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How much lead ?


throdgrain
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My first shotgun was a Winchester 101 with 28" barrels. I hit some clays, but I never felt truely happy with it. Anyway, I bought a black Mossberg 500 with a 28" barrel, that I love. Obviously with the reciever etc the Mossberg is longer than the Winchester, you could say it has the equivelant of 30" barrels on a normal over-under.

The only problem with the Mossberg is the reloading, obviously its not really quick enough, and definately not for skeet pairs! (I have tried :lol: ) Im keeping that for hunting.

So , with this in mind Ive bought a Benelli M2 semi-auto, which has (the equivalent) of say 31 or 32" barrels. What Ive found is that, whilst Im hitting most stuff I would expect to hit, crossers are escaping me completely.

So my question is this: with a longer barrel, is it the accepted theory to give more lead on crossers , or less? I know I can find out with some more trial and error, but if anyone here can help me out and save me a few quid on clays Id greatly appreciate it :)

Any help out there ? :)

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Firstly, no one can tell you how much lead to give a bird or clay without seeing you shoot.

 

For example I always shoot clay as a socila thing so there is never less than 2 of us and normally 5 or 6, and no one sees the same amount of lead. If I ask one of mates what he 'gave' a clay i would need to divide that by 2 or 3 to get what I see.

 

If you hava longer gun, it may have slowed your swing down a touch, which has upset your timing, so try pushing it through the bird a bit quicker or maybe bringing your left hand (for a right hander) back towards you a bit on the forend, that can also impeed swing - but as I said it is virtualy impossible to answer without seeing you shoot. I had to make some changes when I went from a Beretta 686 28" to 687 30" as the 30" is lot heavier, it made me much steadier on long shots or quick second barrel shots, but I did had tell my self to get a move on the closer/quicker ones.

 

It could also be gun fit, sight picture etc etc

 

Let's see what the others think

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Thanks for the reply, and I suspect you maybe right, however its always nice to get other peoples opinions. I was amazed the other day when I got 0 out of 10 crossers. (Amazed may not be the correct word ...)

I did get the feeling I should go through the clay faster.

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firstly i must agree with all Stuartp said above, without seeing you shoot its imposible to give the right answer.

 

may i suggest you give this a go, if you shoot skeet then you could try shooting from station 2 high say 6 birds move to station 3, 6 more birds on to station 4 6 more birds, each time you move around a skeet field the angle increases to give the optimunm crosser at station 4 , see if you can pick up a good sight picture on 2 and 3 prior to moving to st4 each time your effective lead will increase you should be mentaly compesatingthe change, if you faill move back a station and hit 6 move on again, the only real way is practice, this exercise you can do alone or with a friend, having some on you 6 can be a help only if they know the game, dont expect a friend of equal ability to correct your problems look higher up the skill tree.

good luck, and i hope this may help you out.

 

 

Martin

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Hi there,

I experienced problems with this at first. I done brilliantly on clays, my tution was free as my tutor wanted to train me to go to competions etc as the moment i picked a gun up, i shot straight with it. With a little bit of basic help and some pointers i soon started improving and improving. After maybe 3 months i went pigeon shooting with a friend of mine and had the worst time of my life ever. Couldnt hit a anything, not anything. I started asking myself the usuall question:

too much/not enough lead?

not suitable cartridge?

not suitable gun?

invincible pigeons?

 

But the main thing that got me through it was not giving up. When other people was bagging 40 or 50 birds and i was coming back empty handed, had the micky taken out of me by every one there, i felt like chucking the gun on the floor and going home. But after many a time going there empty handed and coming back the same, i gradually started to increase my bag, which increased my confidence and i have been gradually improving since. To this day i still find pigeon shooting one of the most chanllenging of all quarry, even more so that january pheasants or english partridge.

As my head keeper told me, shooting is 80% mentality, once you have trained yourself mentaly then you will start hitting your quarry. Hope you continue on, even though you may feel like giving up

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Pattern it to make sure it is shooting where you are looking. Benelli's come with shims for the stock to adjust the height, it may be set too high or low for you at the moment. Benelli's are also light and you may need some time to get used to its handling.

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Im thinking patterning is the answer now a bit. im also thinking that Im thinking too much about it.

My synthetic Mossberg is slightly lighter than the M2, so Im not concerned about that. I know the M2 ia adjustable, though Im not sure the naughty shop keeper gave me all the shims, as i cant find any in the box. However it does seem to come to the eye quite easily...

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If you had a pattern problem you would also be missing going away birds. Try watching the bird and keeping your swing smooth, push through the bird and when it feels right pull the trigger, and most importantly keep the gun moving......too many people miss behind because they stop the gun as they pull the trigger. If you start watching how much lead you are giving the bird you'll start tracking and you'll miss behind. This was the advice given to me and it sorted me out, hope it helps.

P03

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Thanks for the post. Its becoming a nightmare now. On sunday I did a round of 50 sporting and got ... 10!!!

Yes, 10. Im not the greatest shot in the world, but I normally get 25-30 , sometimes more, with my Mossberg pump, and thats with 3 or 4 shells jamming (see previous posts! :D )

Im beginning to think its just me fitting the gun better, and stopping thinking about it all the time. I reckon Im not keeping my head down enough, and firing higher because of it. bah.

Ive got to stick with it, and Ill be ok (I hope :blink: )

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Thanks for the post. Its becoming a nightmare now. On sunday I did a round of 50 sporting and got ... 10!!!

Yes, 10. Im not the greatest shot in the world, but I normally get 25-30 , sometimes more, with my Mossberg pump, and thats with 3 or 4 shells jamming (see previous posts! :) )

Im beginning to think its just me fitting the gun better, and stopping thinking about it all the time. I reckon Im not keeping my head down enough, and firing higher because of it. bah.

Ive got to stick with it, and Ill be ok (I hope :beer: )

 

 

stop over analyzing everything, your going to end up old fast trying to figure out the perfect solution, when you go out try to improove in a regular way, your not going to shoot from say 60% to 80% overnight this comes with dedication and practice, look to increase your score by say 5 targets over the next 2-3 visits, keeping this consistency will regulate your improovement, again look for a good club shooter to give you a few tips and work on them, dont overload your brain with every fact about breaking targets, you cant do it, pick a couple you know you have a problem with and work them, baby steps my friend, it will all come together in the end, percevere but always have fun. :drinks::drinks:

 

 

Martin

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I’m always amazed at the number of people who shoot (badly) that have never had a lesson in their lives. Why for the sake of a few quid not find out how to shoot better, all the more to enjoy your sport and get the best from it. Find a good coach and spend some money.

 

Patterning your gun WITH the cartridges you intend to use the most is the first step. You must know how it performs at certain ranges with particular types of cartridges. A gun that fits is a great help but it doesn’t necessarily have to be specially fitted. If it’s close and you’re not going in for major prize winnings then you can adjust yourself to the gun (a little).

 

Lead (that’s lead NOT lead :drinks: ) is a very personal matter as everyone sees it differently. Some people will see it in inches/millimetres (for the younger generation) some in feet/centimetres and then again some in yards/metres. It’s a lot to do with your sight picture. Some see lead from the rear of the gun, some from the business end and some way out at the target. That’s why it’s no good asking your mates! Find out what you see and you’re half way there. Vary it for target speed/direction and whether it’s a left to right or right to left target (and if you don’t know why you’ll have to ask) and you’re there!

 

Best advice is get down to your nearest club (and I don’t mean your local Sunday knock about) find a professional coach you’re happy with and have some lessons. They will pay for themselves in enjoyment over and over. Personally I’d pick a coach with proven abilities, might cost a bit more but hey how much are you spending on your shooting anyway. I remember having an argument with a pal about the cost of Bismuth cartridges for wildfowling. He was bemoaning the cost standing there in all his kit, a £200 pair of wellies, a coat and matching over trousers costing £400 odd, a gun that cost over £1500 and all the little add ons and he couldn’t see my point. What cost enjoyment?

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I’m always amazed at the number of people who shoot (badly) that have never had a lesson in their lives. Why for the sake of a few quid not find out how to shoot better, all the more to enjoy your sport and get the best from it. Find a good coach and spend some money.

 

You cant have read the whole thread. I was getting 25-30 ex 50 sporting (maybe 32 on a good day) with my Mossberg pump action, and as much as 20 on a round of skeet. Thats with sometimes as many as 3 or 4 jams out of 50 too. So, Im not the worlds best by a long shot, but I can shoot some. And yes I had a lesson or two when I started shooting.

I bought the Benelli because i wanted a similar gun but more reliable. It's proved very reliable, but my scores have halved. Hence the thread!

I do have some ideas though, and my next round should see them coming to fruition. As someone here said, Im thinking to much and not shooting naturally anymore. This is about to change :good:

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You cant have read the whole thread. I was getting 25-30 ex 50 sporting (maybe 32 on a good day) with my Mossberg pump action, and as much as 20 on a round of skeet. Thats with sometimes as many as 3 or 4 jams out of 50 too. So, Im not the worlds best by a long shot, but I can shoot some. And yes I had a lesson or two when I started shooting.

I bought the Benelli because i wanted a similar gun but more reliable. Its prvoed very reliable, but my scores have halved. Hence the thread!

I do havbe some ideads though, and my next round should see them coming to fruition. As someone here said, Im thinknig to much and not shooting naturally anymore. This is about to change :)

 

i think i can safely say the responce from Highlander was not intended to offend you, i think he was refering to his experience with the volume of people who think, without the right direction/coaching/lessons, persist in finding fault with their scores and blame the world and his/her wife, he pointed out as i have and others you need to find someone with standing to evaluate your shooting style/prowess, this will give you more confidence and will reflect on your scores.

 

try a lessomn or two and let us know how it goes :good:

 

Martin

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