rimfire vs fac air rifle

[theoben fenman]

I have had .22 bullets ricochet off rabbits heads on rare occasions, unseen twigs and stems, stones hidden just under the grounds surface totally invisible to the observer. If your saying you have never had one then you will when you have shot some more. Do you never lamp? are there no stones or pebbles at all period on your ground ?

before you take the shot you weigh up the backstop but you also should way up were the shot might end up if things go wrong. This morning i have been waiting out with a centrefire for a fox. I wont go into bullet and calibre choice coz it will probebly start anther debate LOL but suffice to say ricochet potential is far less than a .22 sub. Towards the end of the session i planned on shooting any of the crows that landed within range. Three did and all had visible ground rising behind them, fresh mowed - yet all posed to great a risk in my assesment from the potential angle changes from a freaky ricochet either to stock or the farmhouse. Can we always ***** our backstops with a trowel? can we detect every little twig etc? No we cant thats why shot assesment needs to account for the unexpected ricochet

 

Ok thanks for an answer. But you are doing the right thing you are dealing with an 'unexpected ricochet by expecting it. Thats perfect and yes I've had ricochets whilst target shooting for reasons that I still cant figgure out but never in the hunting field.

 

Your not dealing with it by chosing a lower energy gun or calibre but looking at the safety aspects of the worst happening and that is exactly my point wether you got that or not!

 

I think we are finally getting somewhere...

[kent]

Ok thanks for an answer. But you are doing the right thing you are dealing with an 'unexpected ricochet by expecting it. Thats perfect and yes I've had ricochets whilst target shooting for reasons that I still cant figgure out but never in the hunting field.

 

Your not dealing with it by chosing a lower energy gun or calibre but looking at the safety aspects of the worst happening and that is exactly my point wether you got that or not!

 

I think we are finally getting somewhere...

 

lower energy is a factor, as is weight and constuction of bullet etc. It wont make a unsafe shot safe but its a factor to manage. Taken to the extreame its a 416 with a solid against a HMR. Indeed it was one reason i did away with my heavier calibre hunting rifles and one why i added the Hornet. The theory is if you can get away with less then do so

[Davyo]

I think its a dangerous assumption to think you will never have as richocet(subs),sorry but thats my opinion.You could get over confident that the backstop will hault the bullet, but as stated earlier what if it hit a pebble or a stone in the backstop.The first time i heard mine go off(and there was a suitable backstop) it seriously made me rethink my next shots.I tend to pull out of more shots after that because i'm constantly thinking what if?I also use FAC air and .22lr and both have their benifits & i dont think they are any better that each other.Obviousley if your tying to take a 80mtr shot with an FAC air and you also have a rimmy, then you've selected the wrong tool for the job.If the rabbits are ontop of me i take the FAC air, if they're out in the middle of the field then its the rimmy,simple as that.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Davyo

[bedwards1966]

I think its a dangerous assumption to think you will never have as richocet(subs),sorry but thats my opinion.You could get over confident that the backstop will hault the bullet, but as stated earlier what if it hit a pebble or a stone in the backstop.The first time i heard mine go off(and there was a suitable backstop) it seriously made me rethink my next shots.I tend to pull out of more shots after that because i'm constantly thinking what if?I also use FAC air and .22lr and both have their benifits & i dont think they are any better that each other.Obviousley if your tying to take a 80mtr shot with an FAC air and you also have a rimmy, then you've selected the wrong tool for the job.If the rabbits are ontop of me i take the FAC air, if they're out in the middle of the field then its the rimmy,simple as that.

 

You are quite right, you can't ever be certain that you won't have a ricochet, as already said it can ricochet from inside the animal itself (not much you can do about that), it may miss the animal or pass through the animal and hit something unseen.

 

The thing is, it's better to be aware of how to shoot safely and make a choice as to whether the shot is safe or not (and then, while never impossible, they are highly unlikely) than to adopt the approach which some seem to take of just using a lower powered round and not thinking about the danger of ricochet. That is generally the more dangerous approach.

[theoben fenman]

You are quite right, you can't ever be certain that you won't have a ricochet, as already said it can ricochet from inside the animal itself (not much you can do about that), it may miss the animal or pass through the animal and hit something unseen.

 

The thing is, it's better to be aware of how to shoot safely and make a choice as to whether the shot is safe or not (and then, while never impossible, they are highly unlikely) than to adopt the approach which some seem to take of just using a lower powered round and not thinking about the danger of ricochet. That is generally the more dangerous approach.

 

Exactly which has been my thing all along and I expect the unexpected ricochet thus making it expected (confused yet) and therefore take safer shots. The only ricochets I've had were when I was shooting at wood and It pinged back and hit a wall to my right. That was unexpected and happilly no one was hurt.

 

Why not go for less on an fac, ok you dont need the biggest round but I still cant figure out why people use fac air over a simple .22lr which is about £200 pound cheaper as a benchmark.

[Brisa]

I use FAC air (variation in for .22 rimfire now) an my shooting partner uses his .22lr cz and both have thier merits for sure. There is shots he isn't comfortable taking due to various risks which I will be safe to take with my 30ftlb daystate. If i'm shooting in a vehicle I will always take my air rifle even when I get the ruger through.

[TCarn]

Having read this thread which appears to go off in various directions I think the OP has stated the case in point, FAC air used on safety grounds where it is unsafe to use a rimfire.

I would agree that both FAC air and rimfire rounds correctly placed will dispatch the quarry, however the rimfire must win out on accuracy and energy over the longer distance, that said the FAC air is the only one for any elevated shots.

 

Why not go for less on an fac, ok you dont need the biggest round but I still cant figure out why people use fac air over a simple .22lr which is about £200 pound cheaper as a benchmark.

 

I think that has been well answered, pure and simple, safety, risk of ricochets, which is why I refused the .22lr and chose an HMR and I am now looking to purchase an FAC air to use where it is unsafe to use the HMR. I am aware that all rounds can ricochet but with the HMR the danger is reduced and I can live with the extra noise, the other factor is with the HMR you don't wound.

[Salop Matt]

For me I got rid of my .22lr - it was my (upto)>70 yard rabbit gun! But after owning it for 6 weeks and even getting Ricochets off the side of millitary aircraft hangers with deep turf and soil coverings and 40+ft high, now if that isnt a safe backstop I dont know what is. It was like shooting against the base of a big cliff ! So although I loved the gun and shot well with it, it had to go as I had no faith in it !

 

I now have my FAC daystate 30ftlb and can take rabbits at 70 yards and shoot up hill which I couldnt do with my .22lr ! For me now I really dont see the point in a .22lr. I can hold as many pellets as I so wish so no ammo restrictions, spare mags are a simlar price ammo is cheaper and I already had my charging gear so no extra cost there really also my 12ltr dive bottle is only £2 to fill

 

Granted the FAC air isnt 100% ricochet free but its ALOT less likely !

[bedwards1966]

For me I got rid of my .22lr - it was my (upto)>70 yard rabbit gun! But after owning it for 6 weeks and even getting Ricochets off the side of millitary aircraft hangers with deep turf and soil coverings and 40+ft high, now if that isnt a safe backstop I dont know what is. It was like shooting against the base of a big cliff ! So although I loved the gun and shot well with it, it had to go as I had no faith in it !

 

I now have my FAC daystate 30ftlb and can take rabbits at 70 yards and shoot up hill which I couldnt do with my .22lr ! For me now I really dont see the point in a .22lr. I can hold as many pellets as I so wish so no ammo restrictions, spare mags are a simlar price ammo is cheaper and I already had my charging gear so no extra cost there really also my 12ltr dive bottle is only £2 to fill

 

Granted the FAC air isnt 100% ricochet free but its ALOT less likely !

 

Well obviously you've found FAC air to be far more suitable for your needs, but the old .22lr is one of the most common and popular rounds out there. It has it's uses.

The ammo is cheap, you just buy it and stick it in the gun and shoot. It's less fiddly than those awful little air-gun pellets that bend if your rough with them, and if you allow for the time, cost and hassle of refilling air tanks, running out if you shoot enough etc then at about 8p per shot the .22lr rounds are far better. You really can't break the bank with them, you might work out that they cost 1.228 pence more, but the difference will be insignificant.

As it's about as quiet as an air-gun with subsonic rounds, it's still ideal where noise is an issue.

Plus the guns are far cheaper - an accurate and reliable .22lr can be picked up, with a mod and scope, for £150! That alone is a great thing about them.

Then have far better ballistics - less affected by wind, more accurate, and they do have a longer range. Most people seem to use them to about 70 yards, I push mine further, well past air-gun ranges, it can be done.

Plus then when you actually shoot something it has far more energy, which is good for humane reasons. I'd rather deliver 70 ft lb's into a rabbit in a non vital area after messing up a long shot that a low 20.

While they are far from perfect, they certainly have a point.

[simon6ppc]

well i certainly got some replys to this.but to be honest 20 years ago there seemed to be more rabbits were i come from out in fields miles away from no were,thats were a subsonic bullet was handy,but most of my rabbit shooting these days is more urban so thats why i use the fac air more and as its more enjoyable to me,but like you guys say even a air rifle can bounce a pellet and has to be watched. thanks any way.....

[Davyo]

well i certainly got some replys to this.but to be honest 20 years ago there seemed to be more rabbits were i come from out in fields miles away from no were,thats were a subsonic bullet was handy,but most of my rabbit shooting these days is more urban so thats why i use the fac air more and as its more enjoyable to me,but like you guys say even a air rifle can bounce a pellet and has to be watched. thanks any way.....

 

Simon6ppc, the most important thing 'is you get out and enjoy joy yourself & be safe & be comfortable with what ever you shoot with'.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Davyo

[crazyfrog]

I don't intend repeating any of the comments already made as such, however my take on this is this.

 

I use sub 12ft lb when required, one of my permissions is a football stadium with stands where the ferals love to roost, there are also rabbits that love to score goals, This permission is in the middle of a town so would only use sub 12ft lb....

 

One of my other permissions is about 850 acres of fields, woods etc. I use my sub 12 ft lb Daystate MK4 MCT IS in and around the farm buildings, I use my .410 Mossberg Hushpower in the same areas, I also use the .410 in some of the woods after the tree rats and woodies.

 

I use the 12 Gauge on the fields, I use the .22 LR on all open areas and use my .17 HMR as well when reaching out further.

 

When targeting Fox or Roe then the .223 comes out to play.

 

But all of these are used as and when that particular calibre is needed, it is all done in as safe a way as possible.

 

When I get into my car and drive along the same road every day the driving circumstances are never the same two days running and I have to constantly risk assess my surroundings, a dog on a lead, a dog off a lead, a kid on a push bike, the point I am getting to is that with all the different rifles I constantly risk assess everything as I go and take the shot if safe to do so.

 

I use the rifle required for the job in hand and use it within it's limitations, whether that be not using the sub 12ft lb over 35 yards, or not using the .17 hmr in a built up area etc etc. Safety Safety Safety............

[simon6ppc]

i totaly agree pal, ive had a fire arms for 25 years,i ave a pass to shoot on united utilities farms and land,and must do fox shooting on another 40 farms or small holdings were i live, and ave never put a bullet out of place yet,ps i mite of put a letter out of place on ere as i am new to the internet but i am getting better,i just try to put a simple question on ere and every one seems to think i shoot fac air in trees and bullets at magpies etc.

Edited August 16, 2012 by simon6ppc