xX Hunter UK Xx Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 doing pest and vermin control and gamekeeping and being sighned off on 500 ackres of land and need to get a first rifle but i want for rabbits and foxes and to have a bit of range to and dose not matter about the noise want .17 hmr but been told the fire arms guy round my area dose not like .17 but only have a budget of £300 for gun and will spend a bit of money on the scopes so any suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 It dosent matter if your local flo likes the 17 or not, what you want to be asking is do they allow it for fox. If so apply for 1 simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 but been told the fire arms guy round my area dose not like .17 He may not like em, but if have a good reason there is no excuse for him to not give you one. kent may not allow it for fox though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 My Firearms dept (Gloucester) had no problem with HMR for fox, then they did, then they did'nt again, then they were'nt sure, then it was ok. The last time I sent my license in for extra ammo on my centrefires they had taken the fox condition off the hmr, on questioning them about they said they had new guidelines on hmr, basically I don't think anyone in the FA dept has much of an idea about hmrs so its made up as they go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 How about a .22WMR? They're better for Fox apparently and will give you decent range on the bunnies. I would say get a Hornet but for £300 you may struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 HO Guidelines do not list the HMR as a suitable calibre for fox. Rarely do you get an FEO who appreciates that they have the stopping power. £300 will get you most guns, albeit 10th hand in some circumstances, but it's still enough to get a rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 just don't ask for fox, as BASC published recently ask for one for vermin control. There hasn't been a case where a firearms unit has argued whether foxes are vermin or not but it would seem BASC are confident it wouldn't stand up in court. Ask the question and they can say no, the caliber is perfectly capable at sensible ranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Question is it police or civilian staff that deal with firearms applications in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 22.250 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 My recently granted licence states ground game and vermin. I assume that vermin includes fox or they might just aswell have stated rabbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 22.250 ? For a first gun though? I'd go down the vermin route for the HMR - better chance. Actually I take that back, ask for both and a .22LR for quiet stuff at night while you're at it. The FEO doesn't have to know how much you have to spend and it'll indicate you are serious about it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 If the FEO is MS, then you may have dificulty in getting a .17HMR for fox, maybe .22WMR, .22 Hornet better bet,but as said,with only £300 you will struggle to find one. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 HO Guidelines do not list the HMR as a suitable calibre for fox. Rarely do you get an FEO who appreciates that they have the stopping power. £300 will get you most guns, albeit 10th hand in some circumstances, but it's still enough to get a rifle. Billy...as far as I recall the Home Office Guidelines don't mention HMR at all, that is because it was a pretty new/unknown quantity during the preparation of the last guide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Question is it police or civilian staff that deal with firearms applications in England. If his FEO is the same as mine,then he's an ex policeman. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 My recently granted licence states ground game and vermin. I assume that vermin includes fox or they might just aswell have stated rabbit. Well nobody in the powers to be seems to know, my FEO told that fox are not covered under vermin and I think there is something in the Home Office Guidelines to the Police on the same lines.BASC disagree stating fox are covered under vermin and there has never been a conviction on these grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Guys People are going off all over the place here, lets stop the debate. It doesn't matter a jot what the FEO likes or not, if you have the appropriate need, and fulfil the legal requirements he is in no position to argue. I fully understand the reluctance of many people to question a FEO, but many need a kick up the **** and straightening out. Do not stand for any bull, and if they refuse something (or suggest they are likely too) then QUESTION THEM, don't just roll over and get shafted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 "The .22 rifle (bla, bla), .17HMR (bla, bla)and the ammo shall be used for shooting vermin (bla, bla, bla) on land deemed suitable (bla, bla)." I see a bucket of worms here OR, do I have an FEO with a brain who accepts I have one too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Guys People are going off all over the place here, lets stop the debate. It doesn't matter a jot what the FEO likes or not, if you have the appropriate need, and fulfil the legal requirements he is in no position to argue. I fully understand the reluctance of many people to question a FEO, but many need a kick up the **** and straightening out. Do not stand for any bull, and if they refuse something (or suggest they are likely too) then QUESTION THEM, don't just roll over and get shafted! Dekers I do not think its up to you to 'stop the debate', you have your little rant about how you see it but don't wind people up and get the post closed which so often happens. We are sharing our experiences from various policing locations on the posted topic. Facts are that the Gloucester FA dept took fox off my hmr, I questioned it and was told they had a change of policy, do you think it will change things if I ring them tomorrow and say Dekers off PW says yr wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 As I said in a previous post,if the FEO is the one I think it is,then the chances of getting a .17 hmr,are VERY slim as the FEO sticks to the letter of the guide lines,and .17hmr isn't on there for fox. I've had plenty of run-ins with him,he's fair,BUT a stickler for the 'book'. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 If you have good reason for pest/vermin control,then put that down.If you have problems,consult your shooting org',that's what they're there for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Billy...as far as I recall the Home Office Guidelines don't mention HMR at all, that is because it was a pretty new/unknown quantity during the preparation of the last guide! I understand why you've bolded the 'guidelines' bit and yes, it now doesn't state HMR. However, whilst they may only guidelines, you have to remember that the vast majority of FEOs are just police officers who have worked up through the ranks and made it to a niche role. They will look on it as their bible. If it says (in previous editions) that it's recommended that HMR is not good for foxes, they'll use that when people apply for an HMR for foxes. They have the right to go against this 'guidance' but a lot of them will just want to follow the book as it would mean that their backside was covered if anything went wrong - say for example if an Anti managed to get a video of a shooter who only has HMR for fox on video and he's filmed shooting and injuring a fox which gets away. Does he want the grief that would follow, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Don't all rush to answer my earlier question. Anyway i dont see what the debate is about it is irrelevant what the FEO likes or doesn't like. Its just his job is to check every thing is lawful. You dont ask him to allow you a firearm of a certain caliber, you tell him what firearm you want and in what caliber. Some guys get a bit of power and it goes to their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Anyway i dont see what the debate is about it is irrelevant what the FEO likes or doesn't like. Its just his job is to check every thing is lawful. You dont ask him to allow you a firearm of a certain caliber, you tell him what firearm you want and in what caliber. Some guys get a bit of power and it goes to their heads. Clearly you don't understand that what goes in one County, doesn't go in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Clearly you don't understand that what goes in one County, doesn't go in another. I thing the law requiring firearms is similar in this part of the UK. Apart form the law regarding handguns and air rifles. The FEO that i deal with doesn't have any interest in firearms its just a job as long as everything is in order then you get your gun simple. They are not doing you a favour letting you have a firearm. If you can show need and there is no lawful reason not to give you one then under the law you have the right to owne a firearm. Edited November 21, 2011 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I thing the law requiring firearms is similar in this part of the UK. Apart form the law regarding handguns and air rifles. The FEO that i deal with doesn't have any interest in firearms its just a job as long as everything is in order then you get your gun simple. That's the point. If you have an FEO who doesn't have an interest, they'll probably follow the HO Guidance as a minimum standard. If you're lucky and have an FEO who is either a shooter or just has an understanding of what's what then you'll be allowed to bend the rules. Most of the Herts massive seem to get it all in terms of allowances, calibres and quarry, whereas another county will have you up to your neck in conditions and rules. Take the Open ticket situation. I got mine opened in a year - no issues. I was 20, I had two HMRs, two LRs and a 22-250. Some people have had their licence for decades and the FEO will shy away from opening a ticket. Does a law exist for 'closing' a ticket, no, it's all down to discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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