be careful whats in your car

[Rushjob]

My 2p worth..... and I realise I'm posting at the 11th hour but I've not been back of my hols for long!

 

If the OP had a friction lock baton in the car to use as a priest, he's stuffed on the Off Weapon charge - those items are offensive weapons per se and I can't anyone coming up with a reasonable excuse to have one. If it's a staghorn priest, then I have every expectation that a good argument could be put forward which would be to his advantage.

 

More impotantly, I would not be happy to be arrested in the circs described as IMHO the necessity test would not be met.

 

See here re necessity to arrest

 

 

 

 

 

Under s24(5) of PACE the necessity criteria are:

 

 

Enforcement Instructions and Guidance

• 
  (a) to enable the name of the person in question to be ascertained (in the case where the constable does not know, and cannot readily ascertain, the person’s name, or has reasonable grounds for doubting whether a name given by the person as his name is his real name);
  
• 
  (B) correspondingly as regards the person’s address;
  
• 
  © to prevent the person in question;
  

 

• causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
  
• suffering physical injury;
  
• causing loss of, or damage to, property;
  
• committing an offence against public decency (subject to subsection (6)); or
  
• causing an unlawful obstruction of the highway;
  

 

• 
  (d) to protect a child or other vulnerable person from the person in question;
  
• 
  (e) to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the
  person in question;
  
• 
  (f) to prevent any prosecution for the offence from being hindered by the disappearance of
  the person in question.
  

I cannot for the life of me see how your arrest could be justified in what you have disclosed here.....

 

Were they to argue prompt and effective investigation, that went by the way several days ago, you should have been lifted under that criteria when the item was discovered.

 

I would suggest that you arrange an appointment to meet with the officer at the station with your legal rep in tow and have him make VERY STRONG REPRESENTATIONS should they wish to formally arrest you.

 

Should he insist on this, once placed before the Custody Sgt, get your legal rep to again make the same representations.

 

Many folks don't know just what effect simply being arrested can have on you later on in life in relation to employment, travel etc.

 

Hope it all goes well for you.

[m3vert]

The one thing I would have liked to have seen clarified is what EXACTLY the kosh/priest/baton is? Surely the weapon in question is really the crux of the whole thing? If its a 3 or 4 inch metal priest its a no brainer and you will walk without charge, if however its a Police style ASP your screwed and rightly so. Maybe once you get back from seeing the Police you can advise us exactly what this weapon is? We can then sympathise or crucify as required

[Muddy Funker]

If the OP had a friction lock baton in the car to use as a priest, he's stuffed on the Off Weapon charge - those items are offensive weapons per se and I can't anyone coming up with a reasonable excuse to have one.

 

It wouldn't matter if there was reasonable excuse, unless maybe he's maybe a copper taking equipment home as he's not at his base station the following day?

 

I don't know them all off the top of my head but some things there is no lawful authority or reasonable excuse for.

 

Ninja weapons, batons, butterfly knives ect.

 

you carry any of that, you get done.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

 

Many folks don't know just what effect simply being arrested can have on you later on in life in relation to employment, travel etc.

 

It has no effect, an arrest does not mean guilty. It's just a part of the process, to enable the gathering of evidence by way of interview, search, seizure ect.

 

It's only if you accept a caution or get convicted in court that information is disclosable to any employers/future employers.

 

Arrest does however get you created on the system of the force that made the arrest but that information is for police eyes only.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Muddy Funker

[wymberley]

It’s not like the OP’s been dragged down the station in cuffs on the night, they have arranged a convenient time to come and collect him.

 

[/guote]

To be honest, I have no idea if this is correct but if they had dragged him off as you describe, wouldn't they have had to charge or release him within 36/48 hours or whatever it is? (Obviously, I watched too many episodes of Z Cars) This way they get to **** him about with impunity for 9 days!

 

PS I've now an idea of how J felt at the time. Foxing last night and driving from the farm down the farm drive I came across a parked car outside the horse field gate. Got out with lamp and looked about. Nowt. Car locked but window open with phone in oddment tray. Thought perhaps it was visitors to bungalow (which is located by the farmhouse and rented out) who'd parked there to avoid disturbance if they left late. Putting lamp away (I'm somewhat deaf) and there's suddenly a bloke stood right behind me quickly followed by another. I can tell you, it's a half a crown sixpence situation.

 

With all the kit in the truck, I pretended to swallow their cock and bull story so they'd push off which they did and then I tried to phone the police. Has anyone in the Devon and Cornwall police area ever had an answer before losing their patience and hanging up when dialling that 0845 non emergency numder? It's a farce.

 

PPS (Edit facility now appears to have a lapse time) Spoke with shooting oppo - best have a word with the Devon and Cornwall Police Farce (DCC) - went to the local nick at 0950 to find it didn't open until 1000 - couldn't speak to a policeman (don't think there were any there as they have an annex which is the cafe beside the car wash down the road from me - knew I should have gone there but had to go into town anyway) but the community person will pass all the relevant information on - how? - all she wrote down was the vehicle registration, didn't ask my name, didn't make a note of the farm name, didn't ask for any descriptions - rural crime?straight over the top of her head! - DCC have said how safe it is to live down here, hinting that they can take the credit for this - not for much longer - the BBC have announced on the Teletext that 4 out of 10 crimes in the DCC patch go uninvestigated - that's all we need, every scroat, ***** and con will now be on the 2130 from Paddington or hotfooting it down the M5/M4.

[Rushjob]

It wouldn't matter if there was reasonable excuse, unless maybe he's maybe a copper taking equipment home as he's not at his base station the following day?

 

I don't know them all off the top of my head but some things there is no lawful authority or reasonable excuse for.

 

Ninja weapons, batons, butterfly knives ect.

 

you carry any of that, you get done.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

 

 

 

It has no effect, an arrest does not mean guilty. It's just a part of the process, to enable the gathering of evidence by way of interview, search, seizure ect.

 

It's only if you accept a caution or get convicted in court that information is disclosable to any employers/future employers.

 

Arrest does however get you created on the system of the force that made the arrest but that information is for police eyes only.

 

 

Muddy - with off weapons there can be reasonable excuse / lawful authority for possession when not at your home, it's just that they are very narrow - one you allude to, Police officer in possession, another is found and being taken by the OP in to the police for them to dispose of.

 

Re arrest, starter for 10 on effects, have you applied for an automatic visa to visit the USA recently?

 

If you have ever been arrested, you have to apply for a visa through the US Embassy and US immigration have a distinct lack of either a sense of humour or proportion.

 

An arrest is the taking of a person's liberty and is something not to be done lightly.

 

They have no lawful reason to arrest him in the circs given by the OP.

 

Once arrested you are on PNC nationally for life for all forces and other agencies with access to the PNC to view.

 

If you are in a notifiable occupation, arrest can mean your employers and professional body are informed of you being detained.

 

Arrest can only be used if the necessity test is passed and again, on the circs quoted the police already have the item in question, so no search, he's agreed to attend for interview, so no need to detain for that, they know where he is cause they've been in contact with him and it's rather unlikely he's going to be able to interfere with the investigation as he was pretty much found committing the offence by the cops!

 

I'm unaware of your experience with the system, myself, having just retired from the Force, I have a rather good insight as I spent the best part of the last 3 years in my second stint as a Custody Officer so am pretty much bang up to date on it.

 

I would not be happy myself.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Rushjob

[parapilot]

That can't be right, if I'm in Asda and get arrested, taken to the nick, then released cos wrong identity or some crook looks like me, it can't affect me, if not charged or cautioned surly you can request your name / prints / dna taken of the record. If it affects you then the system stinks. I'd be right onto legal advice

[storme37]

its Thursday i thought we would know the outcome of this by now hope he hasn't been held in custody or something horrible like that.

Edited August 9, 2012 by storme37

[bi9johnny]

well then chaps it's 12.05 and u just got back from the custody suite and what a experience that was...3 police came to arrest me earlier and i was taken into custody, during the booking in process the custody sergeant called a inspector over and the arresting officer and had a long discussion before completing the booking in then put me in one of those glass cells while i waited to be interviewed. eventualy i was interviewed and i gave my reasons for having a steel baton in my car the night i was car jacked, the officer then went back to the inspector and talked to him while i was put in a cell... i then got a visit from the inspector in the cell to basicaly tell me that although he understood why i had it(humane dispatch) that i had been a soft twit ish and that he also does the same hobby as me and that he will be talking to the cps and asking them for a nfa (no further action) but cannot guarantee it and put me on bail to go back to him next thursday....... all the police personnel i encountered were extremely respectful to me and a few did comment that i shouldn't be there and even one of the c.i.d. officers apologised to me which was strange...have to wait and see now for a week

regards

john

by the way the inspector told me he always carries a opinel and that is ok as there is good cause to have it

[m3vert]

Please advise us of the SIZE of this steel baton???

[bi9johnny]

Please advise us of the SIZE of this steel baton???

 

about 10" (no you don't put batteries in it) wish i had a picture of it now , no it didnt lock

charge inspector reckoned it was an ideal tool to dispatch with never the less illegal to have in the door pocket of your car

[wymberley]

Very sorry to hear the latest; it's certainly dragging on and can't be at all pleasant to say the least.

 

I don't know if anyone else is also wondering but must admit that I am. In the light of the favourable comments expressed by some officers regarding your situation, do the powers that be require you to give evidence in the court case for the two clowns?

[storme37]

if the inspector wants nfa your in the clear

[bi9johnny]

Very sorry to hear the latest; it's certainly dragging on and can't be at all pleasant to say the least.

 

I don't know if anyone else is also wondering but must admit that I am. In the light of the favourable comments expressed by some officers regarding your situation, do the powers that be require you to give evidence in the court case for the two clowns?

yes i will be giving evidence mate.....the local bobby's (the one that arrested me) also come to my works for cctv help whenever anything happens on the industrial estate where i work as we are well fitted out all around our building at the entrance to the estate and there is only me who knows how to use the cctv computer set up

[colliwobbles]

I don't know what Police area you live in, however, after discussing this with the custody staff after dealing with a feral drunk who deserved to be nicked I talked about this with the two custody sgts and put your scenario to them. Both firstly asked what the necessity for the arrest was (as a few of us have posted on here) and both said they wouldn't accept custody and to VA as the socap necessity test hadn't been met.

CPS work 24 hours so I'm surprised that you were bailed out, whilst it would mean a little longer in custody, we phone cps, fax/email across the evidence they read it and make the decision there and then, bearing in mind the custody inspector can make an nfa decision him/her self.

 

I've gotta say that speaking from the other side I'd be embarrassed, one of the problems we have is that common sense has been taken away and there are too many bobbies into the numbers game.

 

The next problem you're likely to have is your firearms and certs seized. Licencing departments check custody records daily and any fac/sgc holders flagged get another visit for your weapons and paperwork firstly to ensure that you don't self

Harm or do something stupid and secondly whilst they assess the outcome of the case and your suitability to continue to hold a fac/sgc.

My advice, photograph your guns showing dints/marks etc ( you'd be surprised at what happens to them) and get an itemised receipt.

 

I'm sorry you're being dragged through the system and hope it goes ok Thursday.

 

Colin

 

[bedwards1966]

The next problem you're likely to have is your firearms and certs seized. Licencing departments check custody records daily and any fac/sgc holders flagged get another visit for your weapons and paperwork firstly to ensure that you don't self

Harm or do something stupid and secondly whilst they assess the outcome of the case and your suitability to continue to hold a fac/sgc.

My advice, photograph your guns showing dints/marks etc ( you'd be surprised at what happens to them) and get an itemised receipt.

 

 

Colin

 

Sadly, he might be right and you could have a visit to revoke your certificates and seize your guns.

Just in case, I would spend a few minutes making detailed photographs of your guns showing them to be dent and scratch free, with no rust on. Chances are, if they do come for them, they'll be thrown into a damp storage facility and they come back dented and with major rust.

The photo's you take will help you to claim compensation afterwards.If they do come for them, it might be an idea to remove the scopes if you have any expensive ones, and personally I'd trickle oil into the bores before handing them over, then they might still function when you get them back.

 

Do get a detailed receipt for everything they take, and remember that you do not need to give them shotgun cartridges, as you do not need a certificate to hold them.

 

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

[CharlieT]

Should the above happen, a wise man may decide to preempt the matter and arrange storage at his local RFD soonest.

[SneakyD]

Should the above happen, a wise man may decide to preempt the matter and arrange storage at his local RFD soonest.

Very good idea

[TopDown]

Good advice above. Surprised about the bail decision though.

[colliwobbles]

Chances are, if they do come for them, they'll be thrown into a damp storage facility and they come back dented and with major rust.

 

** got a bit carried away** see below for what I was going to add in respond to the above quote!!

Edited August 10, 2012 by colliwobbles

[colliwobbles]

Sorry blipped all firearms seized by the police end up at the force armoury after being transported by in our case g4s (I know)!!!

 

After seizure they end up in a firearms cabinet at the station until they're transported, having been in the armoury at two headquarters they're Definately not damp and all weapons bein held are racked, for destruction are In a pile admittedly but the weapons are looked after!

[njc110381]

After reading this I'm glad I took my machete and bread knife (best tool ever for trimming fine details in newly laid turf) from my door pocket and put them behind the back seat of my pickup. I'm sure if I was stopped they'd find something - locking pruning saw, loppers, smaller knife, hammers etc. In fact I'm pretty sure I'd be screwed! From a day to day view though I can't hide it all because it would waste too much time getting it out for use on site.

 

The law can be a right pain at times. You'd think that if you were fit to be trusted with a FAC you'd also be fit to carry a bit of bar in your door pocket?! It's a bloody joke really, especially considering the OP's situation.

[bedwards1966]

After reading this I'm glad I took my machete and bread knife (best tool ever for trimming fine details in newly laid turf) from my door pocket and put them behind the back seat of my pickup. I'm sure if I was stopped they'd find something - locking pruning saw, loppers, smaller knife, hammers etc. In fact I'm pretty sure I'd be screwed! From a day to day view though I can't hide it all because it would waste too much time getting it out for use on site.

 

The law can be a right pain at times. You'd think that if you were fit to be trusted with a FAC you'd also be fit to carry a bit of bar in your door pocket?! It's a bloody joke really, especially considering the OP's situation.

 

What stupid rules we live with. I too find myself carrying all manor of things in my car, staying within the law can be a headache at times.

[39TDS]

It is a crazy situation when there are all manner of potential weapons in my car, most of which would see me put in jail.

All except the half dozen or so shotguns and various rifles which are all perfectly legal and no problem whatsoever.

How does that make sense?

[Scully]

After reading this I'm glad I took my machete and bread knife (best tool ever for trimming fine details in newly laid turf) from my door pocket and put them behind the back seat of my pickup. I'm sure if I was stopped they'd find something - locking pruning saw, loppers, smaller knife, hammers etc. In fact I'm pretty sure I'd be screwed! From a day to day view though I can't hide it all because it would waste too much time getting it out for use on site.

 

The law can be a right pain at times. You'd think that if you were fit to be trusted with a FAC you'd also be fit to carry a bit of bar in your door pocket?! It's a bloody joke really, especially considering the OP's situation.

Good post.I'm in a similar position.My vehicle,used for work as well as shooting,has in it,a lump hammer,a claw hammer,two stanley knives plus a box of 100 blades,a bread knife(for trimming dry expanding foam)a folding saw and two pieces of foot long rosewood complete with swivels and chain which

I'm going to turn into Nunchukas for my son!Which I must remember to remove!This doesn't include the wheel brace and a long iron bar which is used to operate the jack.

A mate keeps in the back of his Landie a complete gralloching set,'cos you can bet on the day we need it it'll be left at home,plus a leatherman multi-tool,and one of those cheese-wire saw thingies!

Edited August 11, 2012 by Scully

[wymberley]

It's all poppycock. In 1957 I added 2" to the school high jump record. Father kept his side of the bargain and from the Exchange and Mart bought me an ex WD machete complete with a canvas sheath which I carried on my belt and the purpose of which was cutting back the undergrowth when rabbiting. No one ever said a word. (I actually still have it some 55 years later.) I was 13 at the time.

 

It has to be said that the sporting event stood me in good stead as we shooters seem to do nowt else but jump to the whims of the legislators.