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hitfreshairagain
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Hi everyone,

well this has to be the most frustrating problem I've come across so far.My 20 month old lab has always been very steady and after marking a downed bird has looked at me for the command to go and pick up.However in the past 3 weeks or so he has completely unsteadied and is running in without my command as soon as the bird hits the ground.He totally ignores the stop whistle(which he is very good on with dummy work)and ignores recall he just picks up and brings the bird back.Should i now keep him on a lead at each drive and give him no more retrieves until he is steady again?

Pleeeez help guys and girls

Lee

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I would go back to keeping the lead on, and when a bird hits the deck a gentle reminder with the lead and say sit again will help. If you keep the lead off, unless you can stop the dog getting the retrieve then the dog has its reward and will continue. I would also limit the number of retrieves it gets and I wouldn't give it any initially.

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Agree with some of the above however you must instil in the dog, or re-instil, that not every mortal thing that falls to the ground is his. You must have done the initial training with the dog to have him already working so just go back to the part you used to gain some steadiness to begin with,or further back if you feel it neccessary. Sit him up, walk a few paces away, with him still sitting throw an object you know he will retrieve so that when it lands, you are between both the dog and the thrown object. If he gets up to fetch it before you command him, intervene with a correction and put him back on the spot he started out on. Keep doing this until he starts to get the message. You do most of the retrieving, let him watch you go out and retrieve the objects thrown, give him one in four or five of the retrieves you chuck. A bit of this each day for a week or two should help him. Once he is back to 100% on staying put, then you can work on using the stop whistle to stop him half way out to the retrieve, with you still standing in a position to correct him before he fails. I suspect you have probably already been through this in his initial training?

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/185209-bum-shuffle/

 

It would seem you are going backwards with the dog. This post above last month was the first step to the dog running in, you should seek a local hand to give you some hands help before you wreck the dog altogether. IMO

Edited by straightbarrel
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Thanks to both of you for your speedy replies and i will definatley keep him on a lead at our next shoot.I did wonder whether to leave him at home for the next one but do you think I'm right in thinking he needs to be subjected to the raining of birds. I have been training him 3 times a day for what seems like an eternity and he is fine in a field with dummys he will stop on the way out to dummy and recall and will be steady to thrown game etc,he switches of at shoot even his heel work is not as good he ends up a little too far ahead maybe 2ft.i have had a couple of weeks now where he has been running in (on about 7 birds) do you think i could have ruined him. ?....gulp

Thanks again Lee

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sorry straight barrel i don't understand your comment( i assume its sarcasm and you don't agree with my thoughts) please elaborate.I took him for some training this morning with some cold birds and he did remain steady while they were thrown past him.I didn't give him any retrieves just lots of praise at him staying put.

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Iam no expert but you cant train your dog and shoot at the same time (thats if your shooting you didnt say)leave the gun nat home or go on another shoot to correct the problem throwing dummies isnt going to be the same as an actual days shooting when dogs go up a gear

put the dog on a long lead and if it runs you then have full controll of stopping it,a goof hard yank taking it off its feet will sort the problem out in no time

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Iam no expert but you cant train your dog and shoot at the same time (thats if your shooting you didnt say)leave the gun nat home or go on another shoot to correct the problem throwing dummies isnt going to be the same as an actual days shooting when dogs go up a gear

put the dog on a long lead and if it runs you then have full controll of stopping it,a goof hard yank taking it off its feet will sort the problem out in no time

 

Throwing dummies is not going to be the same, you are quite right mate, but if the dog can not behave in a manufactured situation i.e a training situation, then it will struggle on a real day in the field. Throwing a few dummies and it succeeding for a day or two is not the answer, it is a start, but, it has to be done- if the dog is to get the message, and more importantly, it has to be done over a reasonable period to make sure the dog is ready to move on to the next stage. If the OP has access to a rabbit pen, this can speed the process up but either way, however boring it might seem, it needs to be drilled into the dog. Inconsistency and/or lazy training, will only result in faiure. The trainer failing the dog!

 

As far as the long lead is concerned...forget it, dogs know exactly when they are on a lead and when they are not. The dog knows what is required of him, make sure he is trained to do it.IMO

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Hi straightbarrel,i think i may have not explained myself well enough,my lab has not just had a few days training rammed into him then thrust into a shooting situation.He has been nurtured along and time taken on each aspect of his training.just because he has started to run in don't think he has always been like this.He was completely steady at the start of the season.Your comments make me sound as if i have rushed his initial training which couldn't be further from the truth.Your comment about pulling your wotsit explains nothing to me.I have obviously made a mistake somewhere along the line and i am trying to sort it out.The dog is behaving in the manufactured situation but i can't simulate any more than what i can.If you can help I'm all ears but please don't think of me as a lazy inconsistent trainer.

LEE

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Hi straightbarrel,i think i may have not explained myself well enough,my lab has not just had a few days training rammed into him then thrust into a shooting situation.He has been nurtured along and time taken on each aspect of his training.just because he has started to run in don't think he has always been like this.He was completely steady at the start of the season.Your comments make me sound as if i have rushed his initial training which couldn't be further from the truth.Your comment about pulling your wotsit explains nothing to me.I have obviously made a mistake somewhere along the line and i am trying to sort it out.The dog is behaving in the manufactured situation but i can't simulate any more than what i can.If you can help I'm all ears but please don't think of me as a lazy inconsistent trainer.

LEE

 

Take this as it is intended and not as some will see it.

 

This problem has been created by you, at the start of the season, you had a nice dog that behaved well. Now he runs in. In all probability this will be down to your eagerness and lack of discipline.

 

He would have learnt that shortly after the bird(s) hitting the floor he gets to retrieve one - when in fact as a young dog in his first season he, should have only been picking one or 2 in each session - this has led him to believe that all the birds are for him and he can go and get them as this pleases dad.

 

Simple solution (and it is simple honestly) take him out shooting or picking up (as has been said without your gun) if you are walking then keep him on the lead at heel at first, if you are stood (either picking up or whatever) stand with YOU between the dog and where any birds are going to fall - as the birds are falling re-enforce the stay if need be - he is not going to get a retrieve today anyway (well not like this) - once the drive/shooting is over, leave him on the drop and YOU pick the birds by hand - do NOT take your eye off your dog - if he moves, correct him. Once the birds are all picked, return to your dog - do NOT call him to you - that will just encourage him to break his stay.

 

Sort out the birds for the bag etc - but keep one out. Drop in to some COVER somewhere and use this for a 30/40m blind retrieve - to reward him for being good.

 

For the rest of this season NEVER send him for a bird laying dead in the open - if it is a runner, wait until it hits cover before sending him.

 

Mike

Edited by MiLisCer
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I'd go with Mike's suggestions, take the dog and enforce his sit as the birds start to fall. it may only take an AhAh sit

then you can praise him, so he learns not only do the retrieves please dad, but also the sitting still is what is required too.

i realise you are there with a job to do, but hopefully the keeper would prefer you to have a good steady dog than one out of control and will be happy for you to take a little time with your dogs training.

you cannot allow him to continue, so nip it in the bud.

jan

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Hi all,thanks for some really good tips on getting this under control,I'm really worried about ruining this dog and want to get things right.I will take your advice and anymore that is given.

Thanks guys Lee

This is a very common problem with keen labs.

The best way to sort this is put a drag lead on your dog keeping your foot on it . Go out with a friend and let him shoot. Let the dog pick one out of three birds shot. Making him sit while YOU fetch the others. This way the dog will learn not all birds are for him.

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