bruno22rf Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Sorry tomhw100 but I have to agree with bedwards1966 on this one-a farmmer lets you on his land to do a job pure and simple and the vast majority of these guys only associate Airguns with the guns they may have messed around with as kids-unaware of the huge advances made over the last decade or so.That said-there are very few situations where Airguns,even FAC,will prove more effective than a powder burner-taking into account the range of ammo available to the rimfire user-which,with a mod and subs,is quieter than most Airguns as well as carrying far more power.I enjoy using my S400 far more than my rimmy but when vermin needs controlling i'm afraid it has to be the bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Farmers aren't stupid and appreciate the safety aspect of airguns over powder burners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoben fenman Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Farmers aren't stupid and appreciate the safety aspect of airguns over powder burners. Not there not stupid but they want the job done soonish with you having to creep up to 25-30ms as oppose to rimmys that can take shots a 100s of ms. Someone explain how you can enhance safety. Your either safe or unsafe thick line that you cant be either side on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 You enhance safety by minimising the amount of energy carried forwards by an unexpected ricochet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 What a ridiculous comment ....I know of no land owners that would class an Airgun as a joke and I have perms off 6 farmers who are more than happy for us to use airguns as well as shotguns. Where do you get this information!? You think? perhaps your view is swayed by your permissions? its a lot easier to get permission using shotguns and firearms round here that for 100% certain. aiguns and thier users have a bad reputation, wright or wrong its a fact non the less. I say that as a landowner with 90% of my neighbours being the same, i generally have to introduce the very idea of an airgun being used to many. Suppose a lot has to do with your location Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Perhaps the people you know are happy with them, but clearly not all. If two people approached you, both with experience/references/availability etc all being equal, the difference being one had an air-gun and had to dress up in cammo and crawl along to get within 30 yards of a rabbit, probably can't shoot straight, and has a higher chance of wounding it, and one had a real gun who could just turn up and take them out from at least twice as far away and have a better chance of a clean kill and have many more pests controlled, who would you choose? Also, having a FAC is a way of showing that your likely to be trustworthy, and not have a criminal background. Someone with just an air-gun doesn't have that, is there a reason why they can't get one? That can be a major concern on farms with valuable equipment, it's good to have an idea of someone's trustworthiness. Other things can come into effect, but having someone with real tools that do the job properly over something that is so limited and less humane is generally a no-brainer. Lol real guns my FAC 40ftlbs can take rabbits cleanly and humanely to 70yards no prob....so no I don't have to get 30 yards you shouldn't tar all airgunners with the same brush I ave FAC Airgun and shotgun on one of my biggest perms(1500 acres) we arnt loud to use rimmys. Ive controlled rabbits for years and years effectively with no qualms over 6 farms with airguns. Why can't air gunners shoot straight!? I can honestly say now I've got my FAC Airgun I have no need for a rimmy just for an extra 20-30 yards or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 You think? perhaps your view is swayed by your permissions? its a lot easier to get permission using shotguns and firearms round here that for 100% certain. aiguns and thier users have a bad reputation, wright or wrong its a fact non the less. I say that as a landowner with 90% of my neighbours being the same, i generally have to introduce the very idea of an airgun being used to many. Suppose a lot has to do with your location Maybe so I don't think airguns should be merely written off as the weapon of yobs and hooligans though. They are a very effective tool for pest control. I do agree that rimmys are the best tool for rabbits,I just have no need for one ow I have my daystate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon6ppc Posted August 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) Yes but often without proof farmers dont respect them and I have said country dwelers not essex which makes a bit of a difference without getting personal! You should only shoot against a safe backstop so I dont really know what your talking about with pellets missing the tree and entering eyes. This is my exact point any gun can be dangerous if the owner is dangerous. An fac is cheaper and unless your worried about noise more effective! i asked a question about what you guys would use the most for shooting rabbits,either a fac air or rimfire, not about shooting magpies in trees with fac guns, 20 years ago i did like the rimfire, but now a days shooting rabbits on the GROUND i feel like i get just as many with alot more enjoyment thats all.. Edited August 12, 2012 by simon6ppc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Farmers aren't stupid and appreciate the safety aspect of airguns over powder burners. Used by safe, responsible shooters a real rifle is just as safe as an air-gun. I'd be far happier shooting on a piece of land with a safe shot using a .50BMG than some irresponsible air-gun owner taking dangerous shots. While it can be true that some farmers know nothing about rifle shooting, I think that most are aware that used safely they are safe. You enhance safety by minimising the amount of energy carried forwards by an unexpected ricochet. A safe shot is one taken into a suitable backstop. It's tempting to push the safety limits and do something like shoot on ground that is too hard/stony, but minimizing the energy used is not a way of enhancing safety, that is done by deciding where you direct that energy. Lol real guns my FAC 40ftlbs can take rabbits cleanly and humanely to 70yards no prob....so no I don't have to get 30 yards you shouldn't tar all airgunners with the same brush I ave FAC Airgun and shotgun on one of my biggest perms(1500 acres) we arnt loud to use rimmys. Ive controlled rabbits for years and years effectively with no qualms over 6 farms with airguns. Why can't air gunners shoot straight!? I can honestly say now I've got my FAC Airgun I have no need for a rimmy just for an extra 20-30 yards or so. Yes, FAC air-guns can be effective. But they are still air-guns, making the distinction between a sub 12 thing and an FAC one is asking a bit too much. I don't know what percentage of air-guns are at FAC levels, but it won't be high, so speaking of air-gunners it's quite reasonable to be speaking of those that are under 12 ft lb's. Hence in most cases they do need to get within 30 yards. While it certainly does not apply to all air-gunners, I think that it's true to say many of them can't shoot straight. If they were into shooting enough to become good, they'd upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoben fenman Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 You enhance safety by minimising the amount of energy carried forwards by an unexpected ricochet. You cant have an unexpected ricochet. If you shoot safely it cant happen. As i've said we know that airguns can do the job but they do have a label of being used by irresponible people and without an fac of rifle or air rifle you dont have referees and a criminal record check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 This is wondering off all over the place and as usual it is getting to be "what I use"................ BOTH have their uses, but as I said earlier..... "They are NOT the same, so it isn't a matter of what you prefer, it is a matter of what is best for any specific job!" ATB!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 You cant have an unexpected ricochet. If you shoot safely it cant happen. As i've said we know that airguns can do the job but they do have a label of being used by irresponible people and without an fac of rifle or air rifle you dont have referees and a criminal record check. Yes i see your point but you can have an unexpected ricochet with any gun and it should be thought about before the shot is taken as it will still happen now and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) Lol real guns my FAC 40ftlbs can take rabbits cleanly and humanely to 70yards no prob....so no I don't have to get 30 yards you shouldn't tar all airgunners with the same brush I ave FAC Airgun and shotgun on one of my biggest perms(1500 acres) we arnt loud to use rimmys. Ive controlled rabbits for years and years effectively with no qualms over 6 farms with airguns. Why can't air gunners shoot straight!? I can honestly say now I've got my FAC Airgun I have no need for a rimmy just for an extra 20-30 yards or so. actually 70yds is a problem its a hard shot that takes experiance, practice and the right conditions. .22 rf shots are similar at that range 70yds and 20-30yds further for sure. The basic balistics proves this as much or more the shooters claim /boast Edited August 13, 2012 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Sorry folks but this thread is becoming rediculous now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoben fenman Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Yes i see your point but you can have an unexpected ricochet with any gun and it should be thought about before the shot is taken as it will still happen now and again Answer ze questions! How can you have an unexpected ricochet, if you shoot safely then how? I dont care about energy afterwards how do you get this unexpected ricochet? HOW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 actually 70yds is a problem its a hard shot that takes experiance, practice and the right conditions. .22 rf shots are similar at that range 70yds and 20-30yds further for sure. The basic balistics proves this as much or more the shooters claim /boast Are you suggesting I'm bull******** then Kent? It's not a claim/boast I can consistently shoot rabbits at 70 yards with my daystate. Some obviously can't and I agree but that's the same with all shooting calibres. If your a **** shot you won't be ale to shoot at distance Are you suggesting I'm lying then Kent? It's not a claim/boast I can consistently shoot rabbits at 70 yards with my daystate. Some obviously can't and I agree but that's the same with all shooting calibres.I agree If your a poo shot you won't be able to shoot at distance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Answer ze questions! How can you have an unexpected ricochet, if you shoot safely then how? I dont care about energy afterwards how do you get this unexpected ricochet? HOW? Maybe a stone just under the surface of the ground or glance off a tree root even after the bullet has passed through the rabbit it can still ricochet behind. That's why you need to look at the more distant backdrop before you take the shot, in case it might happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Answer ze questions! How can you have an unexpected ricochet, if you shoot safely then how? I dont care about energy afterwards how do you get this unexpected ricochet? HOW? how about if you shoot at a rabbit that is 70 yards away with your fac air and as you squeeze the trigger the rabbit moves before the pellet gets there?? just a thought colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) how about if you shoot at a rabbit that is 70 yards away with your fac air and as you squeeze the trigger the rabbit moves before the pellet gets there?? just a thought colin What you mean the same as it could with a rimfire resulting in you mis******** it? What a rubbish swear filter lol it said miss-hitting! That could happen with a sub 12lber at normal ranges anyway I don't get your point Edited August 13, 2012 by tomhw100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 This thread is going no where now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 What you mean the same as it could with a rimfire resulting in you mis******** it? What a rubbish swear filter lol it said miss-hitting! That could happen with a sub 12lber at normal ranges anyway I don't get your point yes can happen with any gun but answering to the question how can you have an unexpected ricochet not have a dig chap colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Sorry mate my apologies I got the wrong end of the stick...this thread has gone off at a tangent though lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Are you suggesting I'm bull******** then Kent? It's not a claim/boast I can consistently shoot rabbits at 70 yards with my daystate. Some obviously can't and I agree but that's the same with all shooting calibres. If your a **** shot you won't be ale to shoot at distance Your obviously a bit tetchy about your claim- but i suggest you read what i actually wrote before you defend yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Answer ze questions! How can you have an unexpected ricochet, if you shoot safely then how? I dont care about energy afterwards how do you get this unexpected ricochet? HOW? I have had .22 bullets ricochet off rabbits heads on rare occasions, unseen twigs and stems, stones hidden just under the grounds surface totally invisible to the observer. If your saying you have never had one then you will when you have shot some more. Do you never lamp? are there no stones or pebbles at all period on your ground ? before you take the shot you weigh up the backstop but you also should way up were the shot might end up if things go wrong. This morning i have been waiting out with a centrefire for a fox. I wont go into bullet and calibre choice coz it will probebly start anther debate LOL but suffice to say ricochet potential is far less than a .22 sub. Towards the end of the session i planned on shooting any of the crows that landed within range. Three did and all had visible ground rising behind them, fresh mowed - yet all posed to great a risk in my assesment from the potential angle changes from a freaky ricochet either to stock or the farmhouse. Can we always ***** our backstops with a trowel? can we detect every little twig etc? No we cant thats why shot assesment needs to account for the unexpected ricochet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Richocets don't happen do they http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ShV7cii0aY Bet he would have preferred that in FAC air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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