Montefeltro Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Hello all, I recently purchased 250 Eley Firsts in size 8 fibre to shoot in my 2 ½ inch chambered hammer gun. On the cartridge box is says 67mm long to suit 2 ½ inch chambered guns, but I thought 65mm was the maximum size for 2 ½ inch chambers? Is it safe to shoot a 67mm long cartridge or should I stick to exactly 65mm? If you can only use 65mm in a 2 ½ inch chambered gun then why are Eley selling 67mm cartridges and saying for use on 2 ½ inch chambers?? I know its only 2mm but Id hate to damage the barrels or the forcing cones Regards Gary Edited September 28, 2011 by Montefeltro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montefeltro Posted September 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I've just worked it out and technically 2 1/2 inches is 63.5mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan-250 Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) The 65s are 2.559 so just a bit big , Where as 67 is 2.637 inch so a tad big really, I would stick to 65s to be on the safe side Edited September 28, 2011 by dan-250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Have a look on the cartridge it's self. I got a slab and on the box it says 67mm and on the cartridge it says 65mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montefeltro Posted September 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Well it says 67mm on the side of the cartridge and also on the box. But most places advertise them as 65mm. Even in the Eley Shooters Diary they quote the First's as 65mm. Why have they put 'to suit 2 1/2 inch chambered guns' when they clearly are too big? Mmmmmmm..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Have you measured one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montefeltro Posted September 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 No mate, they're at home and I'm at work. Just read a review and they are quoted as 55mm long and 67mm when fired to suit "most" 2 1/2 inch chambered guns. Still not convinced. Maybe I need to fired one in another gun then see if it fits in the chamber of the hammer gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montefeltro Posted September 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Even on their website they say min chamber length 65mm http://www.eleyhawkltd.com/compcarts-first.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 It is quite dangerous to fire the wrong length cartridge in a gun marked 2/1/2 inch. When a cartridge opens up the crimp it does so in the chamber, which is considerably bigger than the forcing cone if 67mm cartridges are used when they open the crimp will be slightly in the forcing cone which will increase chamber pressure by at least 30% not a good idea on an older gun. Yes they will fire and just produce a slight bit more recoil however the gun might be hard to open after each shot.You will not tell by trying to fit a fired cartridge in the chamber please just use the correct size cartridge in the first place and use up the 67mm in something else Happy shooting Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 The size is measured from a shot cartridge. I'm thinking that if it is longer than you chamber length it is not safe to shoot in you shotgun. I think that if the cartridge is longer it will not open enuf to allow the shot out and could cause pressure issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montefeltro Posted September 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I agree with you there lads and thanks for all the advice. My concern now is that Eley shouldn't be advertising the First's as a 2 1/2 inch cartridge as someone could have a serious accident if a barrel ruptures from continual use. Not good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 why dont you email eley? they should be a member of the cip and wouldnt give you the wrong answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I would email Eley but the packaging says 2 1/2 chamber they will be fine I used them in my old Westley Richards no problem but prefer Hull Comp X. Eley wont open themselves up to a law suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montefeltro Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I've just emailed Eleyhawk explaining the situation and asked if 67mm cartridges are suitable for a 2 1/2 inch chambered gun. I'll let you know what I hear back. Click..... Kaaboooooom...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) In the 1960s, Eley 'Grand Prix' crimp closure were in 70mm cases and the print said they were OK for 65mm chambers. Edited September 29, 2011 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montefeltro Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 That was the same era they were advertising "a fag a day keeps the doctor away" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montefeltro Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I just got this reply back from Eley... Dear Mr Taylor, Thank you for your email. All our cartridges conform with CIP regulations, you are able to use a 67mm case length cartridge in a 2.5 inch chambered gun. 67mm measurement relates to the fired case length. Kind Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlistairB Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Well that doesnt really answer the question does it as 67mm is still longer than 2.5 inches. I'd keep hold of that email just in case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montefeltro Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 That's exactly what my Dad said. I'm still not convinced myself. It would be a shame to ruin a gun that has survived 125 years in great condition for the sake of some duff advice. I'll stick to the Gambore Super XLR as I know they are 65mm. Shame they're only 24g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Interested to see what they say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skerray Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hi, I have a Mortimer and Son shotgun (was an Edinburgh gun maker). It was made pre first world War, been resleaved, nitro proofed, and is chambered for 2 1/2 inch cartridges. I use 67 mm cartridges all the time and it is perfectly safe to do so, as stated by Eley. Floating Chamber stated that in the sixtes Eley made cartridges 70mm for guns with a 2 1/2 inch chamber. I still have a box of these cartridges. They are Eley Grand Prix HV. On the box it is marked, Gauge 12, Length 70mm, Chamber 2 1/2 inches, Load 32 grams, 1 1/8 oz. As stated the box is marked 70mm, on the actual cartridge it is stamped 67.5mm. I am new to Pigeon Watch and do not know if I can attach pictures or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 No problem, perfectly acceptable. If that's you in the avatar thingy and just out of interest, as things aren't always what they seem, I'd could be more concerned about my dominant eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Why not take the slab back and swap for some 65mm even if there a different make. Better safe than sorry be hard to type a follow up post if you've blown your fingers off. Good luck with it either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmans Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 I also have had this issue. inserted a dowel into my 2.5 inch chambered 1905 westley richards hammer gun to find the chambers wwere 67mm before the forcing cone. So OK . what not may be ok though is the pressure issues. I bought some local 2.5 inch shells which the gunmakers here said would be ok only to find that they generate 3.7 tonnes. any body know the pressure of eley firsts and hull comp x? thanks George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Think I would be tempted to get another gun as it will only get harder and more expensive to find cartridges for the old 2.5 inches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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