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For precisely the reason you mentioned in your post above, they want their cake and they want to eat it as well, your mate entered BO and then was aggrieved that he didn't get any recognition when he got top score.

 

Small wonder he shot well, knowing he wasn't competing against any of the "hot shots" all going for the HG prize, no pressure there, he could afford to relax. :yes:

 

Birds Only entries have no place in serious competition shooting, if you're man enough to enter the event, then you should pay full entry fee, and contribute to the prize fund.

 

Cat.

 

No you're wrong.

 

He was a bit miffed that he had shot better than everyone else at that "Competition" he did not want to shoot for money or prizes he just wanted to shoot.

 

He still entered the "Competition" as did everyone else. It does not matter if you shoot B/O or gamble you are still in serious competition with every one else there. Can you not understand that?

 

Are you in a special club or clique if you shoot for money? I say stuff the prize fund, if your type of shooters want to shoot for money why not put £200.00 each into a pot, then you will receive a decent prize every time instead of a tenner.

 

I enjoy my shooting but I am not a gambling man so I will carry on shooting birds only.

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Let's all hope that hell freezes over before a "Birds Only" shooter walks off with the HG prize, I've never known it happen. :no:

 

In my opinion, every ground should adopt the policy set by Steve Lovatt, after each event he will e-mail every competitor to let them know how many entries they've had in each class, and exactly what the payout was in every class, no smoke or mirrors, that's it plain and simple. :yes:

 

Now, if you think you've been ripped off, you vote with your feet and don't go back.

 

Cat.

Yep, i agree cat, i won the pool shoot at weston woods shoot in the summer, may or june time, i havent been back since for various reasons, a shooting partner of mine from essex went there over xmas & steve gave him my winnings (no chance of me ever seeing that now, since ive left essex) but like you say "no smoke or mirrors"

 

Phil

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the difference from birds only say £25 and comp £30 quid is a fiver all prize money in say A class 20 shooters = 100 quid split how you like 50 30 20 1st 2nd 3 rd birds only should mean birds only no prize whatsoever ! grounds who put a list up of scores and prizes ie north of england well done to them some other grounds seem to adopt a secret service whos won what ! if the ground puts on a high gun prize where should this money come from AAA and AA shooters ? why ? surely the B and C class shooters who enter as comp have NO chance of winning and should not lose out on there share of the prize money !

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No you're wrong.

 

He was a bit miffed that he had shot better than everyone else at that "Competition" he did not want to shoot for money or prizes he just wanted to shoot.

 

He still entered the "Competition" as did everyone else. It does not matter if you shoot B/O or gamble you are still in serious competition with every one else there. Can you not understand that?

 

Are you in a special club or clique if you shoot for money? I say stuff the prize fund, if your type of shooters want to shoot for money why not put £200.00 each into a pot, then you will receive a decent prize every time instead of a tenner.

 

I enjoy my shooting but I am not a gambling man so I will carry on shooting birds only.

 

No, that's fine, apologies for my gross incompetence on this matter, it's clear that you know far more than I about competitive clay shooting, so let's leave it at that. :thanks:

 

Cat

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Yep, i agree cat, i won the pool shoot at weston woods shoot in the summer, may or june time, i havent been back since for various reasons, a shooting partner of mine from essex went there over xmas & steve gave him my winnings (no chance of me ever seeing that now, since ive left essex) but like you say "no smoke or mirrors"

 

Phil

 

Off to the shops in the morning for a Blackboard then Phil :good:

 

No "Smoke or Mirrors" at MCSC,total transparancy....Excellent :good: :good:

 

 

Azzurri.

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Yep, i agree cat, i won the pool shoot at weston woods shoot in the summer, may or june time, i havent been back since for various reasons, a shooting partner of mine from essex went there over xmas & steve gave him my winnings (no chance of me ever seeing that now, since ive left essex) but like you say "no smoke or mirrors"

 

Phil

 

You'll not see it if it was the "Fiddler" that took it..?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Cheers,

 

Cat.

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" if the ground puts on a high gun prize where should this money come from AAA and AA shooters ? why ? surely the B and C class shooters who enter as comp have NO chance of winning and should not lose out on there share of the prize money !"

 

You can bet if one of the b or a lads had a good day and won they would be screaming for their £150 though!!!

Take more funds from AA and the like and all you will succeed in doing is making sandbagging more commonplace, then C B and A will be won with 90 + and the genuine club shot will have absolutely no chance. Why penalise those who have put the time and effort in by taking even more from them!?

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Let's all hope that hell freezes over before a "Birds Only" shooter walks off with the HG prize, I've never known it happen. :no:

 

In my opinion, every ground should adopt the policy set by Steve Lovatt, after each event he will e-mail every competitor to let them know how many entries they've had in each class, and exactly what the payout was in every class, no smoke or mirrors, that's it plain and simple. :yes:

 

Now, if you think you've been ripped off, you vote with your feet and don't go back.

 

Cat.

Funnily enough back in the day when the old Worsley Grange held monthly registered ESP competitions (senility is setting in but I reckon it was getting on for ten years ago) they had one of the best ways of communicating the prize fund to the entrants. They had a huge whiteboard on the wall next to the counter. As you booked on your name was entered on the board in your class column and in the "birds only" column at the end if you so chose to enter that way.

When entries closed they toted up the entrants in each class and wrote in at the bottom the prize pot and it's distribution. So when you handed your card in and you thought you might pick up in your class you knew exactly how much should be in the envelope.

 

Two things stand out, firstly the comparatively small % that went b/o in those days (at that ground) maybe 10 or 15%, go to Shugborough or Catton Hall these days and b/o are in the majority.

The other thing was the moaning by the AA shooters, not that I was one you understand, because by number they were the smallest class. There might be 20 AA shooters with a prize pot of £80 but A class might be 50 entries with a £200 fund and so on in B and C.

 

I think competitors would be happy if the prize fund & it's distribution is transparent. Come on it's not hard to put a big notice on the wall or post your policy on the ground's website. The catch all "Prizes according to entries" is not good enough. if you have a fixed payout irrespective of entries then some weeks you'll lose and on the good weeks you'll be up.

Oh and in my ever so humble opinion grounds should abandon the b/o option, perhaps knock a £1 off the current competition entry fee but the pot would be bigger as all would be in it. For those who for whatever reason choose not to be CPSA members but can now enter registered shoots they still pay the same and the grounds will have to do 5 minutes extra work to classify on the day.

It's a Registered Competition lets have prize money, reduce the classification period to 3 months if required to ensure there is no sandbagging and manipulation.

 

Think we (I've) wandered off topic a bit bit it's about the only good thing I've had to say about Worsley for a while!!

 

Potter

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Yes, as usual some very sensible comments by Mr P. :yes:

 

He's dead right, all experienced shooters detest the phrase "other prizes according to entries", because we all know that means after the mandatory £75 / £100 / £150 HG, (if you're very lucky), the top scores in each class will get a crumpled brown envelope containing a tenner , or perhaps even a score if they get lucky.

 

It doesn't even cover your entry fee, now how sad is that....?? :o

 

Many ground owners are missing out, because they don't understand that they're p i s s i ng off an awful lot of potential entrants by being so mean and deceitful over payouts.

 

C'mon Phil, tell those dozey Corrie lovers that now you're in charge the days of the big con are well and truly over. :good:

 

Cat.

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There are some very comendable words being written on here tonight, and this is a very honest answer from me.

 

I have shot clays since the 1980's and the one thing that really annoys me is the amount of cheating that goes on at mainly sporting shoots.

 

That is a fact, not fiction. Trap shooting has a set up that is easy to manage, so has Skeet.

 

I was at a registered shoot at Worsley, must be about eight years ago and overheard three serious competition shooters trying to convince the young lad marking that their mate had a kill, when it was a miss. I thought should I say nowt, then thought sod it and asked them why they were cheating. They weren't very happy then so they slunk off.

 

Other calls of "I knocked a bit off that" and so on. You all know it goes on, sandbagging is rife, even B Waktare couldn't get the management to change things on the Sporting side so he left.

 

That's the main reason why I will not rejoin the CPSA and gamble.

 

p.s my CPSA number is actually lower than Catamong's.

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Mike - I have witnessed the "magic pencil" over the years. You could practice all you want, but a bunch of mates, squadded together, all with razor sharp eyesight - good enough to see the smallest chip, factor in an inexperienced scorer and it took some beating.

 

I sincerely hope things have got more honest in recent years, with proper referees and scorers.

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the HG fund is supposed to be seperate from the class monies, ie if you had 20 AA at £5 comp then payout in AA should be £100 PLUS whatever was advertised for HG, so a HG of say £150, then AA1 £50 AA2 £30 AA3 £20 etc. quite a lot dont do it that way and just pull the £150 out of all the class monies.

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It gets worse then :oops: :oops: :oops:

 

Much :good:

 

Ask your parents how much the interest rate was on a mortgage, I can remember paying 15% on mine.

 

When I was 23, the sale price of a new house in Kendal was between £2800-£3200, I could not afford a mortgage on my earnings.

 

Do you want to read anymore about how little money was about to the ordinary working man? :no:

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and there shouldnt be now!

 

Ah...but now the strawbale heathens are allowed to mix it with the shooting elite :good:

 

Emmsy how much would you be prepared to pay and therefore supposedly put more money in the pot, for a 100 bird comp?

 

£60.00 £50.00 £40.00?

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at the moment no more, its already overpriced for what you get! and i simply couldnt afford to.

you only have to look and the majority of shooters are over 50 because they are the ones with the most disposible income.

i just dont see the point in having bigger payouts in lower classes, it should tier down from the top.

you need to promote people to improve and reward what hard work people have put in.

so structure the payouts to say 50% cash went to AA, 25% to A, 15% to B, 10% to C.

there are then still rewards in all classes yet the rewards get bigger the higher you go. at the moment payout in A and B class is where the most ££ is to win hence all the baggers.

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