Barrel Wear

[The Bear]

Respond ONLY if you have shot out a barrel.

 

I dont want to hear any "My Mate did...blah blah blah" answers either, Direct experience of your OWN GUNS ONLY is what is required here!

 

Calibre

Make/Model

Stainless or Blued Chromoly Steel Barrel

Number of rounds

Average shots per outing

Cleaning regime

Factory/Handloads

 

And FRANK, do not even start having a 22-250 slagging contest...................... otherwise you will set of my left brain lobe....Fister :yp:

[Mungler]

Ooooh hark Mr. Angry-No-Manners...

 

If anyone has the answer, make him say "please" before providing it

[dunganick]

i think 'the bear' is just prooving a point that some on this forum are a bit quick to believe everything they hear without actually having any first hand experiance to back it up.

 

I might not agree with everything 'the bear' or fister says (particually regarding cz's ) but on this one i do agree with him. Barrel wear is more of an urban myth spread so people can justify not buying a 22-250.

 

Ive never had a burnt out barrel so cant comment. But my old man has several rifles which work hard and have a good few thousand through them, and they still shoot straight, hense my belief this is a myth.

 

I look forward to seeing the results of this thread.

[The Bear]

Thanks Nick.

Mungler, thanks for proving the old adage "If all else fails, read the instructions"

[Frank]

Miffy. :yp:

[mry716]

Hi

I have two examples and they are both Remington 700s and both purchased new by myself.

 

I am afraid I do not have exact details as requested as I never bother to keep them so what I am reporting is not very scientific.

 

The first was a 243 Mountain Rifle. It was originally bought for my wife for range use but i tended to use it far more than she did for both hare and fox. I tried all sorts of heads but tended to have three loads, Nosler 70gn HP ( match or standard ) and used 36-38grns H4895 at 2.61 OAL and later on Nosler 100grn SP over 46-47grns H4831 @ 2.7 OAL when I tried it on Fallow. My favourite load and the most accurate was Nosler 70gn B/Tip which would take hares at 300yds all day. This was with Rem cases, 45-46 grns of H4350 CCI 200 primers @ 2.73" OAL. The different loads were for summer / winter shooting to try to achieve similar trajectories.

The rifle was sold on as an action for rebarreling due to throat erosion at around 7000+ rounds. My records show 7704 having been loaded but i know there were some rounds scrapped after the sale. That was over a period of 9 years.

 

The other rifle is my 308 that I am actually still using. That was bought in June 1990 and has now probably seen around 9000 rounds though it. I have a new barrel for it but due to playing around with other rifles have yet to complete the job. I am afraid i just don’t keep the records I used to and I tend to reload as needed without recording so the total usage could be as low as 7000 or as high as 9500.

 

 

It has really always shot Nosler 150gn B/Tips and all out of the same batch as I bought 15,000 at the right price from the US back in 1988 along with 1000s of others in all sorts of calibres. I have just loaded my last box and have about 6-700 hand loaded rounds in hand. Between the two 308s (I always have at least one more 30 cal of one make or another) I have shot a fair few rounds through them as I have also used Speer and Nosler SP heads.

 

The Rem 700 was one of those rifles that gave excellent results from day one. The load I have always used winter and summer is 45.5gns of R12, under a 150gr B/Tip head using Federal Benchrest primers and Lapua cases which are only neck sized 4 times then thrown away. OAL is 2.82"

 

The first time I took this load out, I tried it at 200yds as I had set up a 200yd target up for another rifle. I shot a 3 shot group all holes touching and for a 5 shot group the additional two shots were less than 1/4" away. I didn’t bother with any other of the trial loads but have kept to one that ever since.

 

Performance has dropped off these last two years (since around the 6000 mark ?) and now given a good day I reckon I get one flyer in 5 (2-3") and the rest will only group around 2" at 100yds so it will not be used again on a live target until rebarrelled.

 

For 90% of its life it has had a muzzle brake fitted and is a real pussy cat to shoot. Recoil is well less than a 243 and it can and has easily been fired in one hand at arms length.

 

As an additional piece of information I also have a Ruger No1 in 22-250. I have had this for ages and again have not really kept count of homeloads after May 2000. BUT up to that date I had used 4289 rounds and since then I have used 3-400 per year on hares. That approximates with a total of around 6600 rounds. It will still hold a 2-2.5” group at 300yds if I do my part of the job and remember that this is through a rifle in a calibre that is not known for its long barrel life. Yes it is not quite as good as it should be but it’s still more than useable for the task in hand. (Albeit that I have been using my new 25WSSM a little this year)

 

My load has always been the same - 36 grns of H380 under a 55grn Nosler B/Tip head in Rem cases using CCI 250 primers and an AOL of 2.475”

 

I hope this gives you a little more insight into an actual experience of barrel wear timespan and usage levels.

[dazza]

well I've never shot out my barrell so I won't respond

[MC]

I have never shot out a barrel either but I am going to respond.

 

All barrels will wear to a certain degree, thye have to as there is metal to metal contact every time they are fired. This is obviously different from calibre to calibre and load to load.

 

A 7.62 bullet has more surface area touching the barrel than a .223. It also has more power behind and travels faster. All rifle bullets are spinning as well. It all depends on how much they are shot. quality of barrel and ammo, cleaning regime etc.

 

Also after the first shot there will be deposits of burnt powder in the barrel, the next round will use this as an abrasive.

 

My father shot fullbore target rifles competetively in the early 70's and had several rifles rebarreled to maintain accuracy.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[dunganick]

Hi

I have two examples and they are both Remington 700s and both purchased new by myself.

 

I am afraid I do not have exact details as requested as I never bother to keep them so what I am reporting is not very scientific.

 

The first was a 243 Mountain Rifle. It was originally bought for my wife for range use but i tended to use it far more than she did for both hare and fox. I tried all sorts of heads but tended to have three loads, Nosler 70gn HP ( match or standard ) and used 36-38grns H4895 at 2.61 OAL and later on Nosler 100grn SP over 46-47grns H4831 @ 2.7 OAL when I tried it on Fallow. My favourite load and the most accurate was Nosler 70gn B/Tip which would take hares at 300yds all day. This was with Rem cases, 45-46 grns of H4350 CCI 200 primers @ 2.73" OAL. The different loads were for summer / winter shooting to try to achieve similar trajectories.

The rifle was sold on as an action for rebarreling due to throat erosion at around 7000+ rounds. My records show 7704 having been loaded but i know there were some rounds scrapped after the sale. That was over a period of 9 years.

 

The other rifle is my 308 that I am actually still using. That was bought in June 1990 and has now probably seen around 9000 rounds though it. I have a new barrel for it but due to playing around with other rifles have yet to complete the job. I am afraid i just don’t keep the records I used to and I tend to reload as needed without recording so the total usage could be as low as 7000 or as high as 9500.

 

 

It has really always shot Nosler 150gn B/Tips and all out of the same batch as I bought 15,000 at the right price from the US back in 1988 along with 1000s of others in all sorts of calibres. I have just loaded my last box and have about 6-700 hand loaded rounds in hand. Between the two 308s (I always have at least one more 30 cal of one make or another) I have shot a fair few rounds through them as I have also used Speer and Nosler SP heads.

 

The Rem 700 was one of those rifles that gave excellent results from day one. The load I have always used winter and summer is 45.5gns of R12, under a 150gr B/Tip head using Federal Benchrest primers and Lapua cases which are only neck sized 4 times then thrown away. OAL is 2.82"

 

The first time I took this load out, I tried it at 200yds as I had set up a 200yd target up for another rifle. I shot a 3 shot group all holes touching and for a 5 shot group the additional two shots were less than 1/4" away. I didn’t bother with any other of the trial loads but have kept to one that ever since.

 

Performance has dropped off these last two years (since around the 6000 mark ?) and now given a good day I reckon I get one flyer in 5 (2-3") and the rest will only group around 2" at 100yds so it will not be used again on a live target until rebarrelled.

 

For 90% of its life it has had a muzzle brake fitted and is a real pussy cat to shoot. Recoil is well less than a 243 and it can and has easily been fired in one hand at arms length.

 

As an additional piece of information I also have a Ruger No1 in 22-250. I have had this for ages and again have not really kept count of homeloads after May 2000. BUT up to that date I had used 4289 rounds and since then I have used 3-400 per year on hares. That approximates with a total of around 6600 rounds. It will still hold a 2-2.5” group at 300yds if I do my part of the job and remember that this is through a rifle in a calibre that is not known for its long barrel life. Yes it is not quite as good as it should be but it’s still more than useable for the task in hand. (Albeit that I have been using my new 25WSSM a little this year)

 

My load has always been the same - 36 grns of H380 under a 55grn Nosler B/Tip head in Rem cases using CCI 250 primers and an AOL of 2.475”

 

I hope this gives you a little more insight into an actual experience of barrel wear timespan and usage levels.

 

 

In both of your examples they needed rebarreling through fair useage not running high velocity rounds.

 

I dont think we will discover the cause of barrels being shot out, other than high velocity is not to blame as much as people would like to believe (granted it will be partially to blame)

 

I suspect things like barrel quality will come into play, and i expect CZ will fair very well in this as i am told they use very high quality barrels (not starting the cz debate again)

[Frank]

Hi

I have two examples and they are both Remington 700s and both purchased new by myself.

 

I am afraid I do not have exact details as requested as I never bother to keep them so what I am reporting is not very scientific.

 

The first was a 243 Mountain Rifle. It was originally bought for my wife for range use but i tended to use it far more than she did for both hare and fox. I tried all sorts of heads but tended to have three loads, Nosler 70gn HP ( match or standard ) and used 36-38grns H4895 at 2.61 OAL and later on Nosler 100grn SP over 46-47grns H4831 @ 2.7 OAL when I tried it on Fallow. My favourite load and the most accurate was Nosler 70gn B/Tip which would take hares at 300yds all day. This was with Rem cases, 45-46 grns of H4350 CCI 200 primers @ 2.73" OAL. The different loads were for summer / winter shooting to try to achieve similar trajectories.

The rifle was sold on as an action for rebarreling due to throat erosion at around 7000+ rounds. My records show 7704 having been loaded but i know there were some rounds scrapped after the sale. That was over a period of 9 years.

 

The other rifle is my 308 that I am actually still using. That was bought in June 1990 and has now probably seen around 9000 rounds though it. I have a new barrel for it but due to playing around with other rifles have yet to complete the job. I am afraid i just don’t keep the records I used to and I tend to reload as needed without recording so the total usage could be as low as 7000 or as high as 9500.

 

 

It has really always shot Nosler 150gn B/Tips and all out of the same batch as I bought 15,000 at the right price from the US back in 1988 along with 1000s of others in all sorts of calibres. I have just loaded my last box and have about 6-700 hand loaded rounds in hand. Between the two 308s (I always have at least one more 30 cal of one make or another) I have shot a fair few rounds through them as I have also used Speer and Nosler SP heads.

 

The Rem 700 was one of those rifles that gave excellent results from day one. The load I have always used winter and summer is 45.5gns of R12, under a 150gr B/Tip head using Federal Benchrest primers and Lapua cases which are only neck sized 4 times then thrown away. OAL is 2.82"

 

The first time I took this load out, I tried it at 200yds as I had set up a 200yd target up for another rifle. I shot a 3 shot group all holes touching and for a 5 shot group the additional two shots were less than 1/4" away. I didn’t bother with any other of the trial loads but have kept to one that ever since.

 

Performance has dropped off these last two years (since around the 6000 mark ?) and now given a good day I reckon I get one flyer in 5 (2-3") and the rest will only group around 2" at 100yds so it will not be used again on a live target until rebarrelled.

 

For 90% of its life it has had a muzzle brake fitted and is a real pussy cat to shoot. Recoil is well less than a 243 and it can and has easily been fired in one hand at arms length.

 

As an additional piece of information I also have a Ruger No1 in 22-250. I have had this for ages and again have not really kept count of homeloads after May 2000. BUT up to that date I had used 4289 rounds and since then I have used 3-400 per year on hares. That approximates with a total of around 6600 rounds. It will still hold a 2-2.5” group at 300yds if I do my part of the job and remember that this is through a rifle in a calibre that is not known for its long barrel life. Yes it is not quite as good as it should be but it’s still more than useable for the task in hand. (Albeit that I have been using my new 25WSSM a little this year)

 

My load has always been the same - 36 grns of H380 under a 55grn Nosler B/Tip head in Rem cases using CCI 250 primers and an AOL of 2.475”

 

I hope this gives you a little more insight into an actual experience of barrel wear timespan and usage levels.

 

Very intersting Mry

As a matter of interest, what cleaning method did you use? thanks.

Frank.

[Slipster]

Im going to reply Im 47 and my barrel is still firing on all cylinders, even though she made me have the operation and know I only fire blanks, But they still go with a bang

 

Soory about that Ill go and get on with the washing up :yp:

[dazza]

:yp:

[mry716]

Martin Cavie (and others)

 

Yes barrels will wear from abrasion but the amount is so insignificant that it has no real effect on lifespan.

 

The main problem with a barrel being shot out is because of the way in which the hot gasses ‘burn’ away the metal in the bore just where the bullet starts its journey. This leaves a progressively bigger ‘gap’ between bullet and barrel and allows even more of the gasses to pass in front of the bullet so causing more of the burning effect. This is why a barrel that is starting to show signs of throat erosion will be far nearer the end of its life than one would expect from the rate of previous erosion.

 

Dunganick

 

Actually high velocity IS the main cause of short barrel life and is the reason the faster rounds ‘burn’ the barrels in a shorter time that the slower rounds.

 

Eg Take a 220 Swift compared to the 7x57 and the 7mm will probably, given all other factors being equal, give a 10x greater lifespan. Unfortunately other factors are never equal so the comparison is immediately flawed.

 

But use a 22-250 as I do with a load that is a good 5% below max for my rifle and the life of the barrel is extended many fold, far more than the 5% I choose to loose. I also get better accuracy with these loads than those that are ‘stoked up’ to maximum. The reason is simple – the gases from the burning powder are never quite so hot or under quite so much pressure to try to get to the lands before the bullet.

 

One other aspect that some reloaders do not consider but one they really should, is the primer. Some powders burn ‘better’ with a hotter primer other with a cooler primer. Ball powder such as the H380 I use in the 22-250 needs a hotter primer because it is packed so densely and therefore I use a magnum primer. This allows the powder charge to be ignited more evenly and burn from the bottom of the case upwards rather than in a fiery column in the centre of the charge to the base of the bullet. It therefore means the charge burns fully instead of leaving any unburnt powder residue. I often hear of people who say this or that powder is no good in their rifle – look at the large muzzle flash. In many instances (assuming correct powder burning rate for the cal) a hotter primer will solve the problem and along with it a greatly reduce barrel wear rate.

 

Frank

 

After ‘running in’ any new barrel they really only get cleaned once a year, off season.

 

This is with a reverse electroplating process manufactured by ‘Outers’

http://www.gunaccessories.com/Outers/FoulOut.asp

 

That being said if I feel there is a need I do give them a clean at any point in time I do so. So lets say for the Rem 308 once a year with Foul Out and twice more conventionally in any 2 year period.

 

The 243 was cleaned more often because of the constant change of ammo and rezeroing needed.

 

The 22-250 was cleaned once last Apr and again this May. In between I have fired about 450 rounds with no significant fouling when it was cleaned.

 

If your loads are correct they leave virtually no residue and once a barrel is bedded-in the amount of copper left after even 200 rounds is minimal. This can vary significantly form cal to cal.

 

The foul out process reverse plates the copper residue in the bore onto a rod you place in the barrel so you can see exactly how much copper you have left in any given period for any given number of rounds.

 

 

The reason CZ and Brno etc have such good barrels is the Poldi steel that is used

a bit like our quality shotgun barrels made with Whitworth 'Fluid' Steel.

[dunganick]

good post mry

 

i stand corrected,

 

In your experiance what would you say the average life of a 22-250 barrel would be usingyour 5% reduced loads ( i know that depends very much on the barrels, but a rough estimate)

 

i suspect it will not be such a tiny number of rounds that it is better to get a .222 or .223 from an economics point of view (not wanting to have to re barrel regually)

[miffy]

Miffy.

 

 

I shot my .22/250 out just recently as most of you will probably know. (Remington VSSF)

I was using homeloads and i used 37 grains of vitavouri N140 in a remington case and topped off with a 50 Grain Vmax bullet, a CCI benchrest primer started things off.

In the first 2 years or so that i had the rifle i cleaned the rifle religiously every time i got home from shooting and in the last 4 or 5 years the only cleaning that the barrel received was using a bore snake.

I have shot 2000+ rounds through the rifle without any loss in accuracy until recently.

The rifle was shooting spot on before i had my rifles confiscated on the 1st november 2004, i got them all back in september last year after 10 months. i got the 250 back and checked the zero (as you do) and to my surprise it was still zeroed as it was 10 months earlier. Since i started to shoot live quarry with it again i have not missed any foxes but the point of impact was sometimes a bit puzzling. i tried to shoot a few rabbits with it and missed some 200 yard sitters which seemed a bit strange as 200 yard rabbits before were never a problem. Again the zero was checked and things seemed ok.

When i went zeroing for the first time with Ive (about 6 weeks ago) the rifle was grouping at about 8 inch with sometimes 2 shots touching and the 3rd off the target. I then took the rifle to the rifle smith who checked it over and used a bore scope on it which confirmed that the barrel was scrap. He checked the barrel from chamber to muzzle and along the entire length it was damaged. Now i do not know wether the barrel was damaged as a result of it sitting at the police station and not being used or not and it is probably just coincidence that things started going downhill from when i had it back. It was shot at least once a week before it was put in prison

 

Anyway i have the .243 tikka T3 now and so far things are looking good :yp:

[Frank]

The reason CZ and Brno etc have such good barrels is the Poldi steel that is used

a bit like our quality shotgun barrels made with Whitworth 'Fluid' Steel.

 

I like the sound of that. :yp:

[MC]

Martin Cavie (and others)

 

Yes barrels will wear from abrasion but the amount is so insignificant that it has no real effect on lifespan.

 

The main problem with a barrel being shot out is because of the way in which the hot gasses ‘burn’ away the metal in the bore just where the bullet starts its journey. This leaves a progressively bigger ‘gap’ between bullet and barrel and allows even more of the gasses to pass in front of the bullet so causing more of the burning effect. This is why a barrel that is starting to show signs of throat erosion will be far nearer the end of its life than one would expect from the rate of previous erosion.

 

If that is the case the why is it that a barrel on a .22lr rifle will last 100,000's of rounds? surely they still have hot gases behind the round? The reason a .22 barrel will last indefinetly is the bullets are lead and have a lubricant on them.

 

A centrefire round is copper jacketted and therefore gives a higher wear factor. I won't dispute the fact that the gases probably burn the metal away but you have to get steel incrediblyhot to burn it away.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Dunkield]

A 7.62 bullet has more surface area touching the barrel than a .223. It also has more power behind and travels faster.

 

 

Although I agree with the surface area bit, I thought most .223's are higher velocity than 7.62's?

[Hunter]

Not trying to be dumb here.. but I thought it metal has to be heated untill red hot to actually wear it away with heat? surely burning powder does not porduce the correct temprature to melt, or abrade carbon/stainless steel?

 

Im all up for cleening a rifle properly after each use :yp: as I strongly belive that barrel abrasion from dirt is the biggest barrel killer.

[mry716]

Martin

I know a gentleman that has a pair of early 30s Evans shotguns and since new they have probably shot in excess of 80000 per year. They are still in proof and measure virtually the same size as new except one tube which needed a heavy ding removing some 30yrs ago.

 

Copper will not wear only polish the steel but if when cleaning you leave an oily surface and then get the barrel dusty you have an abrasive and yes that will wear the rifling. In all my years of shooting i have yet to see a barrel 'shot out' through wear due to copper coated bullets. Even Spitfire machine gun barrels weren't changed until in excess of 150,000 rounds (from memory so don't quote me) and they fired copper coated steel bullets.

 

A barrel will not in normal circumstances wear out through use and some manufacturers actually make barrels that are in effect half worn out as new - see Marlin Micro rifling which is less than half the height of a normal rifling.

 

The problem is gas from the burning powder which is at a temp that is more than sufficient to erode the steel.

 

If you get a ruptured case you will have molten brass spewing from your action vent holes because of the excessive temp in the chamber and you can appreciate this would never happen with an air rifle or even a 22 rim.

 

Pressure also plays a large part. When you fire a shotgun you are reaching around 3 tons pressure per sq inch on the barrel whereas with a Centre Fire rile that increases to 12 plus. Think of differently - 15 Mini cars on each square inch of your barrel every time you squeeze the trigger. Frightening isn't it? This high pressure creates a blast of hot gas that will burn just like an Oxy / Acetylene torch, especially on the very vulnerable 'step' where the rifling begins. It is here that the damage is done and it is from here where your accuracy starts and /or fails.

[MC]

I beg to differ on this one. What is polishing if it isn't a form of removing the surface of a particular metal. You cannot compare a shotgun firing loose lead shot to a rifle firing a tight fitting jacketted bullet.

 

Also if you held a oxy-acetylene torch aginst a piece of steel for the same ammount of time as it takes a bullet to pass down a barrel, I doubt you would be able to measure the temperature difference. yet add the friction involved as well then you are getting somewhere.

 

In your original post you state "Performance has dropped off these last two years (since around the 6000 mark ?) and now given a good day I reckon I get one flyer in 5 (2-3") and the rest will only group around 2" at 100yds so it will not be used again on a live target until rebarrelled."

 

This is obviously due to barrel wear through usage. yet you say that in all your years of shooting you have yet to see a barrel shot out. You actually own a shot out barrel.

 

If a Spitfire relied on 1" groups at 250yds then I am sure the barrels would have been changed more often, as it was we were at war and they fired enough rounds to make a difference without pin point accuracy. Not wanting to disrespect anyone who fought in the great war as they have my upmost respect but a messcherschmitt 109 is a lot larger than a fox.

 

I am afraid I cannot accept the fact that the case will melt if you get a ruptured case as even in brazing conditions with steel that is red hot brass still takes longer to melt than it takes for a bullet to travel down a barrel. I had a wad stuck in a shotgun barrel which split the barrel yet it didn't even scorch the plastic cartridge.

 

If you want to see shot out barrels then pop into Fulton's if you are ever are at bisley and I am sure you will be shown several.

 

A normal target barrel would be replaced every 5 - 6000 rounds as a matter of course if you want to keep the same accuracy.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[The Bear]

Thanks to those of you who answered the question.

 

Nice to see the usual warped ideas floating around though.

[mry716]

Thats fine Martin,

 

I do not wish to enter into a debate. I just related circumstances as I see them based on my years of experience with a considerable number of rifles and having fired a huge amount of ammunition in all sorts of calibres as well as my extensive shooting related reading.

 

We all have our own point of view based on, what in actuality is a very limited knowledge base, about any aspect of life and on that basis we must all accept that our opinion is not necessarily correct even if we believe it to be so.

 

I therefore bow to your greater knowledge.

Regards,

M

[MC]

There is no need to get arsey about it, This is after all a discussion forum, which is here to discuss things.

 

What I have posted isn't based on a limited knowledge opinion but scientific facts. The melting point of brass is 900 - 940 degrees celcius and there is no way this is generated in a rifle cartridge for a long enough period of time to melt the case and push it out the vent holes. Especially when the cartridge is surrounded by the steel action that would conduct the heat away just as quick.

 

I am not arguing for arguing's sake I am stating a factual point.

 

Best regards

 

Martin

[The Bear]

Im not taking sides although im fairly sure who is right but a good example of friction in action is Extrusion and Injection moulding of Polymers.

 

Polymer chips are fed into a hopper and these are in turn fed into a barrel with an Archimedes screw of decrasing pitch, this barrel is heated. To reduce the viscosity and make the polymer into a homogenous liquid(bear in mind this stuff isnt runny!) that is fluid enough to inject into a mould or extrude through a die requires an awful lot of energy(heat in laymans terms). Most of that energy is generated through friction in the barrel/screw assembly, not through external heating.

 

That should give an example of how much friction is a factor, and is a relevant example.

 

(Bear in mind that Barrel in that example refers to a very large "tube" that is heavily condstructed to withstand the pressures involved, dont get any ideas about thinking its rifled!)

 

Thanks MRY for giving your examples and sharing your "real world" experience. From what you have said you show that in normal use your guns have done a hell of a lot of work and have both lasted well and given you good value.

 

Just bear in mind in the UK, if you use quality factory fodder at around £15 pound per box, it will cost you £3750 to burn out a 5000 round barrel. Now it costs from 400 quid upwards to rebarrel and that will be to a higher standard than your factory barrel will have been either made or fitted so it really does sart to seem like barrel wear is a mionr issue. Say £600 for a nice barrel fit, thats 12p per shot in this case.

 

Even if you missed 50% of the time, that would be 2500 deer or foxes and since hopefully you dont miss that much you can throw in zeroing and practice into that 5000 count.

 

It really does seem that unless you are an avid target shooter or just love shooting off hundreds of rounds of ammo for fun, for a sporting rifle shooter, barrel wear is probably the cheapest part of our sport, i would suggest we spend more driving round farms using petrol/diesel, going on stalking trips and buying ammo than will ever account for with wear.

 

Miffy may be an exception( I think he was unlucky) but even in his case with only 2k through the gun, does he regret it, I think not.