al4x Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 For once they have a point, all you cat lovers get a bell on it http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2157938/BBC-Springwatch-star-Chris-Packham-warns-pet-cats-ruining-environment.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smig4373 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 For once they have a point, all you cat lovers get a bell on it http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2157938/BBC-Springwatch-star-Chris-Packham-warns-pet-cats-ruining-environment.html :stupid: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Bells don`t work, they tend to get better hunters. 100yds from the owners house IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pelt man Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) For once they have a point, all you cat lovers get a bell on it http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2157938/BBC-Springwatch-star-Chris-Packham-warns-pet-cats-ruining-environment.html [/quoteinto I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but come on Al4x lets get it into prospective. Before we blame Cats for the decline in songbird numbers lets take a look closer to home. How many gardens are now block paved, decked or shingled these days. destroying birds feeding grounds. Then we rip out all the hedges between gardens and put up fences, new plastic soffits and face boards destroying all nest sites. Then the use of pestersides to kill the bugs on our plants. As for farming Also ripping out hedgerows to make larger fields,and the use of pestersides thers no insect life around. I put a post up a couple of years ago about the lack of dead flies on the windscreen after a drive in the country these days. I remember when you had to wash your windscreen after every trip out. So lets not make the cat the scapegoat and listening to ***** who are narrow minded. By the way, even though my wife has a Cat I cant stand the bloody things PELTY Edited June 12, 2012 by the pelt man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Packham's a bit of a bell himself. As the more enlightened have already pointed out, there's more to songbird decline in the UK than simply pointing the paw at moggies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Packham's a bit of a bell himself. As the more enlightened have already pointed out, there's more to songbird decline in the UK than simply pointing the paw at moggies. True but not much...Moggy is the no 1 culprit and by a long way. I breed finches and i would advocate not a bell but a bead on it and then a slow squeeze... Edited June 12, 2012 by Fisherman Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtailhawk1 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Have w Bell on my cat and makes very little difference. Although she gets mostly mice, not many bids at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Have w Bell on my cat and makes very little difference. Although she gets mostly mice, not many bids at all Thats because many birds are not brought back to the house. Unlike mice they can fly off when released for "play" so they either are killed immediately and partially devoured, or are unlucky enough to escape mortally wounded either to die slowly of shock or blood loss. Im ashamed to say we had a cat once and one year it brought back over 100 small birds up to the size of a blackbird including many fledglings...Thats 2 a week average. Multiply that by a couple of million times plus and you will soon see where all the song birds are going. Edited June 12, 2012 by Fisherman Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtailhawk1 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Thats because many birds are not brought back to the house. Unlike mice they can fly off when released for "play" so they either are killed immediately and partially devoured, or are unlucky enough to escape mortally wounded either to die slowly of shock or blood loss. Im ashamed to say we had a cat once and one year it brought back over 100 small birds up to the size of a blackbird including many fledglings...Thats 2 a week average. Multiply that by a couple of million times plus and you will soon see where all the song birds are going. Either brought back to the house or not By the way I do not like cats. It's my daughters suppose it keeps the mice down and no rats around the chickens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern01 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I have watched the magpies and the crows take the eggs and fledglings every year in my garden. They sit for ages at a vantage point and watch the parent birds movements to locate the nests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Years ago the old rhyme, "One for sorrow, Two for joy, etc." used to come true. You rarely saw more than a couple of magpies together. Look at it now, flocks of the damn things. They are reducing the song birds drastically to the point where it makes a change to hear one sing. They are too cunning for their own good as well. It's time there was a gereral cull on them. I may be mistaken but I seem to remember, in the far distant past, there was a bounty paid on magpie tails Maybe it's time to re-instate that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Is this the longest thread ever featuring Cats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pelt man Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Thats because many birds are not brought back to the house. Unlike mice they can fly off when released for "play" so they either are killed immediately and partially devoured, or are unlucky enough to escape mortally wounded either to die slowly of shock or blood loss. Im ashamed to say we had a cat once and one year it brought back over 100 small birds up to the size of a blackbird including many fledglings...Thats 2 a week average. Multiply that by a couple of million times plus and you will soon see where all the song birds are going. What utter rubbish You are taking an estimate of the songbirds that remain after 70 MILLION PEOPLE have had there impact on the songbird population in one way or another and continue to do so. In my 48 years i've had 4 Cats and put together they have never killed 100 in there lives. How can you count birds that they don't bring home, you dont see them so how the hell do you know the Cat got the birds in the first place I hate Cats but please, while Cats do take Birds they only take a percentage of whats left after we (people) have decimated the population. MAN IS THEY PROBLEM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) What utter rubbish You are taking an estimate of the songbirds that remain after 70 MILLION PEOPLE have had there impact on the songbird population in one way or another and continue to do so. In my 48 years i've had 4 Cats and put together they have never killed 100 in there lives. How can you count birds that they don't bring home, you dont see them so how the hell do you know the Cat got the birds in the first place I hate Cats but please, while Cats do take Birds they only take a percentage of whats left after we (people) have decimated the population. MAN IS THEY PROBLEM No Thats fact..Your cats are obviously pampered and dont get out much and are inefficient hunters...Sorry your in self denial...consider Cats Lover Anonymouse Edited June 13, 2012 by Fisherman Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I don't want to get into the age old argument about cats and cat lovers but (To an extent) what Chris Packham says is true. The only thing that I would say about putting some kind of a "curfew" on cats is how in heavens name could it be implimented? You would have to have some sort of a "homing device" fitted to your moggy to automatically bring it back home and indoors at say 21:00 hours each night? Maybe if your moggy broke it's curfew it could be served with an ASBO! Come on, get real, no matter if you love them or hate them they are one of the most "independent" of all domestic pets! I'm sure that cats are responsible for the decline in song birds to a certain expent but so too are the many other "wild animals" that roam out countryside and I suspect that the "collection" and numbers of the "naturally wild predators" are responsible to a much greater extent for the decline in song birds than "domestic" cats are! Love 'em or hate'em, lets keep this "debate/discussion" sensible and not turn it into a "shoot every cat" thread so that it gets closed down as it is a subject that is well worth sensible discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 indeed frenchie, while its hard to argue our impact on songbirds work out the number of millions of cats living in urban areas where no agricultural chemicals are used and you can see if they only ate one a year each it is big numbers. Our garden for one reason and another is a cat free zone we've 3 birdboxes up and had successful broods of blue tits in all of them. If you think about the insect life aspect well thats only a small part of the year as the rest insect life is slim anyway. We've had a couple of covers in the last few years and the mixes now with small seeds sees them alive with small birds all winter so agriculture can do its part. The main bit was its nice to see the BBC showing something rather than covering it up to cleanse the tv viewing public of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pelt man Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) No Thats fact..Your cats are obviously pampered and dont get out much and are inefficient hunters...Sorry your in self denial...consider Cats Lover Anonymouse FACT :lol: At no point are you addressing the impact Man is making on the songbird population or if it be greater than puss. I have admitted that Cats do take birds so i'm not in Denial, but as said before they are only taking a percentage of what is left after our impact. Before pointing the finger at Cats, i think you will find Grey Squirrels and Magpies account for a greater number of songbird deaths than Cats. Anyway, it still comes back to us. Man brought the Grey Squirrel to this country and its Man that keeps Cats as pets SO ITS OUR FAULT :P So dont be as thick as the tree your table was made from (destroying bird nest sites and homes for millions of bugs to feed them) WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PELTY Edited June 13, 2012 by the pelt man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pelt man Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) indeed frenchie, while its hard to argue our impact on songbirds work out the number of millions of cats living in urban areas where no agricultural chemicals are used and you can see if they only ate one a year each it is big numbers. Our garden for one reason and another is a cat free zone we've 3 birdboxes up and had successful broods of blue tits in all of them. If you think about the insect life aspect well thats only a small part of the year as the rest insect life is slim anyway. We've had a couple of covers in the last few years and the mixes now with small seeds sees them alive with small birds all winter so agriculture can do its part. The main bit was its nice to see the BBC showing something rather than covering it up to cleanse the tv viewing public of reality. Poor Frenchie, leave him alone. its me thats having a pop :lol: While you are doing your bit theres millions of people not. As for the MILLIONS of urban Cats , they can only kill what lives in our urban areas and that ain't Millions of songbirds. This is because of lack of food and nest sites (which even you admit to by putting up nest boxes) not Cats killing them. Agriculture dose do its bit, but you see your covers alive with small birds because theres no where else to go to feed. I know many more farms that dont grow cover than do. However at least the goverment know what is causing the decline in birds, hence the grants to Farmers for setaside. If You and others care to belive that Cats are the baine of Songbirds, then so bit it. At least i know my vision is a bit wider than yours PELTY Edited June 13, 2012 by the pelt man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 The bit that really gets up my nose with cat owners is when you complain about their cat crapping in your garden they come out with "well, it's a wild animal after all". When you threaten to blow it to Kingdom come they change to "oh, don't do that, it's part of the family after all" So come on, what's it to be? Is it a pet, that you should be controling, or is it a wild animal that anyone can eradicate? Make your minds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Nature finds a balance and fluctuations in song bird populations harmonize with that of their natural avian predators. However Cats are not a native natural predator, their numbers are burgeoning out of control for every one domestic cat in this country there is another one feral. Yes sure I agree, loss of habitatat and nest sites are also partly to blame but cats are by far the most culpible. Not only that I would say with confidence that 85 % of Domestic cat owners really couldnt give a toss about their pets comings and goings particularly as its the Cats Independance that attacts them to it in the first place...Get one, put in a cat flap, feed once a day, and forget it. Tell me Im wrong!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pelt man Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Nature finds a balance and fluctuations in song bird populations harmonize with that of their natural avian predators. However Cats are not a native natural predator, their numbers are burgeoning out of control for every one domestic cat in this country there is another one feral. Yes sure I agree, loss of habitatat and nest sites are also partly to blame but cats are by far the most culpible. Not only that I would say with confidence that 85 % of Domestic cat owners really couldnt give a toss about their pets comings and goings particularly as its the Cats Independance that attacts them to it in the first place...Get one, put in a cat flap, feed once a day, and forget it. Tell me Im wrong!!! YOUR WRONG :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 yup they put up lots and lots of posters when they don't come home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smig4373 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) What utter rubbish You are taking an estimate of the songbirds that remain after 70 MILLION PEOPLE have had there impact on the songbird population in one way or another and continue to do so. In my 48 years i've had 4 Cats and put together they have never killed 100 in there lives. How can you count birds that they don't bring home, you dont see them so how the hell do you know the Cat got the birds in the first place I hate Cats but please, while Cats do take Birds they only take a percentage of whats left after we (people) have decimated the population. MAN IS THEY PROBLEM Make your mind up... :no: Edited June 13, 2012 by smig4373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pelt man Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Make your mind up... :no: My Mind is made up They have all been "HOUSE CATS" :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 My Mind is made up They have all been "HOUSE CATS" :P argh disgusting critters, my mates new wife came with 3 that can't be let out I'd have taken a cricket bat to them by now, if they used the litter tray all the time they wouldn't be so bad but the bath come on thats justifiable cat homicide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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