pros shooting

[digger]

ok here goes.got a real bee in my bonnet about pro clay shooters turning up at local clay shoots and walking it.cant hit clays for toffee but if its a pool shoot and then with half an hour to go mr digweed turns up,shoots 99 ex 100 what the hell is the point in anyone else entering ? fair play he is a good shot but driving round four clay grounds and mugging every one isnt exactly fair.

bit like my monday night football team drawing chelsea

dont tell me its the way to make it to international level,its a way of making £600 + on a sunday,tax free.

maybe its to pay for bait ? :(

[Millomite]

I think it shouldnt be allowed, especially if its guys just going for a bit of fun or practice, which in the majority of cases it is

[Mungler]

My normal club on a Sunday is run from waste ground at the end of a series of scrap yards and next to a permanent travellers encampment.

 

Not much chance of any pro's venturing in to steel our silverware (I mean plastic).

[paulos]

if you hold a shoot with prize money of more than 50 quid they will soon show up! they seem to be able to smell it on the breeze!

[pin]

Every private clay shoot (unregistered) can have any terms and conditions it wants. If you don't want pro shooters enterting, then simply have that on the flyer or on the sign at the entrance to the shoot.

 

If I were organising one I would have a "pro" section to the shoot into which all attending pro shooters that day would be entered, sharing the combined entry fee as prizes for first, second and third.

 

This way it is kept fair. Any pros that turn up will have the competition they need to keep them sharp, no point shooting a local club layout easily, what practice is that? They will have the moral high ground from not mugging joe soap who's only been shooting for 4 months (blush) and the mere mortals will have a fair chance at the prizes on offer

 

Thats what I would do :(

[MC]

My philosophy to shooting is to beat the best guy there, so should Faulds or Digweed turn up then they become my target to beat. Not much chance of that granted, but a target to beat all the same.

 

As for them travelling around to win the money, so be it. If that is where they get their kicks then let them get on with it.

 

If I was a world class shooter I wouldn't find it much of a boost to go and win a local sunday morning shoot. I shoot because I enjoy it and enjoy the company and the crack. The moment that goes then I'll do something else.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Catamong]

Obviously the grapes are tasting pretty sour today...??

 

Let's be clear, nobody, not even Faulds & Digweed, could live off the money they get from winning Clay shoots in this country, and that's a fact. The prize funds are simply not big enough.

 

They do, however earn big money from sponsorship deals, coaching, appearance money at corporate events, and running a sporting agency.

 

Don't forget that guy's at that level have put so much effort into their game to get where they are, because when you're doing the garden, watching the footie or whatever you enjoy doing, you can bet they're out shooting somewhere. If they put that much into it don't they deserve to win..??

 

Clay shooting is a unique sport, in that you can compete alongside the "Pro's" in the British Open, simply by paying your money and turning up. You can use whatever gun and cartridge you like, within the specified rules, and all you have to do is to break more targets than them, it's that simple.

 

You certainly can't do that in Golf, Tennis, Football, Rugby, Darts, etc.

 

These "pro's" can be beaten, all you've got to do is to serve the apprenticeship, and be prepared to put Clay Shooting before your marriage, job, kids, other hobbies and absolutely everything else.

 

Cat.

[henry d]

So natural ability doesn`t come into it then?? I think it does.

[Dunkield]

I would say that is the starting point, and then do what Cat says and build on that.

If you have no natural ability whatsoever, no amount of prctice/tuition/money can get you up with the top boys.

 

Most of us need it all to be right to have a good day, most of us know someone who can hit most things with any gun, cartridge, jacket (whatever else we call variables) even with a screaming hangover - that is natural ability, and its the sort of thing that could be capitalised on.

[the last engineer]

I would say that is the starting point, and then do what Cat says and build on that.

If you have no natural ability whatsoever, no amount of prctice/tuition/money can get you up with the top boys.

 

Most of us need it all to be right to have a good day, most of us know someone who can hit most things with any gun, cartridge, jacket (whatever else we call variables) even with a screaming hangover - that is natural ability, and its the sort of thing that could be capitalised on.

 

as far as the average shooter goes its bound to **** you off when one of the top guns turns up and wipes out the field, but as Cat said, " they have done the time".

 

not everyone has the natural ability to reach the top, thats why there are spectators in all sports watching the "best " do it better than they.

i used to look at it this way when i started to compete here, i took one gun at a time to beat, no matter how well someone shoots they will have a bad day at some point, you just have to be there, i'd set my sights on the best gun in each level then keep trying till you beat him, then move on to the next, practice and more practice.

 

 

Martin

[tosspot]

Every private clay shoot (unregistered) can have any terms and conditions it wants. If you don't want pro shooters enterting, then simply have that on the flyer or on the sign at the entrance to the shoot.

 

If I were organising one I would have a "pro" section to the shoot into which all attending pro shooters that day would be entered, sharing the combined entry fee as prizes for first, second and third.

 

This way it is kept fair. Any pros that turn up will have the competition they need to keep them sharp, no point shooting a local club layout easily, what practice is that? They will have the moral high ground from not mugging joe soap who's only been shooting for 4 months (blush) and the mere mortals will have a fair chance at the prizes on offer

 

Thats what I would do :(

 

 

 

define pro?

 

anyone who is deemed to be good?

 

then define good

 

full time professional shooters are pretty rare aren't they

[Catamong]

I would say that is the starting point, and then do what Cat says and build on that.

If you have no natural ability whatsoever, no amount of prctice/tuition/money can get you up with the top boys.

 

Most of us need it all to be right to have a good day, most of us know someone who can hit most things with any gun, cartridge, jacket (whatever else we call variables) even with a screaming hangover - that is natural ability, and its the sort of thing that could be capitalised on.

 

as far as the average shooter goes its bound to **** you off when one of the top guns turns up and wipes out the field, but as Cat said, " they have done the time".

 

not everyone has the natural ability to reach the top, thats why there are spectators in all sports watching the "best " do it better than they.

i used to look at it this way when i started to compete here, i took one gun at a time to beat, no matter how well someone shoots they will have a bad day at some point, you just have to be there, i'd set my sights on the best gun in each level then keep trying till you beat him, then move on to the next, practice and more practice.

 

 

Martin

 

A number of posters have referred to "natural ability".

 

My views on this one may be contraversial, but I honestly believe most people have broadly the same level of "natural ability" at whatever sport they undertake.

 

Obviously, tall people generally make better basketball players, but there are no physical characteristics that can readily identify somebody with potential "natural shooting ability", you've only got to look at Digweed to understand this point.

 

I used to run a Sunday morning fortnightly clay shoot for a number of years, and I introduced many completely new shooters to the sport. I found that most people started at pretty much the same level, but those that became really good shots seemed to learn quicker than the others and also put more time in through practice.

 

Competitive shooting is very much a mental game. How often do you see a good club level shooter, who regularly shoots 45 ex 50 on the fairly testing Sunday morning club shoot, fall completely apart at a major national competition, and shoot 65 ex 100? I've seen it happen many times, and that's why the likes of Digweed and Faulds will always come out tops, because they've learned to shoot well under pressure.

 

Cat.

[Lord Geordie]

If all you can do is get peed off when your beaten (even by a pro turning up) then WHY do you enter at all?

 

You should take part simply to enjoy yourself and get a day out from the missus and IF you win a prize it's a bonus.

 

We have a few lads at OUR club who are cracking shots and can manage 99 for 100 and on other occasions the straight 100 on skeet and DTL etc.

 

My Friend has a Natural ability and scores very well too but unfortunatley he is not consistent. He has days when he is focused he can get straight runs but other days he can't hit 90 out of 100.

 

If a Pro turned up at our club he would most likely leave with his tail between his legs and empty handed

 

Just have fun it's all about taking part and enjoying yourself not ALL about winning

 

LG

[dazza]

My normal club on a Sunday is run from waste ground at the end of a series of scrap yards and next to a permanent travellers encampment.

 

Not much chance of any pro's venturing in to steel our silverware (I mean plastic).

 

 

[Dunkield]

I would say that is the starting point, and then do what Cat says and build on that.

If you have no natural ability whatsoever, no amount of prctice/tuition/money can get you up with the top boys.

 

Most of us need it all to be right to have a good day, most of us know someone who can hit most things with any gun, cartridge, jacket (whatever else we call variables) even with a screaming hangover - that is natural ability, and its the sort of thing that could be capitalised on.

 

as far as the average shooter goes its bound to **** you off when one of the top guns turns up and wipes out the field, but as Cat said, " they have done the time".

 

not everyone has the natural ability to reach the top, thats why there are spectators in all sports watching the "best " do it better than they.

i used to look at it this way when i started to compete here, i took one gun at a time to beat, no matter how well someone shoots they will have a bad day at some point, you just have to be there, i'd set my sights on the best gun in each level then keep trying till you beat him, then move on to the next, practice and more practice.

 

 

Martin

 

A number of posters have referred to "natural ability".

 

My views on this one may be contraversial, but I honestly believe most people have broadly the same level of "natural ability" at whatever sport they undertake.

 

Obviously, tall people generally make better basketball players, but there are no physical characteristics that can readily identify somebody with potential "natural shooting ability", you've only got to look at Digweed to understand this point.

 

I used to run a Sunday morning fortnightly clay shoot for a number of years, and I introduced many completely new shooters to the sport. I found that most people started at pretty much the same level, but those that became really good shots seemed to learn quicker than the others and also put more time in through practice.

 

Competitive shooting is very much a mental game. How often do you see a good club level shooter, who regularly shoots 45 ex 50 on the fairly testing Sunday morning club shoot, fall completely apart at a major national competition, and shoot 65 ex 100? I've seen it happen many times, and that's why the likes of Digweed and Faulds will always come out tops, because they've learned to shoot well under pressure.

 

Cat.

 

I agree with what you are saying Cat, and a lot of is down to how you apply yourself, getting to the top would also require a huge mental focus that some people either don't have or aren't prepared to make.

 

Because they are normally quite competative anyway, golfers coming into shooting do quite well initially.

 

I don't think is a physical right size to shoot clays well, but generally speaking big people definitly seem to steady the gun better than small people, and I don't mean Digweed fat, I just mean big

 

As for pot hunters, there isn't lot you can do other than not enter or as LG says just enjoy it for what it is.

[Mungler]

I would say that is the starting point, and then do what Cat says and build on that.

If you have no natural ability whatsoever, no amount of prctice/tuition/money can get you up with the top boys.

 

Most of us need it all to be right to have a good day, most of us know someone who can hit most things with any gun, cartridge, jacket (whatever else we call variables) even with a screaming hangover - that is natural ability, and its the sort of thing that could be capitalised on.

 

as far as the average shooter goes its bound to **** you off when one of the top guns turns up and wipes out the field, but as Cat said, " they have done the time".

 

not everyone has the natural ability to reach the top, thats why there are spectators in all sports watching the "best " do it better than they.

i used to look at it this way when i started to compete here, i took one gun at a time to beat, no matter how well someone shoots they will have a bad day at some point, you just have to be there, i'd set my sights on the best gun in each level then keep trying till you beat him, then move on to the next, practice and more practice.

 

 

Martin

 

A number of posters have referred to "natural ability".

 

My views on this one may be contraversial, but I honestly believe most people have broadly the same level of "natural ability" at whatever sport they undertake.

 

Obviously, tall people generally make better basketball players, but there are no physical characteristics that can readily identify somebody with potential "natural shooting ability", you've only got to look at Digweed to understand this point.

 

I used to run a Sunday morning fortnightly clay shoot for a number of years, and I introduced many completely new shooters to the sport. I found that most people started at pretty much the same level, but those that became really good shots seemed to learn quicker than the others and also put more time in through practice.

 

Competitive shooting is very much a mental game. How often do you see a good club level shooter, who regularly shoots 45 ex 50 on the fairly testing Sunday morning club shoot, fall completely apart at a major national competition, and shoot 65 ex 100? I've seen it happen many times, and that's why the likes of Digweed and Faulds will always come out tops, because they've learned to shoot well under pressure.

 

Cat.

 

I agree with what you are saying Cat, and a lot of is down to how you apply yourself, getting to the top would also require a huge mental focus that some people either don't have or aren't prepared to make.

 

Because they are normally quite competative anyway, golfers coming into shooting do quite well initially.

 

I don't think is a physical right size to shoot clays well, but generally speaking big people definitly seem to steady the gun better than small people, and I don't mean Digweed fat, I just mean big

 

As for pot hunters, there isn't lot you can do other than not enter or as LG says just enjoy it for what it is.

 

 

 

There is such a thing as natural ability - a mate who has never shot before, who is left handed picked a right handed gun for the first time and banged out 38/50 on a tricky set up.

 

Mind you, he is a computer games addict and understands the whole concept of tracking and shooting a moving target (albeit on screen). So is that natural ability or a natural consequence of being a computer geek.

 

Erm, I have confused myself now and shall have a little lie down

[tosspot]

 

 

Competitive shooting is very much a mental game. How often do you see a good club level shooter, who regularly shoots 45 ex 50 on the fairly testing Sunday morning club shoot, fall completely apart at a major national competition, and shoot 65 ex 100? I've seen it happen many times, and that's why the likes of Digweed and Faulds will always come out tops, because they've learned to shoot well under pressure.

 

Cat.

 

 

you've seen me shoot then Cat!!!

 

 

on the whole i couldn't give a stuff about whose shooting at what level

but then again in reality i ain't gonna be chasing the folding stuff

 

but the one that does bug me is the pool shoot that pays out every twenty scores for example

and the top boys hawking around waiting for 19 shooters to go then jumping in if the anti is low enough for them to win easily

[Catamong]

Surely that's just good tactics on their part..??

 

Believe me, there are bandits at every level, not just at the top. I shot a tricky 100 birder in Essex last Sunday, followed a group of guys onto several stands, one guy was shooting well, dropped only one bird over the 3 stands of 10, nice style, very smooth, obviously been shooting some time.

 

I couldn't believe it when I looked at his card - "B" class....!!!

 

I commented that he must have left his sombrero at home, fortunately he didn't take offence.

 

Cat.

[the last engineer]

natural ability aplies to all aspects of life, eg some people make good drivers some nop, co-ordination and motor skills, the ability to mentaly apply yourself to a task, some fin it easy others hard, as the old saying goes " horses for cources" comes to mind.

 

Martin

 

p.s. cat the same happens here every year at the fedral 400, master and "aa" shooters sudenly forget how to shoot until the handicao comes out the second day **** me off or what , even **** turpin wore a mask ..........................

[lurcherboy]

natural ability aplies to all aspects of life, eg some people make good drivers some nop, co-ordination and motor skills, the ability to mentaly apply yourself to a task, some fin it easy others hard, as the old saying goes " horses for cources" comes to mind.

 

Martin

 

p.s. cat the same happens here every year at the fedral 400, master and "aa" shooters sudenly forget how to shoot until the handicao comes out the second day **** me off or what , even **** turpin wore a mask ..........................

 

 

Hang them then Martin

 

 

LB

[the last engineer]

I wish LB , it just gets my goat sometimes, you/we have many shoots and it just takes a few jackasses to wreck it, i kid you not when i say some top shooters here will tank their score the first day so as to build the handicap score for the second round, the system was introduced so as lower level shooters stood a chance against the big guys, not happening with these cheap *********, its every year these bafoons come shooting with a "bad shoulder" or some other exotic ****.

 

at the federal 400 this year 3 master shooters (among others in their classes) failed to shoot an A level score, a drop of 9 % minimum sad realy the following day coming out with a dramatic recovery and shooting high 70's low 80's, the levels we shoot are below, personaly i think the master class should be higher, me im just coming out of junior class now

 

ASCA Classification System

 

Classes

Master 75.50 - 100.00

AA 69.60 - 75.49

A 66.00 - 69.59

B 61.50 - 65.99

C 56.00 - 61.49

D 51.60 - 55.99

E 0.00 - 51.59

 

Concurrent Classes

Ladies

Vet 60yrs - 66yrs

Super-Vet 67yrs & Over

Junior 15yrs - 18yrs

Sub-Junior 12yrs - 14yrs

 

the 400 is shot over two days as i said, with a twist, there is a Calcutta where any shooter adds 10bucks to his entrance fee, this allows him to be auctioned off as a shooter in his class among others, his/her score the first day will rate a handicap which added to the score on the second day will set his H.O.A score, with most shooters in the money value can add up in any class, having won the shoot as HOA this year it netted me $1500 this was split with the guy who bought me, nice bonus for the weekend anyway, paid for the shells, and by the way LB my buddy and i and the guy in the vid, took the team shoot title in Carstairs last weekend 184 ex 200 3 man team shoot, great day out lot of fun co-ordinating 3 shooters on a cource.

 

 

Martin

[Catamong]

Martin,

 

No surprise that Sandbagging occurs even in Canada..!!

 

The CPSA here have tried to minimise the numbers that are at it by revising the averages every 6 months, it's a step in the right direction I suppose.

 

Interesting to see your cut off scores for Masterclass at 75.50, the equivalent class in the UK is AAA with a cut off here of 85.80, either we're much better shots than most Canadians or our shoots are a lot easier...??

 

I can't comment, as I've never shot in Canada.

 

I've flown over it, on the way to San Antonio via Chicago, and even from 30,000 feet, I was impressed by the place..!!

 

Cat.

[the last engineer]

i hear ya Cat, here they revise your handicap by taking the last 300 targets shot, why 300 no idea i guess thats what they figure will cure the problem, dont think so myself, yourright with the figures there well, our master is your triple A, it should be higher, my reason is there are too many shooters in the classes B-A-AA this can realy destroy a shooter who slots in the bottom of the next class, he now finds himself with a whole new ballgame to play, such is life i guess.

 

anyway if your ever flying over, stop by, id love to take you out here, see how the other half shoot, as far as easier here to there, that i dont know, ive only shot a few clubs back home, ,,,, next time eh

 

Martin

[lurcherboy]

Martin, it seems that all the grounds pretty well know who can and who cant shoot, so why don't they just load them accordingly?

 

If they are injured then hard cheese let the cheats suffer.

 

Or am I being biased, nope I'm not

 

 

 

LB

[pin]

but the one that does bug me is the pool shoot that pays out every twenty scores for example

and the top boys hawking around waiting for 19 shooters to go then jumping in if the anti is low enough for them to win easily

 

Thats exactly the same as a pro driving round 4 or 5 shoots on a Sunday and taking high gun at them all. I will never agree with it, perhaps if I was good enough to do it I would think differently? I don't think so, but I will probably never know