straightbarrel Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) I don't see why anybody would have to see that both parents are 'capable of reaching the fully trained stage' to know that the parents are good dogs. For example I have a 11 month old cocker that I have been training for the last 3 months. The dog did not even know his own name at 8 months thats how raw the dog was. The dog is now retrieving dummies land and water and fur, 100% on recall, hup, stop whistle and is hunting his ground close and in a nice pattern. The dog is starting to take to cover and has a very good nose for hidden dummies with scent on them. He has been shot over last week and I have shot 2 snipe over him which he has delivered to hand.I will not be trialing the dog but will shoot over him myself and am surprised how far the training has progressed in such a short time, at no time have I pushed the dog he is just very curious and smart. I do not need to progress and further to know that this is an excellent spaniel, I know that he will be worth breeding from without further training him. I would assume that the op has at least as much training done as I have or am I wrong? First things first mate. Unless both dogs had some recorded history as decent dogs ( sire and dam,and even that, these days, is open to individual interperetation), you would want to know the sire and dam capabilities. As you are a keen reader of Joe Irving books on training spaniels,you will be well aware that a trainer with a dog of 8 months that has not been given a name, is, in his opinion, not a trainer of spaniels, more a breaker. I have to agree. They deserve more respect than that! Regarding your 11 month old cocker that didn't have it's name until it was eight months old, that you have shot 2 snipe over: my mother has a Yorkshire Terrier I have done more with. I've had it retrieving Canada geese mate and pushing all kinds of feather and fur, doesen't mean it is worth £2500 and of field trial standard. On your third and last point...you may "assume", (your words), the the OP has as much training done as you, but I suspect not, given his very honest and genuine post saying he did not have the time for his cocker bitch. Edited October 29, 2011 by straightbarrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 I don't see why anybody would have to see that both parents are 'capable of reaching the fully trained stage' to know that the parents are good dogs. For example I have a 11 month old cocker that I have been training for the last 3 months. The dog did not even know his own name at 8 months thats how raw the dog was. The dog is now retrieving dummies land and water and fur, 100% on recall, hup, stop whistle and is hunting his ground close and in a nice pattern. The dog is starting to take to cover and has a very good nose for hidden dummies with scent on them. He has been shot over last week and I have shot 2 snipe over him which he has delivered to hand. I will not be trialing the dog but will shoot over him myself and am surprised how far the training has progressed in such a short time, at no time have I pushed the dog he is just very curious and smart. I do not need to progress and further to know that this is an excellent spaniel, I know that he will be worth breeding from without further training him. I would assume that the op has at least as much training done as I have or am I wrong? All in 3 months?. Very good. You should go trialling pal because openshaw takes longer to get his dogs to that stage and he is the best in the country. Or was the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan_J Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 I would suggest the op go look at a few dogs put through their paces and even shot over if possible. I'd personally want to see how steady it was around game and how far out it quartered and if it picked backs and blinds. I wouldnt discount part trained if you are going to put a bit of time in. Like all dogs you will have to get your relationship right with it and spend awhile learning what the dog can do and the commands I know many go out trained to come back ruined as far as I could guess it was the owners that needed training. If you are interested pm me and I can put you in touch with a trainer up here who may be ablw to help. Atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 You need you head looking at if you are willing to pay that for a dog, I'll sell you 2 and ship them for a lot less. yep but he is after a high standard shooting dog, if you buy one its going to cost that amount. Look at the costs of buying a pup keeping it for 2 years and training it and you will see its not done for the profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 First things first mate. Unless both dogs had some recorded history as decent dogs ( sire and dam,and even that, these days, is open to individual interperetation), you would want to know the sire and dam capabilities. As you are a keen reader of Joe Irving books on training spaniels,you will be well aware that a trainer with a dog of 8 months that has not been given a name, is, in his opinion, not a trainer of spaniels, more a breaker. I have to agree. They deserve more respect than that! Regarding your 11 month old cocker that didn't have it's name until it was eight months old, that you have shot 2 snipe over: my mother has a Yorkshire Terrier I have done more with. I've had it retrieving Canada geese mate and pushing all kinds of feather and fur, doesen't mean it is worth £2500 and of field trial standard. On your third and last point...you may "assume", (your words), the the OP has as much training done as you, but I suspect not, given his very honest and genuine post saying he did not have the time for his cocker bitch. oh thats nothing i have a 3mnth old pup that has been doing the accounts here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW80 Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 yep but he is after a high standard shooting dog, if you buy one its going to cost that amount. Look at the costs of buying a pup keeping it for 2 years and training it and you will see its not done for the profit. I know of a field trial winning dog sold for less than a grand maybe we're just soft over here. £2500 lot of money for a dog to just shoot over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitpwee Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 All in 3 months?. Very good. You should go trialling pal because openshaw takes longer to get his dogs to that stage and he is the best in the country. Or was the best. Openshaw is my idol mate, I train my dogs for rough shooting, openshaw trains his dog for total obedience in a heated trial. Openshaw therefore does it in a slower manner of conditional training that once the dog is trained will have a significantly less chance of letting him down on the day. My dogs once they get training dont let me down but as every one knows one must always be on guard with a spaniel. I have only started to train dogs in the last 2 years but feel I am doing well. The 11 month dog I have is doing all I have said earlier and in fairness he has melinbrook evita, merlinbrook vinca, and badgercourt warlord in his recent pedigree so I have good breeding to start with, he also is very smart and wants to please. Due to the nature of my work I am free from 8am to 4pm everyday so I can spend a lot of time with the dog. In training at the moment I have a 11 month ESS, 14 month Cocker, 16 month Sprocker(stubborn ******!) and a 20 month Ess. I am no pro by any means but am doing well at what I love. I have taken my time with the oldest Ess and there is no doubt he is steadier as a result. I have learn't a lot and I am learning more everyday, it's hard work mastering a spaniel, I am lucky in that I have a desire for it more than most men. Thanks to all who have posted to me. Regards Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitpwee Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) First things first mate. Unless both dogs had some recorded history as decent dogs ( sire and dam,and even that, these days, is open to individual interperetation), you would want to know the sire and dam capabilities. As you are a keen reader of Joe Irving books on training spaniels,you will be well aware that a trainer with a dog of 8 months that has not been given a name, is, in his opinion, not a trainer of spaniels, more a breaker. I have to agree. They deserve more respect than that! Regarding your 11 month old cocker that didn't have it's name until it was eight months old, that you have shot 2 snipe over: my mother has a Yorkshire Terrier I have done more with. I've had it retrieving Canada geese mate and pushing all kinds of feather and fur, doesen't mean it is worth £2500 and of field trial standard. On your third and last point...you may "assume", (your words), the the OP has as much training done as you, but I suspect not, given his very honest and genuine post saying he did not have the time for his cocker bitch. How dare you suggest that I am a breaker of spaniels. That dog that didn't have a name till he was 8 months was bought by me at 8 months after I saw the horrible conditions he was living in, I didn't expect him to flourish but he has. You could do with getting some manners before you post again. At no stage did I suggest that My ESS was worth 2500, secondly if you have a Yorkshire Terrier that you have shot over then good for you. I am delighted that your getting use and enjoyment out of your mothers Terrier. Edited October 29, 2011 by kermitpwee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straightbarrel Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) First things first mate. Unless both dogs had some recorded history as decent dogs ( sire and dam,and even that, these days, is open to individual interperetation), you would want to know the sire and dam capabilities. As you are a keen reader of Joe Irving books on training spaniels,you will be well aware that a trainer with a dog of 8 months that has not been given a name, is, in his opinion, not a trainer of spaniels, more a breaker. I have to agree. They deserve more respect than that!Regarding your 11 month old cocker that didn't have it's name until it was eight months old, that you have shot 2 snipe over: my mother has a Yorkshire Terrier I have done more with. I've had it retrieving Canada geese mate and pushing all kinds of feather and fur, doesen't mean it is worth £2500 and of field trial standard. If you dont mind me asking A where did I say you said your dog was worth 2500 & why were you not clearer in your original post regarding the cocker that didn't know it's name ? Let's hope the OP's purchase knows a bit more than it's name for £2500, in fact I would want it telling me the six numbers for tonights lotto for that kind of money!!! I know of a yorky terrier going cheap, well trained, soft mouth (most of the time) retrieves to hand (if you are a dwarf),is reasonably quiet when working ( bit yappy now an then ) good all round shooting dog, probably not quite up to trial standard but a well trained dog anyway. Edited October 29, 2011 by straightbarrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straightbarrel Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 oh thats nothing i have a 3mnth old pup that has been doing the accounts here suppose he'll be going through the spread-sheeeet stage at the moment. He'll be spreading it everywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 suppose he'll be going through the spread-sheeeet stage at the moment. He'll be spreading it everywhere! Oh no he "wipes" and "flushes" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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