pigeon pete Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Yes i fess up i do most of my testing as range work, paper is sooo much better for telling you whats happening than just having a crack live quarry. I am a member of precisely Nil target clubs and shoot at no official ranges and havent for a few years. It aint exactly difficult for me to test something as i have over 1000yds of safe ground from the front or back of my house and i fully understand how hard it is for some to only have 100yds club ranges to shoot on as i have been in that situation. Even when i shot at Diggle regulary you couldn't always get access to the range you wanted due to weekend comps and needed to have the appropriate number with RCO to shoot midweek etc DSC lowland 100yds zero test has very little to do with this thread as it has nothing to do with cost of loading your own ammo or load development yes you are right there kent ,but if this reply is being in reply to my comment ,the reason i commented about the 100m test and not cleaning my barrel is to show you that you can see on the test target how the group is tightening up as the rifling is fouling and i thought it might help this member a lot of time and money ,as when i first started to reload i thought i was doing something wrong ,like knocking the scope or getting the loads wrong ,months of time and lost cash ,then the chap that owns the ex military range who has shot a **** loads of years and many comps and has benchrest shooters in his club then said " the reason you have to put 20/30/40 odd rounds down range and adjust your scope is you take it home and clean it " i then said ive always have cleaned my guns from when i did my SKILL AT ARMS & MARKSMANSHIP ,he said try it ,your ok on modern nitro powders ,and believe me m8 dient want to not clean it but on my mothers ash's it worked 99% of are club members now use this ,like i say just trying to help a fellow shooter ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) As i've gone down the .204 cf route, (costly ammo) and will be joining a club(s) i want to start getting into re-loading. As for the equipment, I'll probably go for the Lee 50th anniversary challenger kit. I presume the only extras i will need are a set of dies and a "bullet seater". Would that be right? Also, do i really need a "tumbler" as a demonstration on the Lee kit did not show one? He was using old cases but may have left that info out. However, personally i would doubt it as he was doing a kind of "Idiots guide". Just to add that he was reloading pistol rounds.... Also, how does it work with regard to the amount of ammo i'm allowed on my ticket. I presume i would be limited to whats on my ticket for bullet heads and primers, but what about the powder? It doesn't really explain why i'd need the case trimming tool. If i was using fired cases would they need trimming, and why?? Here's the set-up i intend to get if anyones interested, and could give me their constructive opinion http://www.nuts.co.u...lay/RQNz2ie5H5U Just to add that i will have 40 once used Remington cases and 60 once used Hornady cases. Any opinions on that brand of brass?? Edited October 8, 2012 by jam1e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 PP, where did you manage to do your Skill at Arms and Marksmanship about? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 PP, where did you manage to do your Skill at Arms and Marksmanship about? Cheers. pm sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 As i've gone down the .204 cf route, (costly ammo) and will be joining a club(s) i want to start getting into re-loading. As for the equipment, I'll probably go for the Lee 50th anniversary challenger kit. I presume the only extras i will need are a set of dies and a "bullet seater". Would that be right? Also, do i really need a "tumbler" as a demonstration on the Lee kit did not show one? He was using old cases but may have left that info out. However, personally i would doubt it as he was doing a kind of "Idiots guide". Just to add that he was reloading pistol rounds.... Also, how does it work with regard to the amount of ammo i'm allowed on my ticket. I presume i would be limited to whats on my ticket for bullet heads and primers, but what about the powder? It doesn't really explain why i'd need the case trimming tool. If i was using fired cases would they need trimming, and why?? Here's the set-up i intend to get if anyones interested, and could give me their constructive opinion http://www.nuts.co.u...lay/RQNz2ie5H5U Just to add that i will have 40 once used Remington cases and 60 once used Hornady cases. Any opinions on that brand of brass?? no you dont need a tumbler ,these were used to polish cases in autos,got one but only use it now and then ,i clean my cases on my zip trimmer,try and stick with one batch of cases,the reason you trim your cases is the brass will stretch,i tend to trim mine after every time i fire them ,not all people do ,what we do in are club is pinch a bit of powder of one of are mates and work some loads and if its any good then we get a few kgs of that powder ,this can save you a few £££ if your rifle dont like that make of powder ,have a look on youtube at reloading videos ,DONT go by there powder measurements ,get a reloading book or look at the data from the powder web site ,always start from the lowest measurement and work up a load and NEVER go passed the maximum load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) no you dont need a tumbler ,these were used to polish cases in autos,got one but only use it now and then ,i clean my cases on my zip trimmer,try and stick with one batch of cases,the reason you trim your cases is the brass will stretch,i tend to trim mine after every time i fire them ,not all people do ,what we do in are club is pinch a bit of powder of one of are mates and work some loads and if its any good then we get a few kgs of that powder ,this can save you a few £££ if your rifle dont like that make of powder ,have a look on youtube at reloading videos ,DONT go by there powder measurements ,get a reloading book or look at the data from the powder web site ,always start from the lowest measurement and work up a load and NEVER go passed the maximum load Cheers Pete! Just to add, that i intend to go with the Lee Challenger 50th Anniversary kit. The cheapest i've found is £115, (that seem ok?)However, the rfd said it wasn't the "Challenger" but was the "50th Anniversary kit". She said it came with all the bits bar the dies. But couldn't say what the "Challenger" kit was, which has left me confused Edited October 9, 2012 by jam1e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12borejimbo Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 http://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=OPTICSWAREHOUSE_BUDGET_RELOADING_KIT Jamie, this is all you need, the scales are a bit pants, so get a new set if you can afford them, I use Lyman 500 scales and they are very good. You will also need a Hornady Lock n Load guage, unless you stick to factory length rounds for the moment. PM me if you need some help and I will give you my phone numebr and guide you through what to do. James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12borejimbo Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not wanting to promote other sites, as I think Pigeonwatch is great (my favourite forum out of all of them) however this is a good idea, maybe we should do a Pigeonwatch version, I wouldnt mind doing one if it was pinned? Mod's please get in touch if this is what you would agree with, I will happily do my own version. http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/15361-Overview-of-the-Reloading-Process-From-Spent-Case-to-Loaded-Round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 thats quite good and by one of the less boring people on the SD, I tend to de prime and trim before cleaning then use a sonic cleaner and it cleans the primer pocket pretty well you rarely need to do anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12borejimbo Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 thats quite good and by one of the less boring people on the SD, I tend to de prime and trim before cleaning then use a sonic cleaner and it cleans the primer pocket pretty well you rarely need to do anything else Spot on Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 pigeon pete, Your second photo of rounds fired on 5 target squres has absolutely no relevance to the cleanliness of your barrel because you are shooting two different loads, all you are doing is showing us that your competition load is more accurate then your hunting load. Now if as you claim you are shooting along side BR shooters and that group in the your first pic won you a competition, then the BR shooters you are shooting along side of are only trying to be BR shooters. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Also, do i really need a "tumbler" as a demonstration on the Lee kit did not show one? No you dont.I reload a few calibres (357,7.92 & 303) and simply use my washing machine.Stick 20-30 deprimed cases into a hiking sock and place in washing machine with clothes on a normal wash. These are a few 7.92 rounds i cleaned yesterday and loaded today-all shiny shiny. Edited October 9, 2012 by Imperfection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thanks for the replies folks. Firstly i'm well aware that most people on here know more about cf rifles than i do. And I genuinely do value the various opinions as it broadens ideas and solutions to the varying aspects of the hobby/career. However, the constant "arguing/debating" is very frustrating, when it drifts off subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 no you dont need a tumbler ,these were used to polish cases in autos,got one but only use it now and then ,i clean my cases on my zip trimmer,try and stick with one batch of cases,the reason you trim your cases is the brass will stretch,i tend to trim mine after every time i fire them ,not all people do ,what we do in are club is pinch a bit of powder of one of are mates and work some loads and if its any good then we get a few kgs of that powder ,this can save you a few £££ if your rifle dont like that make of powder ,have a look on youtube at reloading videos ,DONT go by there powder measurements ,get a reloading book or look at the data from the powder web site ,always start from the lowest measurement and work up a load and NEVER go passed the maximum load Cheers Pete. Noted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 No you dont.I reload a few calibres (357,7.92 & 303) and simply use my washing machine.Stick 20-30 deprimed cases into a hiking sock and place in washing machine with clothes on a normal wash. These are a few 7.92 rounds i cleaned yesterday and loaded today-all shiny shiny. Now thats amazing, and funny too! So thank-you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Well i've gone ahead and bought the Lee 50th kit today. As predicted they need to order my .204 die set. Although they did have my "case seat". The kit also contained a "Case Trimmer" or "Cutter and lock Stud" But from my understanding the parts should be fitted to a small metal frame, with a handle to wind round. A little like the ones from my old school days when you could reduce a new pencil to a stub in seconds! I'm going to put my mixed cases to one side for now and will buy a bag of new brass to keep things simple. Theres an "idiots guide" inside the box, along with a Hodgdon Data Manual. But i'll be getting the Lee Precision Modern Reloading 2nd Edition before i start my first lot of reloading. And will also hopefully watch a few done for real (as apposed to virtual) before i make any for my rifle. Thanks for all the advice folks. And feel free to add something else if you think it will help me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 pigeon pete, Your second photo of rounds fired on 5 target squres has absolutely no relevance to the cleanliness of your barrel because you are shooting two different loads, all you are doing is showing us that your competition load is more accurate then your hunting load. Now if as you claim you are shooting along side BR shooters and that group in the your first pic won you a competition, then the BR shooters you are shooting along side of are only trying to be BR shooters. Ian. the target i showed was not in a bench rest comp ,it was for a tightest group comp ,if you read it properly ,i am saying how by not cleaning my bore shows how it keeps my groups sub 1" groups ,and i then tested my hunting rounds on the same card to see where my hunting rounds are going ,then i know i can ether take the rifle hunting or on the range and all i have to do is take the right loaded ammo out and not have to move or adjust my scope ,i am using the same brass ,powder charge and primer ,just a different head ,saves lots of work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 jam1e good on yer mate, you have taken the first steps into the darkside. Handloading is either a way to a means or a seperate entity in its own right For me its the latter, i love handloading as much as i enjoy shooting, in fact most of the shooting is proving my handloads, the better they are the better my shooting. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 pigeon pete, Your second photo of rounds fired on 5 target squres has absolutely no relevance to the cleanliness of your barrel because you are shooting two different loads, all you are doing is showing us that your competition load is more accurate then your hunting load. Now if as you claim you are shooting along side BR shooters and that group in the your first pic won you a competition, then the BR shooters you are shooting along side of are only trying to be BR shooters. Ian. i think you also miss read my quote on shooting along side BR shooters ,i have not shot in a bench rest comp ,like F class ,i have shot a along side them on are range and we have a few in are club and the club we shoot against ,and have lots of info from them and tips ,they also shot are comps and they have a BR rifle builder in there club ,he also agrees in only cleaning every few hundred rounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Pigeon pete, i never mentioned anything about benchrest competition, but isnt BR based on tightest groups fired? Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Pigeon pete, i never mentioned anything about benchrest competition, but isnt BR based on tightest groups fired? Ian. that and reading wind and loads ,the comp we shot is because a good friend passed away a few years ago ,so we hold a comp every year in his memory ,so we picked the tightest group wins the comp , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) that and reading wind and loads ,the comp we shot is because a good friend passed away a few years ago ,so we hold a comp every year in his memory ,so we picked the tightest group wins the comp , A dedicated competition in honour of one who is no longer with us can only be a good thing, was the gentlemen in question a fellow shooter? Back to the point pete, i am from the other school of thought and i clean my barrels after every 20rnds. I can honestly say that the cleanliness or dirtiness of my barrels has no impact at all on the tightness of my groups or first shot impact. Ian. Edited October 9, 2012 by Vermincinerator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 A dedicated competition in honour of one who is no longer with us can only be a good thing, was the gentlemen in question a fellow shooter? Back to the point pete, i am from the other school of thought and i clean my barrels after every 20rnds. I can honestly say that the cleanliness or dirtiness of my barrels has no impact at all on the tightness of my groups or first shot impact. Ian. yes he was and one of the lads and everyone liked him ,yes i know a lot of lads that clean there bores i have for 30 years ,but the last few i haven't and a lot of are lads don't now , i know it seems strange ,even are RFD that reloads for fox hunters and stalkers and has been reloading for 40 years he also tells people to not clean as much ,if it work for you why change it but it did for me ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 pm sent Got your PM, why so secretive? We are all proud to talk about our military service here. By the way your quals in the military mean diddly squat in civvy life. I have gained more mil quals and completed all the courses that you can think of but I would never claim to still hold them, I left the army in 2004. That is why I was wondering where you had done them. By the way if you thought that the RCO part of your mil quals was the hardest to achieve then I would hate to have seen how you would have done on your 5A course. The RCO qual came as part of your SAA level 3 course, which is a basic part of SAA. Oh and what is your gained marksman ship all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Got your PM, why so secretive? We are all proud to talk about our military service here. By the way your quals in the military mean diddly squat in civvy life. I have gained more mil quals and completed all the courses that you can think of but I would never claim to still hold them, I left the army in 2004. That is why I was wondering where you had done them. By the way if you thought that the RCO part of your mil quals was the hardest to achieve then I would hate to have seen how you would have done on your 5A course. The RCO qual came as part of your SAA level 3 course, which is a basic part of SAA. Oh and what is your gained marksman ship all about? duuuuuu i will tell you were i did it and every one will know and were ,think not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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