North Region Selection Shoot Cancelled

[Ian E]

Terry Deakin, NR Sporting Team Manager reports that the North Region/County Team selection shoot due to be held at Coniston SG on Sunday 13th May 2012 has been cancelled forthwith.

 

This decision has been made by the Management of the ground, citing 'unforseen circumstances'. It is understood that a major factor in the ground deciding to cancel this event is due to severe verbal abuse of referees and ground & office staff by a number of shooters at the recent England Team selection shoot.

 

The North Region committee point out that any offensive or abusive behaviour at registered shoots is completely unacceptable, and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the individuals concerned.

 

It is not intended to re-arrange this shoot, and the remaining NR selection shoots will go ahead as scheduled. The best 3 scores from the remaining selection shoots will be counted towards Regional and County Team selection.

 

http://sites.cpsa.co.uk/north/news/2012/04/22/2012-north-region-sporting-selection-shoot-at-coniston-cancelled

[beretta]

well thats a bad do! some serious talking needed.

[southrop]

That is disgraceful behaviour but not unexpected given all the moaning and groaning about the targets.

I think those individuals should be ashamed of themselves and publicly named.

If they can't hit the damn targets maybe they should take a lesson!!

[timps]

I wonder how this is going to affect other registered shoots held there?

There is already a lack of registered grounds in the north,we could do without losing another one.

 

I have been to a number of bad shoots and never felt the need to abuse anyone, I will just vote with my feet and not return or just moan on here and Facebook

 

I have been to some very good shoots at Coniston so it's a shame this one shoot has caused so much trouble because of a few mindless morons and their overreactions.

[100milesaway]

I have just written a letter to Coniston to apologise to Peter and his staff for the disgraceful attitude by the few that will affect so many of us in the north.The CPSA North Committee have worked so hard in this last couple of years on our behalf to get more venues to participate in our selection proccess and overnight a few morons undo all of that in the blink of an eye.I would ask all of you that will be affected by this to E- Mail Peter and hope if enough people contact him, it may well not be the end of Coniston as a Sporting venue.I would also hope that Peter in return reports the offenders to the CPSA.We all know what a tough shoot it was but that is no reason to blame the staff at the ground. from Auntie.

[phil moss]

I have just written a letter to Coniston to apologise to Peter and his staff for the disgraceful attitude by the few that will affect so many of us in the north.The CPSA North Committee have worked so hard in this last couple of years on our behalf to get more venues to participate in our selection proccess and overnight a few morons undo all of that in the blink of an eye.I would ask all of you that will be affected by this to E- Mail Peter and hope if enough people contact him, it may well not be the end of Coniston as a Sporting venue.I would also hope that Peter in return reports the offenders to the CPSA.We all know what a tough shoot it was but that is no reason to blame the staff at the ground. from Auntie.

 

Mmmmm.......is this how its done in the north then :sly:

 

Maybe another thing to consider if im going to run reg events at MCSC !!!!! :angry:

I certainly wont tolerate the verbal abuse to any of my staff at the ground, my shoulders are broad & will deal with any gripes or moans on a one to one basis....there was a list of jury members posted quiet clearly and any complaints should of been dealt with in the correct procedure :oops:

 

Mossy

[Azzurri]

Lynne... I fully agree and you've put it far better than I ever could. This whole situation is crazy and needs properly sorting out, I feel sorry for Peter and his team and also the North Region Committee as so much hard work by all involved has been ruined.

[Azzurri]

Phil... This isn't how things are done up north, we know how little sporting we have up here and appreciate what we get. It's taken a long time to get Coniston on board and i'm well ****** that it only took a few people to **** it up.

[denniswebb]

I made my feeling clear to the ground manager Keith Roe, i thought the refs did a good job,when i had problems seeing the impossible tower orange midi against a bright sky the ref was very understanding, the ground should not have stopped doing food so early, when so many shooters had travelled so far and could get nothing hot to eat after they had finished...Why is it that this shoot was over 1 day, when Westfield was over 2. I would have shot the saturday if given a choice....But the real problem was the lack of control by the Region, someone should have vetted the targets,but isn't this par for the course for the CPSA, they show almost no interest in sporting shooters and wonder why things like this happen.

 

I would need a lot of convincing before i ventured up north again.

Perhaps the time has come to take selection shoots away from control (what control some might say) of the regions and elevated them to what they should be premiour events in the sporting calender and not an earner for regional coffers.

 

Dennis

[Gordon R]

I am of the opinion that 100milesaway struck the right note.

 

Whether you like the place, the targets etc, it is no excuse to abuse the staff. Making a point is one thing, but the phrase used is "severe verbal abuse".

 

It is pathetic and unacceptable. Shooters should know better.

 

Dennis

 

But the real problem was the lack of control by the Region, someone should have vetted the targets,but isn't this par for the course for the CPSA, they show almost no interest in sporting shooters and wonder why things like this happen.

 

I would need a lot of convincing before i ventured up north again.

Perhaps the time has come to take selection shoots away from control (what control some might say) of the regions and elevated them to what they should be premiour events in the sporting calender and not an earner for regional coffers.

 

I have not been in the CPSA for a number of years, but think you are doing them a disservice.

 

If Coniston have been reported correctly, it begs the question as to what has CPSA control got to do with loud mouthed, ignorant idiots

[Ian E]

Dennis, may I just point out that Keith Roe was the course setter, Peter Manley is the grounds manager.

 

Weather the event is run over one or two days is strictly down to the ground owner, 2 days double the costs, I'm sure the ground would like to see some profit in the days events. I doubt anymore people would of turned up to shoot if it was over two.

 

As for the food, I expect they ran out, but you drive past a very nice hotel on your way out of the ground, if you were desperate to eat something hot.

 

As for the organization of these events it falls to the local region to do this, but that doesn't go beyond asking the ground to supply us with a date.

 

I personally could never see a situation were a member of the committee would "vet" the targets, Keith Roe is a far more experienced course setter then any member of the North region committee.

 

There are a very limited number of grounds in the North region, maybe your blessed with a huge amount you can pick and choose from down south ? We clearly have to work with what we have, and belive me, the Region needs the ground more then the grounds needs the local CPSA in most cases.

 

I think you can see from the above posts it's a very sad day that a small number of shooters (I expect from outside the region) have lead to this chain of events.

 

I certainly hope that it doesn't effect future events there.

 

And I do hope you will return up' North sooner rather then later

Edited April 23, 2012 by Ian E

[100milesaway]

I made my feeling clear to the ground manager Keith Roe, i thought the refs did a good job,when i had problems seeing the impossible tower orange midi against a bright sky the ref was very understanding, the ground should not have stopped doing food so early, when so many shooters had travelled so far and could get nothing hot to eat after they had finished...Why is it that this shoot was over 1 day, when Westfield was over 2. I would have shot the saturday if given a choice....But the real problem was the lack of control by the Region, someone should have vetted the targets,but isn't this par for the course for the CPSA, they show almost no interest in sporting shooters and wonder why things like this happen.

 

I would need a lot of convincing before i ventured up north again.

Perhaps the time has come to take selection shoots away from control (what control some might say) of the regions and elevated them to what they should be premiour events in the sporting calender and not an earner for regional coffers.

 

Dennis

The Northern Region CPSA are the same as all the different CPSA committee area reps, who all work UNPAID putting something back into a sport which most of them are proud to represent and it's things like this that make it a very thankless task . The ground always do the selection over one day as it would mean shutting up the rest of the shooting facilities for 2 days which would lose the ground income.Keith only sets the targets at Coniston, and i think in the main does a very good job. I for 1 don't want to lose this ground. from Auntie.

[dougall]

How sad.

To be a competitor is good to be a sportsman is better.

[Salopian]

Dennis Webb very often opens his mouth before engaging brain.

There is no excuse for anyone verbally or physically abusing anyone at all.

I sincerely hope that the culprits will be named, shamed, and penalised.

Unfortunately we now live in society where hear say is not good enough, you will need fact and witnesses who are prepared to make a statement of truth and not deviate from the truth when further questioned.

Dennis as usual you have gobbed off without thinking it through.

 

To the owners of Coniston, I can only apologise on behalf of the many many good guys and gals who participate in Sporting Clayshooting. Don't be put off by a few gob****es.

[phil moss]

Dennis Webb very often opens his mouth before engaging brain.

There is no excuse for anyone verbally or physically abusing anyone at all.

I sincerely hope that the culprits will be named, shamed, and penalised.

Unfortunately we now live in society where hear say is not good enough, you will need fact and witnesses who are prepared to make a statement of truth and not deviate from the truth when further questioned.

Dennis as usual you have gobbed off without thinking it through.

 

To the owners of Coniston, I can only apologise on behalf of the many many good guys and gals who participate in Sporting Clayshooting. Don't be put off by a few gob****es.

 

Dennis = :rolleyes: :o

[Salopian]

Mr. Phil have you filled in the pot holes yet? :)

[denniswebb]

Firstly i spent 20 years on Counties and Region committees and have done for more to support this sport, both financially and deeds than most that take part in it, and i have recieved awards for that work.....Most of the moaning came from Northerners, they were embarished that this was the best they could offer as a selection shoot. Keith is a long standing mate and we shoot a lot together overseas. I never relied on a hot meal at this shoot because i stayed in a local hotel over night, i am just reporting what other shooters stated.

 

Is it no wonder you get **** from shooters when you treat them in this manner, they ain't fodder, feed them manure and shove em out to pasture. Forget about the stupid targets, its the queues and trying to get through 15 stands, far too many shooters crammed into a short window, then they go back to the clubhouse and its shut....Is it no wonder that Fitasc International events are full and the CPSA struggle, they know how to treat there customers, the CPSA are clueless, what happened to the sporting committee.

 

I know If Phil Moss stages the selection shoot next year he will get it right. Keith told me that at his last shoot he had complaints that it was too easy, so decided to raise the level of difficulty, he just got it wrong that all. It worked for me, I won the old **** section, and keith was second.

 

Dennis

[Catamong]

This appears to me to be a case of "cutting your nose off to spite your face", as the real losers here are the local Northern shooters who are regulars at the ground, and were probably the least critical of the quality of the shoot.

 

I wouldn't mind betting that nearly all of the complaints were from shooters of other Regions, most of whom had travelled hundreds of miles to shoot the event, and felt angry enough to complain. They're not very likely to want to shoot a North Region selection shoot.

 

Most people just vote with their feet and make a mental note never to go back there, it must have been a pretty awful shoot to have had that many complaints.

 

Cat.

[Mungler]

Who would want to pay a bundle and travel hundreds of miles to throw abuse at grounds staff?

 

Just how bad did it get

 

I'm not sticking up for bad behaviour because that's easily dealt with - say / do it again and you're going home.

 

I love the response to "there was no hot food" was "eat somewhere else". That's the way to put the paying punters first

[Ian E]

Mungler as I presume you were there from your comments, who said "eat somewhere else" ? re hot food..

Edited April 24, 2012 by Ian E

[Mungler]

Up North?

 

Nah, the grounds staff can't keep control of the shooters, the targets are set up poorly and the canteens run out of grub. Who would want to pay and drive hundreds of miles for that

[Ian E]

Mungler thanks you for those kind comments, I will be sure to pass them onto the ground when the North region meets with them to try and encourage them to carry on holding major events there, rather then taking notice of narrow-minded, idiots..

 

 

 

:lol:

Edited April 24, 2012 by Ian E

[Mungler]

Of all the things I have been called, narrow minded is a new one

 

I just don't get what the fuss is about? If "paying customers" get antsy then the first thing to do is actually look at what they are complaining about and to then work out if the complaints (albeit poorly delivered) are justified.

 

Threats and abuse etc. are not on and are easily dealt with - "button it or leave immediately".

 

However, if the majority are unhappy (some will vocalise, others will just leave quietly and not return) then there's a problem with the ground, not the customers, and it won't ever get any better for anyone.

 

All issues should have been sorted out on the day and at the ground.

[Ian E]

haha

 

It was just a tuff course, you had to work for pretty much every clay, imo as it should be on an England selection shoot, otherwise everything would be on the end of your barrels like most of the other shoots we attend.

 

Anywho's as everyone agrees, yourself included, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with these matters, and being abusive towards the ground staff isn't the correct way, and is totally unacceptable.

 

And to be perfectly honest I don't blame Coniston for making a stand ! but it clearly has a major knock on effect for the region.

[Mungler]

But it's daft to do the toys out of the pram thing after the event when dealing with the issues on the day was within their direct and immediate control.

 

It sounds like an excuse to bail or a cop out.

 

Indeed, why poke up with abusive shooters all day and then have a tantrum afterwards - how does that:

 

1. help the ground; or,

2. deal with the issues raised by the (abusive) shooters; or,

3. deal with the abusive shooters; or,

4. help or achieve anything?

 

Very bizarre. I can only assume that the ground was looking for an excuse to bail.