Bear68 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 There is an article in the current Fieldsports magazine saying that you should only use plastic wads if your gun has extended forcing cones (like my Browning 525), as fibre wads don't create a good enough seal to produce a good pattern. A number of clay grounds and gameshoots don't allow the use of plastic wads, and I'm not keen on them either. Has anyone actually tried different types of wads on a pattern plate to see if this argument holds water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I believe Sporting Gun did a test/article on this very thing and there does seem to be a problem, apparently every so often the patterns were visibly poo. My comp gun has ext forcing cones in common with a great many others and I hate fibre/felt shells. They kick more and try as I might can't get consistent smokes even on easyish birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 My gun is heavily over bored and hates fibres. Hence why I don't shoot gamefairs. Any serious clay ground allows plas wads so it's no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 My gun is heavily over bored and hates fibres. Hence why I don't shoot gamefairs. Any serious clay ground allows plas wads so it's no big deal. Would this be 'over-bored' as in, for example, the later Browning 325 series with .738 bores and the Invector plus chokes? I ask because I don't think my 325 of this description has extended forcing cones. Are there two separate issues here? I did pose a question in this forum some time ago about the compatibility of overbored barrels and fibre wads but the consensus seemed to be that the two were o.k. together. I really wouldn't know myself, lacking the experience, skill, and necessary comparative knowledge to make a judgement. Anyone care to consider or re-consider this potential problem? Any clarification gratefully received. I should add that I shoot only fibre wads because of the rules at the grounds I frequent. Am I using the wrong gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Mine is .730 I believe, standard K80 spec. They are designed for competitive clays so fibre wads were not considered when they build them. Give them a try and see what you think- you may find your gun is ok with them. Or try and find a fibre with the thin plastic sealing disk- that works great. See what your gun likes- you may well be fine with all the current fibres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Shaw Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Mine is .730 I believe, standard K80 spec. Standard 12 gauge barrel size is .729" Ed so your not that much over, However lots of early Berettas (680 series) like most of mine were 18.3mm to 18.4 = .720 to .725 very tite and work very well with fibre's. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Don't rely on the .730 being right- that was just a figure floating around in my head!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Mine is .730 I believe, standard K80 spec. They are designed for competitive clays so fibre wads were not considered when they build them. Give them a try and see what you think- you may find your gun is ok with them. Or try and find a fibre with the thin plastic sealing disk- that works great. See what your gun likes- you may well be fine with all the current fibres. Thank you for your reply. Can you tell me what make(s) with this thin plastic sealing disc you have in mind? I'm afraid it's new to me. I use Hulls or Eleys or Gamebores. I don't think any of those have such a seal, but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Thank you for your reply. Can you tell me what make(s) with this thin plastic sealing disc you have in mind? I'm afraid it's new to me. I use Hulls or Eleys or Gamebores. I don't think any of those have such a seal, but I could be wrong. The thin plastic sealing disc is called an obturator and it replaces the overpowder card in a fibre wadded cartridge. http://claygame.co.uk/Cat24Page11SmallBoreGasSeals.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 The k 80 sporters are 18.6 internal bore. Reading the blurb on the DT11 the barrels are bored out even more and beretta reckon they are still ok with fibre wads. Never really noticed a difference with my 682 gold e between wad types,but i tend to use the same carts in plas wad aswell for consistency. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I think FOB fibres use a plastic obturator or whatever it's called. I've not spoke to anyone with a Dt11 about fibre wads but I suspect they designed it with the same view as krieghoff- they are competition guns and if they don't work with fibre no issue. I'd be amazed if they were any good with fibres.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 one of the main issues that affect pattern is speed. back off the speed with either plastic or fibre and the patterns start becoming beutiful, start hitting 1200fps or 1100fps at 2.5m is a gold standard speed. more speed opens up pattern, slower it becoms tighter. as for the plaswad v fibre debate, plastic wins hands down in all aspects. the only thing it isnt good at is environmental issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Our ground is fibre only but there again we are "Sunday" shooters and do it more for fun than anything else. I use an Ultra xs, dont know about the cones or anything but I'm happy with what I do with fibre, I suspect if I was a serious competitive shooter and the evidence proved that fibre was costing me targets then I would switch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retromlc Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 A friend and me used a pattern plate both with fibre and both had same chokes his a browning725 and mine an XS ultra prestige, his have longer forcing cones etc(I think) his patterns were much tighter than mine. Work that one out hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 one of the main issues that affect pattern is speed. back off the speed with either plastic or fibre and the patterns start becoming beutiful, start hitting 1200fps or 1100fps at 2.5m is a gold standard speed. more speed opens up pattern, slower it becoms tighter. as for the plaswad v fibre debate, plastic wins hands down in all aspects. the only thing it isnt good at is environmental issues. i remember reading an article in 2008 aboit the launch of bio-degradable plaswads. Did these not make it on the cartridge market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 i remember reading an article in 2008 aboit the launch of bio-degradable plaswads. Did these not make it on the cartridge market? Kent Champion cartridges made throughout the 90's and used by George Digweed had a biodegradable version available for a couple of quid extra. I recall buying a thou but didn't bother after that, they didn't seem as good as their normal plastic version. I'm sure the material is available still. As a matter of interest a friend of mine put a so called bio version in a transparent plastic bag with earth and hung it outside his garage; it did not perish for years so he threw it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Just a thought and appologies for going slightly off topic: If extended forcing cones are thought to be no good for fibre wads, is it assumed (by the same people) that using a 2/12 or 2 3/4 inch fibre wadded shell in a 3 or 3 1/2 inch magnum chamber would be even worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Just a thought and appologies for going slightly off topic: If extended forcing cones are thought to be no good for fibre wads, is it assumed (by the same people) that using a 2/12 or 2 3/4 inch fibre wadded shell in a 3 or 3 1/2 inch magnum chamber would be even worse? goo point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear68 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Thanks for the replies. My 525 has 3" chambers, so I guess I should ideally be looking for a 70mm cartridge with a plaswad. I'm mainly a game shooter, so will hav a look around and see whats available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Just a thought and appologies for going slightly off topic: If extended forcing cones are thought to be no good for fibre wads, is it assumed (by the same people) that using a 2/12 or 2 3/4 inch fibre wadded shell in a 3 or 3 1/2 inch magnum chamber would be even worse? Correct. Re photo degradable wads, Hull do them as an option on Sterling game. No detriment to the shell but they do take a long time to break down. Have used them before on pheasants and the teal challenge at grange, as there is no normal plas wad option. Worked well in both applications so no complaints here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoQuad Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) My SV10 has extended forcing cones and I have to shoot fibre wads on several of the grounds I use and for any game or rough shooting I do. I have tried CompX and Hull Superfasts on a pattern plate and the pattern was excellent with both in fibre and plastic. Suppose I ought to try some of the fibre game cartridges I use as well.. The FOB / Lyevale / Express cartridges that use a plastic obdurator in their fibre cartridges have caused some folk embarrassment on fibre only grounds and shoots so beware of them if the fibre only rule is strict these cartridges won't be accepted. Edited October 6, 2012 by SakoQuad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 I don't think it's extended cones that cause massive issues, more the well over bored barrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoQuad Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 I don't think it's extended cones that cause massive issues, more the well over bored barrels. That makes sense as whilst I haven't found extended forcing cones to be an issue I can see that over-bored barrels could be a problem with fibre wads. Presumably they would not expand laterally and never create a good or consistent seal in the barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Also bear in mind that the Sporting Gun test found something like one in eight or so shots gave pants patterns, not every single one. This is important because often people fire a single shot at a plate to check POI and spread and declare things fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Over bored gas semi autos also suffer when using fiber wad..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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