. your 70g will square a roe away at 200m no probs. I know guys in scotland that use 55g balistic tips for roe in 22-250 and have no problems with the deer droping.

 

Dave

[Elma Fud]

The name of the game is to kill the animal humanely, meat is a secondary concern. I believe that to ensure a humane kill then the bullet should have enough energy to perform its job (expand) and still have enough energy to exit the chest. With regards to bullet weights I personally feel heavier bullets perform better in this respect.

 

As the law stands Fister has it spot on.

 

Reading this thread, I feel people are not giving enough respect to muntjac. Just because they are small, fox sized doesn't mean they are "soft", they are certainly not soft. Anyone who has skinned a muntjac will know how much harder it is than skinning a roe. Also, anyone who has hunted in Africa will know how tough the animals are out there. Pound for pound muntjac are as tough as African animals. I have seen a roe buck shot at 70 yards with a .222 with a clean pass through. Likewise, I know of a muntjac doe shot with a .222 at 30 yards (illegal) whilst she was broadside and the bullet never exited. I was told that the deer did drop on the spot. If this animal were further away would this animal run on? with the possibility to die an agonsing death under a bush somewhere?

 

I shoot the majority of my muntjac with a .243 using 100 grain bullets to good effect. I have on occasions shot them with a 30.06 which I've found superb on them. "Small hole in, small hole out". Totally destroys the heart and lungs and the meat damage is kept to a minimum.

 

Ballie, as for your muntjac running after a clean pass through. I can only imagine that either the animal knows that you are there and is full of adrenaline or your hitting the deer to far back in the chest/liver region this will cause a deer to run on a short while.

Generic: - Remember if an animal does run on wait 10 mins or so. The animal won’t go far and you will give it a chance to find a quiet bush somewhere to lie down and die. If you follow up immediately you may keep pushing the deer deeper into cover, especially if the animal is gut shot.

If you suspect a gut shot (plop sound and a hunched back reaction) then wait 30 mins or more before following up. It will allow for the adrenaline to wear off and allow toxic shock to take effect, the animal will then cease up making a follow-up easier.

One last thing about muntjac runners. If you have a dog I would be very wary of letting a (loose) dog track a wounded muntjac buck. You may find that the muntjac has enough energy left to gore the dog.

 

Hope this helps

 

EF

[Ballie]

Thank you all for your input, I think Devilishdave has put things in prospective with his comment on .223 at 600yards and Elma Fud's comment on adrenaline was very interesting I hadn't thought of that at all.

 

I have now been out and shot a few Muntjac with the 70g noslers and they do work very well, so far I have not had any runners, all have dropped on the spot, although you can get some front end meat damage, but this is not a concern to me.

[Frank]

Thank you all for your input, I think Devilishdave has put things in prospective with his comment on .223 at 600yards and Elma Fud's comment on adrenaline was very interesting I hadn't thought of that at all.

 

I have now been out and shot a few Muntjac with the 70g noslers and they do work very well, so far I have not had any runners, all have dropped on the spot, although you can get some front end meat damage, but this is not a concern to me.

 

Thats great .

They kill very quick indeed, all the energy gets left in the animal.