clay shooter Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) I know a friend who has only a Remmington 12g shotgun who at the moment has his license in the hands of the firearms unit TAKEN BY THE Firearms Officer upon a recent renewals visit the replacement new one is awaiting renewal/processing/etc. and hes been told will be delivered in 2 weeks At the moment he has a shotgun of course and NO license for it He was TOLD he can inform a dealer and order Ammo the dealer to contact Firearms unit for verification IF NEEDED Also any police officer told to do likewise if stopped whilst out shooting ...Mmmmmm me thinks If he Fred dont need one ...DO I ?? And would any self respecting dealer sell ammo to Fred?? Edited October 12, 2011 by clay shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 This is a minefield, the answer is No, Yes and Maybe! ...and generally he will be able to simply walk into his local clay shoot and buy carts no questions asked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Very odd post. Of course you need a licence. He was TOLD he can inform a dealer and order Ammo the dealer to contact Firearms unit for verification IF NEEDED Also any police officer told to do likewise if stopped whilst out shooting ...Mmmmmm me thinks If he Fred dont need one ...DO I ?? I never cease to be amazed what a friend of a friend was told. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 It's rare I get asked for my licence to buy cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 The Gunshop should lose their ticket if they sell without an SGC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay shooter Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 told by Fred yes and it is very true Fred is the local postmaster here abouts mate and trusted by all.Of course if it happens to him it must have happened to you mate on renewal..or did you wait in the waiting room for yours too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmitemania Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Ive never been asked to show my licence to buy cartridges despite buying from several different shops, I must look trustworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 The Gunshop should lose their ticket if they sell without an SGC. There is no requirement in law to even hold a SGC to buy cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 There is no requirement in law to even hold a SGC to buy cartridges. Technically that is true. BUT, you can't just walk into a RFD these days and buy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Ive never been asked to show my licence to buy cartridges despite buying from several different shops, I must look trustworthy. Is this recently? I'm struggling with that! When I was a lad it was common (and legal) to pop down the shop and buy some carts for Dad's Birthday, Fathers Day, whatever, no problem, but times have changed! A regular local supplier perhaps, still, taking a big chance, a totally unknown RFD????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) There is no requirement in law to even hold a SGC to buy cartridges. Apache - I stand corrected. I have been asked for my SGC each and every time I have bought shells - and I have bought well over 100000. Edited October 12, 2011 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotland rifles Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 got to agree with the above. I have never been asked for my sgc here or up north, and its not a mine field at all, if you hold a SGC and its on renewal then you can continue to use your shot gun and purchase carts until it returns, bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 There is no requirement in law to even hold a SGC to buy cartridges. I'm sure there is. You don't need a licence to possess cartridges, but you do need one to buy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) From an old thread on the same subject. The following is copied from 'Firearms Law, Guidance to the police': iii) Shot Gun Cartridges A Shot gun certificate is not required to possess or acquire shot gun cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which diameter. All ordinary shot cartridges are covered by this description. However, a shot gun certificate (or firearm certificate authorising possession of a section 1 shot gun) is normally required to purchase shotgun cartridges. http://www.durham.police.uk/info/firearms/shotguns/grant_certificate.php Grant of a Shotgun Certificate Shotgun certificates are the mechanism of licensing for those smooth bore guns that do not require firearm certificates. A shotgun certificate differs from a firearm certificate in that it authorises the holder to have in his/her possession, or to acquire, shotguns without the need of approval in respect of each individual gun. Section 3(2) of the Firearms Amendment Act 1988 amends Section 28 of the 1968 Act to require that the certificate must specify the description of the shotguns to which it relates, including serial numbers, if applicable. Although a shotgun certificate is not required to possess cartridges used with Section 2 shotguns, you will need a shotgun certificate to purchase those cartridges. http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/help-advice/firearms-licensing/certificates-sg1.asp Grant of a Shotgun Certificate Shotgun certificates are the means of control and licensing for those smooth bore guns which fall into this category. A shotgun certificate differs from a firearms certificate in that it authorises the holder to have shotguns without the need of approval in respect of each individual gun. However, Section 3(2) of the Firearms Amendment Act 1988 amends Section 28 of the 1968 Act to require that the certificate must specify the description of the shotguns to which it relates, including serial numbers, if applicable. You need a shotgun certificate to purchase or acquire shotguns or purchase cartridges. Just Cartridges state that they need to see a copy of the front of your SGC to comply with the law. A firm which specialises in selling cartridges should know their business. Edited October 12, 2011 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claygone Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 i have always been asked for mine when buying catridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW682 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) I have always believed that you needed a SGC to buy cartridges (or possibly that a dealer could only sell to someone with a SGC thereby excluding private sales.) And yes I have been asked to produce my SGC when buying - both from normal RFD and JustCartridges. And yes, the Home Office guidance does make the comment that a SGC is NORMALLY required to buy cartridges (whatever normally actually means) However..I have just had a good look through the 1968 Firearms Act (including various ammendements) using the search function, and cannot find it. I thought I was going to find something to prove Apache wrong, but I have to say I think he is right. Edited October 12, 2011 by HW682 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 However..I have just had a good look through the 1968 Firearms Act (including various ammendements) using the search function, and cannot find it. I thought I was going to find something to prove Apache wrong, but I have to say I think he is right. Sickening isn't it I only know because I spent a lot of time reading legislation and could find nothing other than the very vague 'normally' and that's not law just guidance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) However..I have just had a good look through the 1968 Firearms Act (including various ammendements) using the search function, and cannot find it. I thought I was going to find something to prove Apache wrong, but I have to say I think he is right. Just asked this very question to my FLO due to my renewal , I was told I could be gifted cartridges but not buy them, I also remember my dad going through this in the 80’s when I was a lad and the legislation came through. So I checked the firearms act and it does state http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/45/section/5 (Amendment) Act 1988. 5Restriction on sale of ammunition for smooth-bore guns. (1)This section applies to ammunition to which section 1 of the principal Act does not apply and which is capable of being used in a shot gun or in a smooth-bore gun to which that section applies. (2)It is an offence for a person to sell any such ammunition to another person in the United Kingdom who is neither a registered firearms dealer nor a person who sells such ammunition by way of trade or business unless that other person— (a)produces a certificate authorising him to possess a gun of a kind mentioned in subsection (1) above; or (b)shows that he is by virtue of that Act or this Act entitled to have possession of such a gun without holding a certificate; or (c )produces a certificate authorising another person to possess such a gun, together with that person’s written authority to purchase the ammunition on his behalf. (3)An offence under this section shall be punishable on summary conviction with imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both. So it is an offence to sell someone ammunition for smooth-bore guns unless you have one of the above. Not too sure what ( b ) and ( c ) look like but I know what (a) looks like, in short you definitely need to produce something to BUY ammunition for a shot gun according to amendment 5 1988 just as my FLO said. edited to add .....the 'normally' is because of ( b ) and ( c ) if you have those you don't need a shotgun certificate but you need one of the above or its up to 6 months inside. Edited October 13, 2011 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 The easy answer is tell the licensing bod they can have your old cert on receipt of your new one as you may need it to buy a gun / ammo or show a farmer for new permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think © means that I could send my mrs to the shop to buy the cartridges as long as she had my SGC and a letter from me explaining that I've sent her to buy them because I can't get there. I'm going to try that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 My licence expired on the 18th September. I had a shoot booked and no cartridges so I rang my local office (Humberside) and 2 days later received a temporary certificate so I could legally use my guns and buy ammunition. It must be 10 weeks now since I sent off for my renewal, they were surprised I hadn't had my visit yet though as in her words it had been sent to division some weeks ago. Just curious now as to who does all the checking, firearms department or the local force,,,,,the wait is annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I recently shot a services day in Nottingham. A copper from Manchester was bemoaning the law as recently they had raided a "scroats" house and seized carts but found no firearms. They were going to have to return the carts now as he didn't need to hold a license to possess them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 The laws in this country don't make it easy for the police do they?! I feel sorry for coppers - the courts and the law let then down to the point that sometimes I wonder why they bother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think © means that I could send my mrs to the shop to buy the cartridges as long as she had my SGC and a letter from me explaining that I've sent her to buy them because I can't get there. I'm going to try that! I know it’s ridiculous, I thought the same thing, I would love to be a fly on the wall in the shop. I wonder if a letter off my mum would suffice for ( b ) like getting out of trouble at school.... Dear RFD please excuse Timps from not having a shot gun certificate because the dog ate it. Yours sincerely Timps’s mum :look: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazsl Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 you have to have sgc to buy carts but you can send someone to buy them for you with your sgc and a letter from you this is from when the lord of the manor sent the butler down for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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