Defenders

[ferguson_tom]

Something that has always puzzled me.... who would be mad enough to buy a defender?

 

I must admit they look the nuts when kitted out but thats were my understanding ends, they are cramped inside, load space is actually not that good, very little gadgets, on road handling not great, massively expensive and not got the best reputation for reliability.

 

I am a landrover lover I have a 2A county wagon sitting in the yard which will be out in the spring, but that is cheap to tax (free) and insure as its a vintage vehicle. They would make sense to me if they were any better off road than a Discovery or Suzuki Jimney but I dont think i have seen something a defender can get over or through that something else cant. Also with a newer lower mileage discovery or japanese 4x4, or pick up truck being cheaper I struggle to understand why you would buy one.

 

This is not meant in the slightest to offend anyone or to cause the old landrover over jap argument just to find out what key thing i am missing. I have to admit we were very close to buying one heart over head and all that even with all the above listed pitfalls, but common sense prevailed and we bought a warmer more comfortable freelander (the wifes car i wanted a disco.)

 

Can someone please point out what thing I am missing as it does not make sense to me to own one

[Vipa]

I think if you look at it as a piece of farm machinery, which, at the end of the day, is what it is, it is a more sensible piece of kit than a disco.

 

If you look at it from a 'car' perspective then, there are, as you say, better options

[bedwards1966]

I don't think you're really missing anything. They do have a great following, are arguably the 'best 4x4 by far', the design of them has remained unchanged for many years resulting in almost all parts being available easily, and there are a huge number of add-ons that people have managed to devise.

However, I've worked with quite a few, and they are the most unreliable and expensive vehicle I've ever encountered. Parts just fail and wear out, there is always something that needs replacing, I used to run a Ford KA, not the best car in the world but I knew several people at the same time with LR's who were always working on them, while I ran around in a £350 car that I abused, used to fly around off-road in it, and it took more abuse than the LR's but without breaking down every week (not as good off-road though...).

Basically they're simple sheds on wheels, uncomfortable, noisy, prone to all sorts of problems in just about every way, and when it comes to the off-road ability, I do think they're the best if you want to look closely, but in almost all situations the Japs do far better 4x4's, there is not that much difference off-road.

I've probably upset a few dedicated LR fans now, I'm not actually trying to have a go at you. And I don't hate all LR's, just the ones after Series 3 (that's when they were made a bit better)

I should add that while a lot of people buy them for what they are and to use, I think a fair few townies buy them as some sort of fashion statement thing, without any intention of using them for any sort of off-roading.

Edited January 5, 2012 by bedwards1966

[Hamster]

Something that has always puzzled me.... who would be mad enough to buy a defender?

 

they are cramped inside, load space is actually not that good, very little gadgets, on road handling not great, massively expensive and not got the best reputation for reliability.

[/b]

 

 

Had it not been for the above I would have had one many years ago, but then again I think their price would have truly been through the roof then too so would have been even more seemingly expensive. One day I will buy one but not to drive or use as such but more as a yard art object . I believe the reason they are expensive beyond their actual/literal use is that they're just so damn pretty.

[Paul223]

on road handling not great,

mate of mine has puma powered defender 90 fitted with mud terrains, it holds the road unbelievably well, much better than my disco

 

i agree with the slightly cramped comment

 

great towing vehicle

 

and they do look well

[tinytim38]

Had one for many years, would never buy another, got a disco now, much more refined, but still just as good off road and sooooo better on the road

 

same engine gearbox and runnig gear parts same price, but its mainly range rover body parts and interior, no leaks draughts and road noise,and air con not a bloody letter box for fresh air, and as for the price of defenders its mad cos there **** when compared to a good well looked after disco, dont know why, think its just the look of a defender that keeps people paying far to much for them, they are just fast tractors (big boys toys) most farmers round here but pick ups now and they are careful with there coin :unsure:

[markbivvy]

who would be mad enough to buy a defender?

 

they're simple sheds on wheels, uncomfortable, noisy, prone to all sorts of problems

 

they are cramped inside, load space is actually not that good, very little gadgets, on road handling not great, massively expensive and not got the best reputation for reliability.

 

 

:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

davek will be gutted. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Luckyshot]

Something that has always puzzled me.... who would be mad enough to buy a defender?

 

I must admit they look the nuts when kitted out but thats were my understanding ends, they are cramped inside, load space is actually not that good, very little gadgets, on road handling not great, massively expensive and not got the best reputation for reliability. I am a landrover lover I have a 2A county wagon sitting in the yard which will be out in the spring, but that is cheap to tax (free) and insure as its a vintage vehicle. They would make sense to me if they were any better off road than a Discovery or Suzuki Jimney but I dont think i have seen something a defender can get over or through that something else cant. Also with a newer lower mileage discovery or japanese 4x4, or pick up truck being cheaper I struggle to understand why you would buy one.

 

This is not meant in the slightest to offend anyone or to cause the old landrover over jap argument just to find out what key thing i am missing. I have to admit we were very close to buying one heart over head and all that even with all the above listed pitfalls, but common sense prevailed and we bought a warmer more comfortable freelander (the wifes car i wanted a disco.)

 

Can someone please point out what thing I am missing as it does not make sense to me to own one

 

Lets start Im 6ft 16 stone and fit in my Defender no problem leg space isnt a problem arm space isnt great but I can live with that. Load space in a Defender is better than a Jimny for eg can carry a hell of alot more weight tow alot more weight and can fit in all the kit you need when you go shooting. As for very little gadgets mine has PAS,RCL,EW,Reverse camera,on board pc,Tv,dual batterys,winch,240v supply just to mention a few. The handling is way better in a Defender compared to something like an L200. Yes they are pretty expensive but you get what you pay for. Reliability I can only speak of mine and my 2 mates that own Defenders, Ive had mine for 3 years now and it has cost me £102 to keep on the road its never failed an MOT never had an asvisory and Ive never been stranded anywhere in it even when my clutch fork went bang £12 repair. With them being agricultural like I drove it home 75 miles with no clutch at all and it never flattered all the way home. Insurance wise I pay £144 fully comp second vehicle no ncb I couldnt insure any jap 4x4 for that not even a 1.3 jimny. From a non offended Defender owner

 

I don't think you're really missing anything. They do have a great following, are arguably the 'best 4x4 by far', the design of them has remained unchanged for many years resulting in almost all parts being available easily, and there are a huge number of add-ons that people have managed to devise.

However, I've worked with quite a few, and they are the most unreliable and expensive vehicle I've ever encountered. Parts just fail and wear out, there is always something that needs replacing, I used to run a Ford KA, not the best car in the world but I knew several people at the same time with LR's who were always working on them, while I ran around in a £350 car that I abused, used to fly around off-road in it, and it took more abuse than the LR's but without breaking down every week (not as good off-road though...).Basically they're simple sheds on wheels, uncomfortable, noisy, prone to all sorts of problems in just about every way, and when it comes to the off-road ability, I do think they're the best if you want to look closely, but in almost all situations the Japs do far better 4x4's, there is not that much difference off-road.

I've probably upset a few dedicated LR fans now, I'm not actually trying to have a go at you. And I don't hate all LR's, just the ones after Series 3 (that's when they were made a bit better)

I should add that while a lot of people buy them for what they are and to use, I think a fair few townies buy them as some sort of fashion statement thing, without any intention of using them for any sort of off-roading.

 

You obviously havent worked on many jap 4x4 then as repairing them are easily twice the cost of a Defender. As for parts failing and wearing out they do on any vehicle that gets used properly. Ive replaced 3 things on my Defender in 3 years of motoring and 70,000 miles thats reliable in my book. The purple bit is Bull ****. You may have driver round the odd field but thats not realy off road driving.(I know you cant compare a car to a Defender but you did say off roading) If theres one thing a Defender can take is abuse if they couldnt why have they been so popular as a farming vehicle.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Luckyshot

[bedwards1966]

The purple bit is Bull ****. You may have driver round the odd field but thats not realy off road driving.(I know you cant compare a car to a Defender but you did say off roading)

 

I can see why you may think that, as it happens it's far from that. It was mostly on a woodland, not suited for vehicle access and to say abused is not enough. It got driven into trees, through trees, through tree stumps, through ditches, up banks, through very deep mud and basically I wasn't bothered about it and, to compensate for minor problems like grounding out and traction it was just taken at high speeds. It also had a lot of weight in it at all times.

The only real damage was a couple of suspension bushes torn (cheap to fix), but it was old and they were perished anyway, bumpers had to be bolted on again and I put a hole in the fuel tank from bottoming out somewhere, which I patched up.

Add to that it got ragged on road as best as I could too, looking back if I'd been trying to destroy it there isn't much I could do any different.

I recall a couple of defenders at the time that didn't do any real off-roading that had a catalogue of problems, gearbox, brakes, bearings, gearbox's again, alternator and more. They hardly left the workshop.

I think the engines were OK though.

[spanj]

I don't think you're really missing anything. They do have a great following, are arguably the 'best 4x4 by far', the design of them has remained unchanged for many years resulting in almost all parts being available easily, and there are a huge number of add-ons that people have managed to devise.

However, I've worked with quite a few, and they are the most unreliable and expensive vehicle I've ever encountered. Parts just fail and wear out, there is always something that needs replacing, I used to run a Ford KA, not the best car in the world but I knew several people at the same time with LR's who were always working on them, while I ran around in a £350 car that I abused, used to fly around off-road in it, and it took more abuse than the LR's but without breaking down every week (not as good off-road though...).

Basically they're simple sheds on wheels, uncomfortable, noisy, prone to all sorts of problems in just about every way, and when it comes to the off-road ability, I do think they're the best if you want to look closely, but in almost all situations the Japs do far better 4x4's, there is not that much difference off-road.

I've probably upset a few dedicated LR fans now, I'm not actually trying to have a go at you. And I don't hate all LR's, just the ones after Series 3 (that's when they were made a bit better)

I should add that while a lot of people buy them for what they are and to use, I think a fair few townies buy them as some sort of fashion statement thing, without any intention of using them for any sort of off-roading.

 

series 3, better made. You are having a laugh !!

[Alycidon]

Have Disco ES and Defender County, both 03 plate and both properly tooled up for off road.

 

Disco is as good off road and far more comfortable and cheaper to buy. Had my Disco running the Hill decent control system on Tues for real. needed to gets some guns somewhere pretty wet and remote. Bottom gear low range, feet off and away you go, brilliant. Defender has nothing like that.

 

Defenders are going out of production in the next year or so, expect them to become cult collectors cars.

 

A

[bedwards1966]

series 3, better made. You are having a laugh !!

 

They are simple, and easy to access/work on. Very good in their day, they're solid. Obviously they are old now and not usually maintained as well as perhaps needed to keep them 100% reliable, but they were built well and easy to mend on the go.

[Devon Fox]

This in My opinion somes up LR owners

 

I have used and run them in the past, and to be perfectly honest sitting in a little metal box plodding along with back ache,freezing or sweating my cahonies off is not fun - I will stick with My warrior

Edited January 5, 2012 by Devon Fox

[njc110381]

I think people knock the Defender all too often. But a friend of mine summed it up very well when he said that Defenders can't match the reliability of a jap 4x4 on the road or when mildly off roading but you sink them deep into the hardest **** you can throw them at and the Defender will come out on top. They do break down but when used hard the others do too. Defenders are easy and cheap to fix.

 

I own a Ford Ranger now as I do a lot of road miles and not too much hard graft but I'll tell you what, if I did half what my Defender used to do with the Ranger or other jap truck it would be dead in a matter of months.

 

The only off road pickup/van I would put above the Defender is the Unimog. That's hardly in the same class either for price, speed on road or weight.

[mrwabbits]

It`s a "marmite moment" , love it or hate it.

 

I drive jap versions everyday but i`m still glad to get out of them and back into my draughty trusty LR def`

 

As for the prices ?

I can only assume its down to supply and demand and the easy ability to service/repair/modify/adapt at home easily and sometimes economically by its owner/enthusiast.

Mix that with the fact that they`re being heavily stolen to order and shipped abroad.(easily split as parts).

 

Has your head gasket blown yet ? it`ll be nice and warm and toasty then :P :lol:

Edited January 6, 2012 by mrwabbits

[snozzer]

Before you Buy why not try with Snozzers patented "LR simulator"

 

1. 
    
   
2. Firstly spend 25 mins turning a key and making a whirrrring click click noise
   
3. Then remove all the skin from your knuckles and cover your hands, neck, face, arms and torso in oil and grease.
   
4. Then balance you *** on a piece of 2x4 with barbed wire wrapped around it until your butt is numb not forgetting to put a monsters of rock track on continuous loop at volume 11 until you are deaf.
   
5. Stand out in the cold whilst a friend hoses you down with freezing water
   
6. Finally you attempt to keep warm by getting a HUGE pile of 20's and burning them slowly to get some heat
   

 

You are now cold, wet. uncomfortable, greasy and oily and substantially poorer. Welcome to the joy's of landrover ownership :-)

[Luckyshot]

Before you Buy why not try with Snozzers patented "LR simulator"

 

1. 
    
   
2. Firstly spend 25 mins turning a key and making a whirrrring click click noise
   
3. Then remove all the skin from your knuckles and cover your hands, neck, face, arms and torso in oil and grease.
   
4. Then balance you *** on a piece of 2x4 with barbed wire wrapped around it until your butt is numb not forgetting to put a monsters of rock track on continuous loop at volume 11 until you are deaf.
   
5. Stand out in the cold whilst a friend hoses you down with freezing water
   
6. Finally you attempt to keep warm by getting a HUGE pile of 20's and burning them slowly to get some heat
   

 

You are now cold, wet. uncomfortable, greasy and oily and substantially poorer. Welcome to the joy's of landrover ownership :-)

 

 

In a Defender I dont think so

Edited January 6, 2012 by Luckyshot

[rimfire4969]

Something that has always puzzled me.... who would be mad enough to buy a defender?

 

I must admit they look the nuts when kitted out but thats were my understanding ends, they are cramped inside, load space is actually not that good, very little gadgets, on road handling not great, massively expensive and not got the best reputation for reliability.

 

I am a landrover lover I have a 2A county wagon sitting in the yard which will be out in the spring, but that is cheap to tax (free) and insure as its a vintage vehicle. They would make sense to me if they were any better off road than a Discovery or Suzuki Jimney but I dont think i have seen something a defender can get over or through that something else cant. Also with a newer lower mileage discovery or japanese 4x4, or pick up truck being cheaper I struggle to understand why you would buy one.

 

This is not meant in the slightest to offend anyone or to cause the old landrover over jap argument just to find out what key thing i am missing. I have to admit we were very close to buying one heart over head and all that even with all the above listed pitfalls, but common sense prevailed and we bought a warmer more comfortable freelander (the wifes car i wanted a disco.)

 

Can someone please point out what thing I am missing as it does not make sense to me to own one

I think you have answered your question, heart over mind.

[J@mes]

If I was buying nearly new I'd have a defender all day long, as the depreciation is pretty much no existent. Sell a navara/l200 when it's 3 years old and it's worth 30% of what you paid for it. Hilux are a bit different, hold their value better but we have loads of them at work and they are just as uncomfortable as anything else, **** ride off road and the interiors wear very badly.

[spanj]

They are simple, and easy to access/work on. Very good in their day, they're solid. Obviously they are old now and not usually maintained as well as perhaps needed to keep them 100% reliable, but they were built well and easy to mend on the go.

 

Agree with you 100% but they deffo werent BETTER made than a modern day defender (even though they still have their faults)

[DIVERD]

I have a 110 200 TDI, it is H reg so 22 years old i think. It has done 160k miles and is used for all my fishing and shooting. I have 2 opther cars and it is regularly my commuting choice. It is the cheapest car i have ever run and expect it to still be going in 20 years. My last landy was a series 2A from 1970 i think and it is still on the road, i see it every now and then.

 

I have had most types of car, and had a spell of Range rovers. Nice but you cannot / should not throw dead things on the back seats, drive through gorse bushes and the like. With the landy i do this most weeks.

 

A landy is iconic. Parts are really cheap if you know where to shop. They are really easy to work on if you want to. Mine gets some 25 - 30 mpg and will do 75 all day on a motorway. It will take 5 adults and guns, dogs and associated **** - easily if you use the seats in the very back. Mine is now just 7 seats. It has heated seats (kit - £20 for 2) ,sat nav, central locking (kit ebay) cd dvd, and everything my jag has except electric windows.

 

You cannot compare it to a new car, that is not fair. But they last so very long, cost so little to maintain and just keep going. They may not be equal to a mondeyo or similar, they are simply not. Not everyone likes them, that is fine. My landy is 22 years old, appears to be going up in value, and is now worth way more than i paid for it.

 

My jag and most other 4x4's will not last that long, be increasing in value and can be used as a daily driver in summer and worst winter conditions after 22 years.

[BrowningDJC]

Coming from a family who has been in the motor trade for decades i often here different opinions on Land Rovers, defenders in particular.

 

My father was a Land Rover fanatic, owned every model possible until the 1st Defender arrived. In in my opinion this is when the quality in Land Rover began to decline. The series Land rovers will always be awesome peices of kit.

 

I myself do think that Defenders are over priced, they look good when all kitted up but drive horribly on the road, are low equipped as always need something doing to them! They are a labour of love, some people just love them and constant repairs, it is all in the land rover owners experience. Defenders are also the only thing left which resembles the proper series Land Rovers in looks.

 

I often see 15 year old defenders with asking prices which seem ridiculous, but i feel part of the is the so called 'snob value' which some people feel come with owning a Land Rover. But personally I feel there are vehicles on the market which do the job much better for much less money.

 

Many people still swear by their off road ability, but ive never ever witnessed a defender out perform any shogun/trooper etc which have the appropiate tyres for the job.

 

In my opinion defenders will always have a strong fan base from the die hard land rover fans,and therefore always command high prices. But in recent years I have even less faith in the Land Rover name, after so many horror stories with all models, and recently sending a TD5 discovery for scrap due to rot.

 

But no ill stick to my Mitsubishis, brilliant peices of kit, had 5 in the family in the last 15 years and all of them have me proud!

[woodcock1]

Coming from a family who has been in the motor trade for decades i often here different opinions on Land Rovers, defenders in particular.

 

My father was a Land Rover fanatic, owned every model possible until the 1st Defender arrived. In in my opinion this is when the quality in Land Rover began to decline. The series Land rovers will always be awesome peices of kit.

 

I myself do think that Defenders are over priced, they look good when all kitted up but drive horribly on the road, are low equipped as always need something doing to them! They are a labour of love, some people just love them and constant repairs, it is all in the land rover owners experience. Defenders are also the only thing left which resembles the proper series Land Rovers in looks.

 

I often see 15 year old defenders with asking prices which seem ridiculous, but i feel part of the is the so called 'snob value' which some people feel come with owning a Land Rover. But personally I feel there are vehicles on the market which do the job much better for much less money.

 

Many people still swear by their off road ability, but ive never ever witnessed a defender out perform any shogun/trooper etc which have the appropiate tyres for the job.

 

In my opinion defenders will always have a strong fan base from the die hard land rover fans,and therefore always command high prices. But in recent years I have even less faith in the Land Rover name, after so many horror stories with all models, and recently sending a TD5 discovery for scrap due to rot.

 

But no ill stick to my Mitsubishis, brilliant peices of kit, had 5 in the family in the last 15 years and all of them have me proud!

 

 

Sort of contradictory dont you think. Series landrovers drive well, especially the light steering, quiet, speedy on the road, powerful and corner great. They are well equipped and never need repair? NOT!!! Im not being hateful but come on.

[bedwards1966]

Sort of contradictory dont you think. Series landrovers drive well, especially the light steering, quiet, speedy on the road, powerful and corner great. They are well equipped and never need repair? NOT!!! Im not being hateful but come on.

 

Looking at when they were made, they're great. I don't think power steering was that common then, and diesel engines didn't have the refinement around now, they used old indirect injection, of course they won't go well!

I think that part of the point is that the Defender should have improved since the series LR's, but instead they've just become added a couple of more modern things and become unreliable.

[docholiday]

Over 70% of all defenders ever made are still running.

 

I have just ordered a new 110, my 15 yr old one has just returned me £5000 I drive it around more farms than roads, it will outlast me, I have a car for driving from a to b.