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clay shooting lesson today = selling my new gun!


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To be fair if a bloke is coaching people at national level I would expect most of his clients have their own gun. As said before it depends at the level at which you are looking to learn. Intro to the sport, yes, ideal, BASC/CPSA spot on.

Looking to get to national/international level or be genuinely competitive domesticall then a specialist coach (who probably has no formal qualls but lots of recommendations) is the way to progress. Of the top level coaches I know, none of them have a gun loan facility as far as I am aware! It's certainly not something I have ever been asked for.

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Peter, a reply of sorts to your Olympic coaches that are Olympians themselves, let's see.

Peter Croft, Ian Peel, Richard Faulds, Ahmed Al Maktoum, Peter Bentley, Richard Brickell, without starting on other countries like Italy.

Does that help?

Of course I would not expect a BASC coach to know that, as you rightly say, there are no Olympic pheasants in the mix at the moment.

Ed is quite right that these elite coaches would not be expected to have loan guns, the people that go to them are wanting to shave off the odd point that they miss in competition rather than someone whose personal best is 15/100.

But then I could be wrong.

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Peter, a reply of sorts to your Olympic coaches that are Olympians themselves, let's see.

Peter Croft, Ian Peel, Richard Faulds, Ahmed Al Maktoum, Peter Bentley, Richard Brickell, without starting on other countries like Italy.

Does that help?

Of course I would not expect a BASC coach to know that, as you rightly say, there are no Olympic pheasants in the mix at the moment.

Ed is quite right that these elite coaches would not be expected to have loan guns, the people that go to them are wanting to shave off the odd point that they miss in competition rather than someone whose personal best is 15/100.

But then I could be wrong.

*Kevin Gill

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I have refrained from posting on this topic for some time but I do have to say that some of you have got some very large heads and ego's to massage. Most of you that have posted stupid replies have not bothered to tell us how well you are qualified in the subject matter.

I personally know some very fine BASC, CPSA and APSI coaches,some who have coached people to International wins, Duncan Lawton is a CPSA level 1 coach, unfortunately I also know some very poor ones also, but it is wrong to use a broad brush and say ALL are rubbish. I know some very fine coaches who have no qualifications at all but give superb advice and are excellent coaches. I also know World Champions who are dreadful coaches and by their own admission haven't got the time or patience to bother coaching.

I think you will find that a good many lefthanders can shoot to a very high standard using guns having cast off.

Finally if you are going to try and impress by using name dropping at least try and get the names right, it is PAUL Bentley.

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I have refrained from posting on this topic for some time but I do have to say that some of you have got some very large heads and ego's to massage. Most of you that have posted stupid replies have not bothered to tell us how well you are qualified in the subject matter.

I personally know some very fine BASC, CPSA and APSI coaches,some who have coached people to International wins, Duncan Lawton is a CPSA level 1 coach, unfortunately I also know some very poor ones also, but it is wrong to use a broad brush and say ALL are rubbish. I know some very fine coaches who have no qualifications at all but give superb advice and are excellent coaches. I also know World Champions who are dreadful coaches and by their own admission haven't got the time or patience to bother coaching.

I think you will find that a good many lefthanders can shoot to a very high standard using guns having cast off.

Finally if you are going to try and impress by using name dropping at least try and get the names right, it is PAUL Bentley.

 

+1 Well said Salopian

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I have refrained from posting on this topic for some time but I do have to say that some of you have got some very large heads and ego's to massage. Most of you that have posted stupid replies have not bothered to tell us how well you are qualified in the subject matter.

I personally know some very fine BASC, CPSA and APSI coaches,some who have coached people to International wins, Duncan Lawton is a CPSA level 1 coach, unfortunately I also know some very poor ones also, but it is wrong to use a broad brush and say ALL are rubbish. I know some very fine coaches who have no qualifications at all but give superb advice and are excellent coaches. I also know World Champions who are dreadful coaches and by their own admission haven't got the time or patience to bother coaching.

I think you will find that a good many lefthanders can shoot to a very high standard using guns having cast off.

Finally if you are going to try and impress by using name dropping at least try and get the names right, it is PAUL Bentley.

er..I think if this is aimed at me I said Paul Bentley......was'nt meant as a name drop for the sake of it but 'cos I thought some folk on here may know him better than I.

off to massage ego.

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I personally know some very fine BASC, CPSA and APSI coaches,some who have coached people to International wins, Duncan Lawton is a CPSA level 1 coach, unfortunately I also know some very poor ones also, but it is wrong to use a broad brush and say ALL are rubbish. I know some very fine coaches who have no qualifications at all but give superb advice and are excellent coaches. I also know World Champions who are dreadful coaches and by their own admission haven't got the time or patience to bother coaching.

 

 

But this goes to prove my point, you do have to go off the coaches individual reputation & not just because they have a badge or championship to their name.

 

While it is wrong to use a broad brush on individuals, the badges themselves are only as good as the lowest common denominator, if the badges let poor ones through then they offer no meaningful guarantees of a good coach and are worthless. So I suspect that some of the comments were aimed at what the badge means rather than the all the individuals that actually wear them, I know mine comments were.

 

Show me a good coach and he/she is a good coach irrespective of having a badge or not.

Show me someone with a badge and I have not got a clue whether he/she is good or not, that kind of defeats the object of the badge in the first place.

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But this goes to prove my point, you do have to go off the coaches individual reputation & not just because they have a badge or championship to their name.

 

While it is wrong to use a broad brush on individuals, the badges themselves are only as good as the lowest common denominator, if the badges let poor ones through then they offer no meaningful guarantees of a good coach and are worthless. So I suspect that some of the comments were aimed at what the badge means rather than the all the individuals that actually wear them, I know mine comments were.

 

Show me a good coach and he/she is a good coach irrespective of having a badge or not.

Show me someone with a badge and I have not got a clue whether he/she is good or not, that kind of defeats the object of the badge in the first place.

 

i agree 100%

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It is a shame that some badged coaches let others with similar qualifications down.

 

I can only speak from a BASC point of view. The BASC coaches are not given the Award, they have to work very hard, sometimes for many years to attain the 'Badge' and the Skeet vest, and therefore why would they not be proud to wear their hard earned skeet vest?

 

They have to work with their mentor in the the workplace for considerable time before the mentor decides they are ready to go forward for Pre -assessment day. This process is not a given, and many fall at the first hurdle and are sent back to their mentor for further experience. They are assessed on their coaching ability with clients, shooting skills and methods of Shooting, trap safety and firearms law.

 

If they meet the criteria at this point, they are sent away with a list of areas that they need to work on before comming for their final assessments. They need to deliver three professional lessons in a row, one adult male, one adult female and one young shot - (grannies are not mandatory). If the lesson is not delivered to the standards set or any infrindgements of safety are identifed by the qualified Assessors, then they do not meet the criteria and the trainee coaches go back to square one - Tough Stuff! I really feel for those trainees who manage to get two lessons delivered to standard and then dont achieve the third, they now have to do three further lessons.

 

If they manage to deliver three lessons to standard, with Qualified A1 Assessors they can then finalise their City and Guild Portfolio to achieve National recognition of their skills, this achievement will stay with them for a lifetime. The BASC Accreditation is conducted every three years, where each coach is assessed by our Qualifed Assessors delivering a lesson - if they do not meet the cirteria, then they do not remian on the accredited list.

 

Well they may not be Olympic Coaches, but they have worked hard for their Award. Many 'Other Coaches' have tried to meet the standards set by BASC, and many have not been up to task.

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I have been to 2 passes and then failed the third. At the time I thought it was a little trivial to fail me on a "Stance fault" But it made me try harder and a little later I passed the required 3 in a row. Having passed I then realised that all pieces of the Programme should and must be delivered in the tried and tested manner, it helps to put in a place a standard.

 

The CPSA approach is equally as vigerous, perhaps more aimed towards clay shooting, but again a procedure that providing it is kept to, will set a standard.

 

All BASC Coaches if wearing their Skeet Vests have their name embroidered on the front. If we are not doing a good job (especially at have ago game fairs) find the Line Chief and report the failure. I for one do not want to be placed in the same catergory as someone that is not doing the job. I have worked hard to attain my "Qualifications" and want to be able to use them with the confidence that they are well respected and acceppted.

 

I have my name embroidered on my "lairy" CPSA Skeet Vest, not to "Big me up" as some might think, but to make me accountable.

 

Why have I gone this route? well it was something I wanted to do but never had the time when I was working, but now in retirement, I have the time to make the commitment that is required, and the want to put something back into the sport that I enjoy.

 

End of rant and last comment from me on what has been a very interesting and thought provoking thread.

 

PS

 

well maybe one more comment

 

Clothes do not maketh the man ( A Skeet Vest covered in Qualification badges ) :hmm:

 

Do not judge a book by it's cover ( A Skeet Vest covered in Qualification badges) :lol:

Edited by bakerboy
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It is a shame that some badged coaches let others with similar qualifications down.

 

I can only speak from a BASC point of view. The BASC coaches are not given the Award, they have to work very hard, sometimes for many years to attain the 'Badge' and the Skeet vest, and therefore why would they not be proud to wear their hard earned skeet vest?

 

They have to work with their mentor in the the workplace for considerable time before the mentor decides they are ready to go forward for Pre -assessment day. This process is not a given, and many fall at the first hurdle and are sent back to their mentor for further experience. They are assessed on their coaching ability with clients, shooting skills and methods of Shooting, trap safety and firearms law.

 

If they meet the criteria at this point, they are sent away with a list of areas that they need to work on before comming for their final assessments. They need to deliver three professional lessons in a row, one adult male, one adult female and one young shot - (grannies are not mandatory). If the lesson is not delivered to the standards set or any infrindgements of safety are identifed by the qualified Assessors, then they do not meet the criteria and the trainee coaches go back to square one - Tough Stuff! I really feel for those trainees who manage to get two lessons delivered to standard and then dont achieve the third, they now have to do three further lessons.

 

If they manage to deliver three lessons to standard, with Qualified A1 Assessors they can then finalise their City and Guild Portfolio to achieve National recognition of their skills, this achievement will stay with them for a lifetime. The BASC Accreditation is conducted every three years, where each coach is assessed by our Qualifed Assessors delivering a lesson - if they do not meet the cirteria, then they do not remian on the accredited list.

 

Well they may not be Olympic Coaches, but they have worked hard for their Award. Many 'Other Coaches' have tried to meet the standards set by BASC, and many have not been up to task.

 

That's reassuring, from some of the earlier posts you'd think they were giving these qualifications away with a box of cartridges. Based on this criteria I would certainly use a BASC coach to teach me the basics of good technique.

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Thank you, Peter Marshall and Bakerboy for helping to set the record straight.

Just one small point Bakerboy, BASC do not do 'have a go ' stands, every lesson is structured to suit the requirements of the customer/ pupil, whether they are a complete novice or an experienced shot with a problem that they wish to be diagnosed and rectified.

Trainee coaches undergoing assessment are not allowed to be examined whilst coaching an experienced shot to avoid any possibility of the pupil (shot) assisting the candidate by instinctively using acquired skills to make a successful shot, the candidate MUST teach the pupil to shoot.

I am a BASC qualified coach, (actually the very first to meet the criteria required City & Guilds) , I am a Senior CPSA Coach in all disciplines, a founder member of APSI, A founder member of the oldest coaching organisation The Guild of Shooting Instructors, I still coach in Italy, Australia, & America, I have won competitions in all of those countries , I love coaching and assisting people to improve, but it makes me very angry to be tarred with this broad brush that has been used on this thread.

If you have a problem with your shooting and you think I can help please do not hesitate to ask.

P.S. My skeet jackets are hanging up and my badges and trophies are in the loft.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Salopian I have certainly seen BASC running "have a go" stands at game fairs and bakerboy is a BASC qualified coach...... Personally I think the low cost have a go stands, corporate days, hen and stag do's are very very important to introducing the general public to the fun, enjoyment and safety of gun use and shooting especially since other target shooting oppertunities are so limited........

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Haha timps. I told you basc coach's know their stuff and mine told me Snap caps DO work. Just shows your never to old to learn.

 

INCOMING

 

 

I will give that one a 9 out of 10 for that post :good: , yes this thread has totally convinced me that ALL BASC coaches know their stuff and snap caps do work.

How could I have doubted it, it’s a miracle, hallelujah, praise be...

The clinching factor that they always know their stuff was one BASC coach saying they have ‘have a go’ stands and the other says they don’t. :ermm::eh:

 

This thread shows the united front of the BASC view on snap caps that I was craving, I assume it’s a major part of their mentor program, how could I have been so wrong.

 

Now if only we could persuade the gunsmith from GMK to have used them on my gun when he fitted a new locking bolt and timed the ejectors at the Beretta worlds. Oh and stop the BASC coach I regularly see allowing students to have all the weight on the back foot whilst leaning back we would be at one with the world.

 

I have missed our little chats, much love big hugs and kisses xxx

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Yes sorry about the 9 but your imaginary pub troll was a 10 and this one is not as good in the troll stakes so it had to be lower.

 

If you would be kind enough to enlighten me which part of this thread proves your point and to that fact what your point actually is dearest .

Even the people supporting BASC coaches admit there are bad ones which is all I ever said to you in the first place.

 

The only dispute is ‘are they all bad’ which is something I have never said as I have not seen them all coach so I would not make that assumption. Neither would I make the assumption that they automatically know what they are talking about just because they have a badge or nice vest.

It’s called thinking for one’s self and evaluating the facts Sweetie.

Missing you already xx

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nah not coming out of the closet, but isn't that how you expect Team Vaseline to speak, I figured you might understand me better if I tried and spoke the lingo.

 

So getting back to your post, your point that was proven beyond all reasonable doubt was highlighted in which post again?

 

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Only 9 out of 10 when it conclusively proves my point beyond all reasonable doubt. I think your being a bit tight.

 

I didn't really want to post an 'I told you so' reply but there seems little else to say.

 

Ahhh, sweet vindication at last.

 

GOD BLESS BASC COACH'S.

 

ATB 425

 

What is your point?

 

I can say without the slightest hesitation that BASC does not do 'Have a go' stands. BASC qualified coaches may be involved in 'such lines' in their own private capacity, but not for BASC.

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What is your point?

 

I can say without the slightest hesitation that BASC does not do 'Have a go' stands. BASC qualified coaches may be involved in 'such lines' in their own private capacity, but not for BASC.

What about at the game fair, where there are BASC flags and banners all over them?

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