kyska Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 The shadows on the craters are to the left of them. The highlights of the craters are to the right of them. Now look at the 'Lunar Module'. It defies the laws of physics. Clever people these Americans Its probably the camera flash... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I say again UNIDENTIFIED flying object - Ever seen a bird that you couldn't identify? Does that make you gullible? Strewth... I never brought integrity into the discussion, I never brought gullibility into it, it was the original poster. Gullibility in 'believing' is the premise of the thread. Likewise, I never said anything about alien craft, though studies by the military in various countries have concluded it's a definite possibility. Read the thread before getting out of your pram. Strewth... Edited February 3, 2012 by paul65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyvonk Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 The shadows on the craters are to the left of them. The highlights of the craters are to the right of them. Now look at the 'Lunar Module'. It defies the laws of physics. Clever people these Americans The shadows are on the inside of the craters, which are a hole in the surface - the crater wall is to the left of the shadow - just like on the Lunar Module. I cannot fathom anyone questioning the lunar landings - you just have to ask, was it easier at the time to make up a conspiracy, or just go and do the job - before health and safety and when men were men.... in the words of Alan Shepard sat on the pad "Why don't you fellows solve your little problems and light this candle. " - true balls of steel!! (also, if you have a kit, you can bounce a laser of the reflectors the guys left on the surface...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I never brought integrity into the discussion, I never brought gullibility into it You should try reading your own posts What about the decorated fighter pilots and astronauts who have seen UFOs, are they men of integrity too? So they have integrity but they are gullible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) You should try reading your own posts Most of the astronauts were decorated fighter pilots and patriotic men of integrity. I think that was your post, as was the thread subject that refers to gullible people. Edited February 3, 2012 by paul65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I think that was your post, as was the thread subject that refers to gullible people. Indeed it was, those words and quite a few others were in my OP and the post you quote. You honed in on those two in particular though and made them a discussion point, which is good and I have enjoyed the debate. It seems however in your post above that you now seem to be saying they are of no consequence despite your earlier focus on them? Edited February 3, 2012 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 The shadows on the craters are to the left of them. The highlights of the craters are to the right of them. Now look at the 'Lunar Module'. It defies the laws of physics. You're going to feel a bit silly when you "get it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 its all part of the matrix...dont you know that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 You're going to feel a bit silly when you "get it". Yes, you are right. Still don't believe in the lunar landings though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Indeed it was, those words and quite a few others were in my OP and the post you quote. You honed in on those two in particular though and made them a discussion point, which is good and I have enjoyed the debate. It seems however in your post above that you now seem to be saying they are of no consequence despite your earlier focus on them? The point I was, apparently poorly, making is that you clearly consider 'believers' in UFOs, ghosts etc as gullible halfwits on one hand, but on the other you refer to fighter pilots as men of integrity. Where does that leave fighter pilots who have seen UFOs and believe that they could be 'alien' craft? Are they gullible men of integrity? I'm sure that's a possible position but seems unlikely. Edited February 3, 2012 by paul65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Raja - when you put it like that, I 'believe' too. Not sure about organised religion being conspiracies though. I think they evolved as a means for people to explain the world they live in before Science started to do a better job of it. Re the whole conspiracy thing, I read a theory about why some people are predisposed to believe them. A lot of people subconsciously find the fact that the real world has evolved out of random and often inexplicable, disconnected events too scary. The idea that terrorist attacks, war, natural disasters or financial meltdown can just happen due to bumbling foreign or fiscal policy decisions, incompetence, bad luck, violent nutters or plate tectonics is scary. It's all too random and makes them feel vulnerable. It's better to believe that some one or some thing is influencing and directing it all. Even a malign influence is preferable if it means there is an explaination for otherwise random and disconnected events. No matter how far fetched the theory, if it brings some order to the chaos and means it can be 'explained' it's somehow comforting. Just a theory, which might have its flaws but I think there might be something in it. This is quite a good explanation actually.When Darwin initially mooted his theory of evolution,it wasn't the fact that he was denying God as creator of all things which believers found disturbing,but the fact that if God didn't exist,then whatever happened in life was just random;natural life was in fact just a series of random acts with no rhyme or reason,often cruel,unpredictable and catastrophic for no apparent reason,and totally uncontrollable,no matter how many times a week you went to church and said your prayers.And this in fact is what life is.Nothing more,nor less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) The point I was, apparently poorly, making is that you clearly consider 'believers' in UFOs, ghosts etc as gullible halfwits on one hand, but on the other you refer to fighter pilots as men of integrity. Where does that leave fighter pilots who have seen UFOs and believe that they could be 'alien' craft? Are they gullible men of integrity? I'm sure that's a possible position but seems unlikely. I'm trying hard to keep this a civilised debate. Please don't put words into my mouth. At no point did I use the word 'halfwit', nor would I, nor do I think it of others who happen to take a different view, which includes good friends of mine. Re your example, FalconFN and Grandalf have already answered it perfectly well and better than I could. Is a fighter pilot of integrity gullible if he reports a UFO? No of course not, because unidentified means precisely that, not interstellar, extraterrestrial etc. Not being able to identify or explain something, doesn't mean there isn't an explanation. Edited February 3, 2012 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Not being able to identify or explain something, doesn't mean there isn't an explanation. Exactly. Somebody once said, and I paraphrase, that technology of sufficient advancement is indistinguishable from magic. For centuries mankind has discovered things through science that baffled humans ever since humans were capable of bafflement. History is littered with examples. In centuries to come I've no doubt that people will scoff at us for the unenlightened dullards we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 So they have integrity but they are gullible. The conspiracy theorists are the gullible ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerberus Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Cerberus...the multi-headed monster. Your choice of screen name gives you away, as does your recent appearance on the forum... multiple personalities, i.e. multiple screen names...who are you really Cerberus? Come out from behind your troll name... Wow! this conspiracy theory thing is a doddle! Then you can tell us about the mirror left on the moon by the Apollo chaps, the one that numerous agencies worldwide reflect lasers from every single day to calculate the changing distance between us. Raja..bang on... Whats wrong diceman have i ruffled your feathers ? because you dont know nothing about me you come straight out on the attack typical caveman tactics to me how can you talk about multi personalities,multi screen names you rally are sad . perhaps you could start a conspiracy theory about me. and the mirror ? wasnt that left behind by elvis after his tour there in 96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerberus Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 have a look at the collapse video for building 7. come on blunderbuss lets hear your explanation for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) come on blunderbuss lets hear your explanation for this I've no idea what video he's on about. Nor am I the font of explanations for all things unexplained, nor am I going to go chasing all over t'interweb at the whim and direction of conspiracists. That way lies madness, paranoia and bacofoil headgear. Whatever it is, you give me YOUR explanation of it, and while your at it the mirror on the moon you glibly ignored above because it doesn't fit your faked landings theory. Unless you really do think Elvis put it there, which based on your other postings wouldn't surprise me in the slightest! Edited February 3, 2012 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I used to think shooters were (by and large) grounded, practical, down to earth people. Reading this forum recently has changed that view a little. Seems everyone is all too ready to believe in scary monsters, heebie jeebies and little green men ganging up with the CIA on the grassy knoll to brainwash and terrorise us all as part of some pangalactic masonic conspiracy. I am I the only one who thinks the real world is interesting, scary and dangerous enough without inventing fairy stories? Get a grip ***. I'm just saying...... Edit: on reflection, perhaps I shouldn't have put big cats in the same category as the paranormal stuff, as they clearly exist. Though I'm still not convinced they're living wild in the UK. I'm trying hard to keep this a civilised debate. Please don't put words into my mouth. At no point did I use the word 'halfwit', nor would I, nor do I think it of others who happen to take a different view, which includes good friends of mine. Re your example, FalconFN and Grandalf have already answered it perfectly well and better than I could. Is a fighter pilot of integrity gullible if he reports a UFO? No of course not, because unidentified means precisely that, not interstellar, extraterrestrial etc. Not being able to identify or explain something, doesn't mean there isn't an explanation. So you start a thread with the top statement and you want to keep it civilised? My use of the word 'halfwit' was, I admit, not a quote but the impression you gave of your opinion of those who don't agree with your world view. I know a lot more about the UFO subject than most here and there are a small percentage of UFO sightings that have credible witnesses and that are not explainable by prosaic phenomena. The conclusions reached by some very senior military people and scientists is that these appear to be intelligently controlled craft that are not of an earthly origin. It doesn't leave a lot of options as to where they come from does it? Edited February 3, 2012 by paul65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerberus Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I've no idea what video he's on about. Nor am I the font of explanations for all things unexplained, nor am I going to go chasing all over t'interweb at the whim and direction of conspiracists. That way lies madness, paranoia and bacofoil headgear. Whatever it is, you give me YOUR explanation of it, and while your at it the mirror on the moon you glibly ignored above because it doesn't fit your faked landings theory. Unless you really do think Elvis put it there, which based on your other postings wouldn't surprise me in the slightest! you dont know what video he speaks of ,but you are so quick to dismiss if you want to see it find it yourself. As for the mirror that was my attempt at sarcasm but you probably missed it because of your head being buried in the sand Edited February 3, 2012 by cerberus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorpeet Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Well they've not probed me yet even though I said they could :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I am a natural born skeptic , I don’t believe everything that is fed to me but that also includes conspiracy theories. The trouble with conspiracy theories is they are selective with the facts. 1 incident such as a shadow and they hammer it home but neglect to look at all the corroborating evidence to prove it did happened. So you have 1000 pieces of evidence to say it happened and 6 to say it didn’t. Conspiracy theorist suffer from Confirmation bias and look for what confirms their beliefs and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts their beliefs. Apart from magic beans, they are real, I want some, been looking for some for ages. Edited February 3, 2012 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Conspiracy theorist suffer from Confirmation bias and look for what confirms their beliefs and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts their beliefs. This is true but may also apply to anyone else too. Take for example the 'Out of Africa' timeline of human evolution. Once this theory was established, any evidence supporting it was accepted by anthropologists with minimal question but anything that cast doubt on it was ignored. There are 'human ancestors' in current books showing our evolutionary line that are known to be outright misidentifications, or questionable at best, but taking them out threatens to bring down the whole house of cards. So evidence that modern humans were in America, for example, far before we supposedly left Africa is disregarded and those who find and promote this evidence are shut out and shouted down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's simply just too many people all too ready to hop on the next train out of reasonville. I'm sorry but "small percentages with credible witnesses" and "conclusions reached by some very senior military people and scientists" just illustrate that "a larger percentage are based on incredible witnesses" and the "conclusions reached by the majority of senior military people and scientists" is that it's all a load of tosh. Some people see what they want not what is / was there. Each to their own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) This is quite a good explanation actually.When Darwin initially mooted his theory of evolution,it wasn't the fact that he was denying God as creator of all things which believers found disturbing,but the fact that if God didn't exist,then whatever happened in life was just random;natural life was in fact just a series of random acts with no rhyme or reason,often cruel,unpredictable and catastrophic for no apparent reason,and totally uncontrollable,no matter how many times a week you went to church and said your prayers.And this in fact is what life is.Nothing more,nor less. Same logic and rationale leads families in Africa for example to conclude their children must be haunted by the devil when bad things happen to the family. And in their minds that justifies them doing atrocious things to them as a result. Wonky thoughts that lead to wonky behaviour and wonky people defending the indefensible just because they need to find a reason / cause / something / someone to blame. Along the lines of "It can't be God's fault because we live by his rules so it must be the work of the devil. Oh, look the kids are acting weird, they must be the cause". Whereas of course anyone with a sane / rationale mind would realise the kids are behaving weird because they don't have the life experience and mental fortitude to help them deal with the problems like the adults do. Edited February 3, 2012 by Raja Clavata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Get a grip ***. I'm just saying...... So you start a thread with the top statement and you want to keep it civilised? Did you notice the two smilies, including the winking one? This thread was a response to a recent plethora of threads on the paranormal, ghosts, and UFOs. I posted a slightly p1sh taking thread to discuss it. Some people believe in some or all of these things, some don't, that fine. Most of the former bar you and Cerberus realised it wasn't serious and entered into the cut and thrust and fun of it and aired their views, as did I and others. They didn't take it as a personal affront. Friends of mine on this forum, people I've met in real life, not just on the internet believe some of the stuff which I am gently mocking on this thread. We can agree to disagree, manage not to throw our toys out of the pram and stay civil. You seem to struggle with that. You believe want you want to believe and I'll happily debate it with you, but not if you're going to get all mardy ***** and precious about it As for the mirror that was my attempt at sarcasm but you probably missed it because of your head being buried in the sand I didn't miss the fact that you've directly dodged explaining, twice, how the lunar retro reflector experiment fits in with your theory that the moon landings were faked? Unless the thousands of students and staff of MIT and other academic establishments and observatories in Germany, Mexico and all around the world are liars and co conspirators like the crews of Apollo 11, 14 and 15? As well as the whole of NASA their friends and families? Liars, all of them Pray tell us your view on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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