buying a trained dog

[cockercas]

Anyone done it? I'm considering buying a cocker 'trained to field trial standard' dog. It comes with a hefty price tag so I'm trying to justify it. I own a cocker now a bitch but I have lost her this season because she is in pup (due 5th nov). But because I ended up been real busy her training never got finished. So anyone bought a trained dog. What was it like. Any regrets /pointers.

[kermitpwee]

Anyone done it? I'm considering buying a cocker 'trained to field trial standard' dog. It comes with a hefty price tag so I'm trying to justify it. I own a cocker now a bitch but I have lost her this season because she is in pup (due 5th nov). But because I ended up been real busy her training never got finished. So anyone bought a trained dog. What was it like. Any regrets /pointers.

 

I once bought a trained dog, he was a 4 year old springer trained to trial standard, ex trialler that just wasn't good enough for trial but an amazing dog for a normal man. Things to consider.

 

1. Is the dog truly trained to trial standard?

The dog should be hunting mad, stop on the stop whistle immediately and sharp on the recall, turn left and right on the whistle and quarter his ground well but close. Less than 10yards imo, personally as tight as 5yards at times as he will move out once you get him. Can the dog do blind retrieves? That is can the handler send the dog back for a blind and direct him properly. Also will the dog take to cover when told to? If the dog is truly trained to a high standard he should be able to do all these otherwise he is worth less money.

 

2.When you get the dog feed him for 4-5 days before you let him out so he will get to know you, only you must give him his freedom, he will learn that you are his master. The dog may not respond to your commands in the first month, however he must always respond to the stop whistle and if he is well trained he will. If he dosen't then contact the seller for advice immediately, also does the seller look like a chap you can call often if you have problems which you will have. It will take you this season to understand the dog and 2 seasons to understand his every move.

 

3. What age dog will you buy and why is the buyer selling?

A 2 year old dog will need you to shoot game over it and bring it on, are you prepared to do this? Does the dog have a brain and look bidable? WHEN THE DOG IS WORKING DOES HE LOOK BACK AT HIS HANDLER for commands or to see that he is doing a good job? IF HE DOESN'T THEN LEAVE HIM THERE NIGHTMARE.

 

4. Is he steady to flush and livestock, very important.

 

5. Do you like the dog, the look of the dog. You will have to spend time working and learning with the dog so you must like it!

 

THE REALITY

The dog should blow you away at the trial you get, if its a good dog you will be shocked unless you are used to buying very good trained dogs. The dog may drive you nuts in the first month, you are learning and he is learning so don't panic. Don't wreck the dogs head giving him commands for no reason other than to impress your friends, if he is doing his job and within range then let him at it. Trialing dogs often flourish in the hands of the normal man as they get less commands and can work themselves.

 

I have also bought a trained dog for my uncle and it worked out very well but much work must be done at the start to learn how to use and work the dog. Write down all the commands that the trainer gives you and good luck!

Edited October 26, 2011 by kermitpwee

[ferguson_tom]

We had a dog behaviour specialist bloke come to see my parents in laws German Shepherd as he was too dominant and tried to go for any other dog that looks. Anyway he turned up the second time with a 9 month old lab he was training for hunting and this puppy was brilliant he did everything he was told and was not scared of this bloody big shepherd within 5 mins he had them walking together.

 

Obviously we were interested in this dog when it was finished until he said the price tag of about £4000. This fella really did know what he was talking about and after explaining the time he put into it 4k seemed reasonable, he also says he trained the dogs to be multi-handler so they didn't just listen to him.

[bi9johnny]

i have just got what was advertised as a part trained 8 month old lab....now being realistic just how much shooting related training can a 8 month old have had , born at the end of the season and yes as he said he will retrieve fur and feather land and water all sounds good BUT it is now down to me to polish the dog training wise as the seller concentrated on the retrieving stuff and let the true obedience training to last WRONG it should be the other way the dog for his safety and mine should be rock solid on discipline.. make sure you get what you pay for as some demand high prices and will fob you off with ..well he did it for me it must be this or that.. i have seen it before...i have always bred my own labs until this one but have trained both springers and labs for shooting blokes(not shooting snobs)i too have sold dogs for good money but have always been prepared to do the handover to the new owner no matter how long it takes.

good luck and most of all enjoy it

regards

john

[straightbarrel]

I once bought a trained dog, he was a 4 year old springer trained to trial standard, ex trialler that just wasn't good enough for trial but an amazing dog for a normal man. Things to consider.

 

1. Is the dog truly trained to trial standard?

The dog should be hunting mad, stop on the stop whistle immediately and sharp on the recall, turn left and right on the whistle and quarter his ground well but close. Less than 10yards imo, personally as tight as 5yards at times as he will move out once you get him. Can the dog do blind retrieves? That is can the handler send the dog back for a blind and direct him properly. Also will the dog take to cover when told to? If the dog is truly trained to a high standard he should be able to do all these otherwise he is worth less money.

 

3. What age dog will you buy and why is the buyer selling?

A 2 year old dog will need you to shoot game over it and bring it on, are you prepared to do this? Does the dog have a brain and look bidable? WHEN THE DOG IS WORKING DOES HE LOOK BACK AT HIS HANDLER for commands or to see that he is doing a good job? IF HE DOESN'T THEN LEAVE HIM THERE NIGHTMARE.

 

 

 

Trained to trial standard, in who's opinion? I recently accompanied someone going to possibly purchase an extremely well bred dog from superb working stock. FTCh's throughout it's pedigree. It was supposedly " fully trained". The dog was brought from it's kennel and ordered to ssiiiiiit, in front of us, the owners nervous tone to his voice and exagerated ssiiiiiiitt, was enough for me. It did sit, for sure, for all of three or four seconds! Anyway we continued to go through the motions out of courtesy, watched poor retreives, no stop on whistle, very poor recall and more. The dog was a very capable dog, nothing at all wrong with the dog from the little we saw of it, apart from the fact it had been poorly trained, however, the chap selling the dog truly beleived he had a world beater on his hands, he thought the dog was trained to a good standard,it was not. He had never seen a good dog work, if this was his idea of "fully trained". Anyway, my mate decided against buying it, nothing wrong with the dog and if it had not been badly trained and handled, would have possibly made an excellent gundog, however, the price-tag, and the fact it was being sold as "fully trained" made the decision easy.

 

You need to see the dog performing to trial standard, if that is what you are paying for. This means all of the above mentioned previously and also, very important, the dog needs to be shot over. You need to witness the dog hunting, finding, flushing and retreiving game, fur and feather. Retreiving to hand from land and water with a gentle mouth. Listen for squeaks coming from the dog, the quieter it is, the better. If FTCh standard is what is advertised, this is what you want for your money. The general health of the dog,(and its parents) is also very important.

 

Good luck.

Edited October 27, 2011 by straightbarrel

[al4x]

It all depends who you buy from, I've seen dogs on shoots people bought trained and they are spot on but came from a reputable local source. He does a seasons picking up with them as well as trialing and they know what its all about. Not cheap but definitely go on recommendation more than anything else

[cockercas]

Yer the dogs not cheap and I do know what a good dog looks like. I could of had my granddads labs. Truly superb I took them out a few times shooting roosting pigeons on the estate. Walked into the wood give it the command to sit and it never moved for hour and half. Went and picked all the birds in the dark and walked by my side out. Brilliant dogs but I don't want a lab. Cockers are more my thing. I know I want a dog and not a bitch 2 reasons for this. 1. I won't be loosing it in the middle of the shooting season because its in season. 2. I can save on the £300 stud fees for the next few years. I wanted another dog anyway and it was rather buy another and feed inoculate train it (which I don't have time to do to a high stranded) so its still going to cost me £1000+ or keep one of the pups due and do the same but that's still going to cost me the same so I might aswell bite the bullet and get a trained one. Any recomedaitons of where to buy. I don't mind travelling the length of the country for the right dog

[TimmyG21]

Hi

 

Give Will Clulee a ring, hes not far from me and a great trainer. Hes got loads of dogs, if he cant sort you out he will know someone who can.

 

Look up poolegreen gundogs on the net and you will find his website.

 

Regards, Tim

[WGD]

Read a quote on another forum by a lad who took a dog to Ian Openshaw for him to have a look, the lad described the dog as part trained... after a few minutes Opie asked "which part's trained?"

 

All down to definition of a good standard and knowing 1) what you are looking at and 2) what you are happy with.

 

Make sure you see the dog demo'd doing what YOU want to use it for, and make sure you see it on game, preferably in a strange environment for the dog.

 

Also, cockercas, if you haven't had time to finish training your current cocker, your expensive trained dog will become an expensive untrained dog in a short space of time if you don't do any "maintenance".

[pegleg31]

I know a fairly decent spaniel trainer who makes it to the cocker/springer championships every year. Trust me you won't be getting a 'trail winning dog' you might be paying over the odds for a 'well trained' dog but if it was trial standard the bloke would be keeping it. As WGD has said if you have if you haven't had the time to train your bitch your new trained dog will go down hill fast. Having said that I've seen some of my mates dogs that haven't quite made the grade and he's let some good dogs go. Out of interest who you thinking of buying a dog off?

[GW80]

Out of interest just how much is the dog? I know of good springers that just aren't up to pace for trials going for £500. And they will make dam fine shooting dogs.

[straightbarrel]

I know a fairly decent spaniel trainer who makes it to the cocker/springer championships every year. Trust me you won't be getting a 'trail winning dog' you might be paying over the odds for a 'well trained' dog but if it was trial standard the bloke would be keeping it.

 

Not true. The poster says he's after a dog "trained to field trial standard" not a field trial champion or even a field trial winner.There are many dogs for sale that are 'field trial standard', meaning they have the ability to compete in field trials.This does not necessarilly mean they need to be FTCh's or FTW's. Some sellers of dogs that are field trial standard dogs, often sell when they think they cant take the dog any further regarding success in field trials. This does not mean the dog is a dud or not worth buying. As WGD points out, it's probably wise that the OP asks himself what he wants from a spaniel. I would also be concerned that the OP has planned a litter of pups from a bitch, presumeably to be sold as gundogs, that, by his own admission, is an unknown quantity as far as being a working bitch is concerned.

[WGD]

I would also be concerned that the OP has planned a litter of pups from a bitch, presumeably to be sold as gundogs, that, by his own admission, is an unknown quantity as far as being a working bitch is concerned.

 

Perhaps harsh, but a very to the point and true observation to make

[pegleg31]

Not true. The poster says he's after a dog "trained to field trial standard" not a field trial champion or even a field trial winner.There are many dogs for sale that are 'field trial standard', meaning they have the ability to compete in field trials.This does not necessarilly mean they need to be FTCh's or FTW's. Some sellers of dogs that are field trial standard dogs, often sell when they think they cant take the dog any further regarding success in field trials. This does not mean the dog is a dud or not worth buying. As WGD points out, it's probably wise that the OP asks himself what he wants from a spaniel. I would also be concerned that the OP has planned a litter of pups from a bitch, presumeably to be sold as gundogs, that, by his own admission, is an unknown quantity as far as being a working bitch is concerned.

 

To be fair though anyone that has a KC registered dog and joins a club can run in a trial so the standard is great. Like i said in my previous post i've seen some of the dogs my mates let go and they're electric but don't tick all the boxes for him

[straightbarrel]

To be fair though anyone that has a KC registered dog and joins a club can run in a trial so the standard is great. Like i said in my previous post i've seen some of the dogs my mates let go and they're electric but don't tick all the boxes for him

Exactly what I'm saying mate. Just because a dog is not in the top 2 percent of trial dogs in the country does not mean a field trial dog can not be a good all round gundog. Equally, there are many well trained and capable dogs out there that will never see a field trial, but buying a dog that is advertised as 'field trial standard', you would be expecting a dog that was very capable, although not necessarily a field trial champion or even field trial winner.

 

Dig deep though for something like this...

 

[GW80]

Exactly what I'm saying mate. Just because a dog is not in the top 2 percent of trial dogs in the country does not mean a field trial dog can not be a good all round gundog. Equally, there are many well trained and capable dogs out there that will never see a field trial, but buying a dog that is advertised as 'field trial standard', you would be expecting a dog that was very capable, although not necessarily a field trial champion or even field trial winner.

 

Dig deep though for something like this...

 

I have a bitch that has the same sire Broc as this dog, most intelligent and calmest young dog i have ever had the pleasure of owning. She is only 15 months and i have had her on a days beating without any trouble and she also did a wee bit of picking up last weekend. She won't make trials but is going to make a fantastic wee shooting dog.

[cocker boy]

I know a fairly decent spaniel trainer who makes it to the cocker/springer championships every year. Trust me you won't be getting a 'trail winning dog' you might be paying over the odds for a 'well trained' dog but if it was trial standard the bloke would be keeping it. As WGD has said if you have if you haven't had the time to train your bitch your new trained dog will go down hill fast. Having said that I've seen some of my mates dogs that haven't quite made the grade and he's let some good dogs go. Out of interest who you thinking of buying a dog off?

The best kennels may sell a dog that they dont think will win the championship. So you CAN buy a dog that will a trial. Just make sure you buy from the best proven kennels

[cockercas]

The only reason my bitch isn't full trained is because I let her down. I run out of time to train her because business was booming and in my work you take it while its ther. Most of my bitchs pedigree is ftch iirc ther is 40 somthing

[cockercas]

And the ony reason I bred from her was because she past the health tests. Now I bet you can count the number of cockers with a proven bill of health on one hand. One top breeder recommended of here said to me. Why bother its a spaniel.

 

And the price tag of the dog I'm looking at is £2500

[cockercas]

And another thing I never said to what extent my dog was trained. I work her she is just not as good as would like her to be. I have quite high standards

[cocker boy]

And the ony reason I bred from her was because she past the health tests. Now I bet you can count the number of cockers with a proven bill of health on one hand. One top breeder recommended of here said to me. Why bother its a spaniel.

 

And the price tag of the dog I'm looking at is £2500

Ftrial standard is not enough to justify £2500 for a dog.I know one cocker dog that has had two 3rds in open trials that is up for £2500.

[kermitpwee]

And the ony reason I bred from her was because she past the health tests. Now I bet you can count the number of cockers with a proven bill of health on one hand. One top breeder recommended of here said to me. Why bother its a spaniel.

 

And the price tag of the dog I'm looking at is £2500

 

 

Don't worry about the comments mate. You don't need to fully train a bitch to know that she is worth breeding from. If your bitch is hunting, is biddable ie can learn commands and takes to it well, is retrieving and does the basics then anybody with a brain can tell she is worth breeding from and of course not gun shy which is quite rare anyway.

 

If the dog is 2500 it should be top class, have a look and you will know, as I said it should blow you away. If you can afford a polished spaniel why should you deny yourself. You will be long enough dead.

The trained dog I bought cost 2000 euro and still gives me pleasure and has made shooting game a delight.

[straightbarrel]

Don't worry about the comments mate. You don't need to fully train a bitch to know that she is worth breeding from.

 

Depends on what you are calling worth breeding from and for what reason. It also depends on what someone would classify as "fully train"

 

Quite honestly, most would want to know that the bitch is capable of reaching the fully trained stage. The OP is trying to do his homework on buying a field trial standard dog, at a price. He will have the benefit of seeing the dog work. Is it fair to say that someone willing to spend £500-£600 on a pup that they will have to feed and care for, for the thick end of one year(through the basic stuff), is likely to want to know that the dam or sire, preferably both, are well capable of performing to the required standard? Whatever that standard might be.

 

Cockercas,

 

Good luck with your purchase, I hope you get what you want at the right price, and good luck with the litter mate.

Edited October 28, 2011 by straightbarrel

[GW80]

You need you head looking at if you are willing to pay that for a dog, I'll sell you 2 and ship them for a lot less.

[kermitpwee]

Depends on what you are calling worth breeding from and for what reason. It also depends on what someone would classify as "fully train"

 

Quite honestly, most would want to know that the bitch is capable of reaching the fully trained stage. The OP is trying to do his homework on buying a field trial standard dog, at a price. He will have the benefit of seeing the dog work. Is it fair to say that someone willing to spend £500-£600 on a pup that they will have to feed and care for, for the thick end of one year(through the basic stuff), is likely to want to know that the dam or sire, preferably both, are well capable of performing to the required standard? Whatever that standard might be.

 

Cockercas,

 

Good luck with your purchase, I hope you get what you want at the right price, and good luck with the litter mate.

 

I don't see why anybody would have to see that both parents are 'capable of reaching the fully trained stage' to know that the parents are good dogs. For example I have a 11 month old cocker that I have been training for the last 3 months. The dog did not even know his own name at 8 months thats how raw the dog was. The dog is now retrieving dummies land and water and fur, 100% on recall, hup, stop whistle and is hunting his ground close and in a nice pattern. The dog is starting to take to cover and has a very good nose for hidden dummies with scent on them. He has been shot over last week and I have shot 2 snipe over him which he has delivered to hand.

I will not be trialing the dog but will shoot over him myself and am surprised how far the training has progressed in such a short time, at no time have I pushed the dog he is just very curious and smart. I do not need to progress and further to know that this is an excellent spaniel, I know that he will be worth breeding from without further training him. I would assume that the op has at least as much training done as I have or am I wrong?